Confirmed with Link: You guys wanted it - Chance to play VS Bobby Ryan in BobbyVSBeerleaguers

[jbeck5]

You consistently and adamantly reiterated how good you and your beer league team was at hockey, so I can see the connection the poster is making



pretty self explanatory IMO, given your quote below..



If I'm repeating simply what you're saying, you should be able to understand the point FlapJackKing is trying to make. A speed burst isn't hockey; but add in some things related to hockey (skating WITH a puck, for instance), and everyone here and on your team would get schooled.

I said what because it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. If you don't think skating in a straight line is a drill that's fine. That's not my argument. My argument is that I have seen players not in the NHL who are faster than Bobby Ryan. I say "what" because that post has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

The argument going in circles is your doing.

I've been saying from the start that Ryan would school us if you add all these elements you mention...so you can't blame me for being confused as to what your side is arguing about.

 

[Othello*]

Pay attention. That was in response to someone claiming that guy in the accuracy shooting was your average beer leaguer. He clearly isn't. He looked like someone who's never played organized hockey.

Stop putting words in people's mouths.

Things I've said:

1) I've been on the ice with a couple players who are faster than Ryan.
2) my beer league is a lot better than the beer leaguers in those videos...especially the accuracy shooter.
3) the fact a person is in the NHL does not mean they are better at every single hockey skill than someone who is not in the NHL.

Argue against what I'm actually saying.

Careful man, salty posters on here will twist your words and say that you think you're better than Bobby at hockey.

 

[jbeck5]

Careful man, salty posters on here will twist your words and say that you think you're better than Bobby at hockey.

They already have.

 

[BondraTime]

I just think that everyone is overconfident or doesn't realize the difference between NHLer's and "beerleaguers".

The difference between NHLers and other pro players (guys better than 99.9% of beer and rec players) is gigantic. The chance that anyone is better at ANY skill compared to a guy like Bobby Ryan is very, very unlikely.

Again, that could be different for others, but I know in my beer and actual league (which I'd wager has just as much talent as the most in here), there is maybe 1 guy who could skate 1-1 with Ryan, and even then I doubt it.

I'm probably over-rating Ryan, or underselling us, by I just don't see it in my experience.

 

[BonkTastic]

Things I've said:

1) I've been on the ice with a couple players who are faster than Ryan.

Honest question: how do you know that they are faster than Bobby Ryan? Have you skated with Ryan, and therefore have first-hand knowledge you can apply to others? Have those couple of players you know ever skated with Ryan, and have anecdotal evidence of having been faster than him in person before?

I'm just curious as to what metric you are using here.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If I get picked, I'm going to say during the drill that my name is the username of one of the guys who keeps bragging on here. Then everyone will be like, "He sucks!"

"Hi Bobby! I'm jbeck5 from HFBOARDS! Prepare to get schooled!"

Seriously though, if anyone who entered on here makes it, you've got to give a shout out to HFSens on the video.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I think Jbeck makes a fine point I think the issue lies between what is a beer leaguer and what is a guy who was really good but not good enough to make the "show".

As a comparison I would say that there are amateurs who can out drive PGA players and there's guys who can drive the ball like 380 yards but they will never be as good as a pro player.

I think it's a comparable example in that there is one skill you're better at when you need to be consistently good at like 40 skills in golf to be worthwhile.

 

[jbeck5]

I just think that everyone is overconfident or doesn't realize the difference between NHLer's and "beerleaguers".

The difference between NHLers and other pro players (guys better than 99.9% of beer and rec players) is gigantic. The chance that anyone is better at ANY skill compared to a guy like Bobby Ryan is very, very unlikely.

Again, that could be different for others, but I know in my beer and actual league (which I'd wager has just as much talent as the most in here), there is maybe 1 guy who could skate 1-1 with Ryan, and even then I doubt it.

I'm probably over-rating Ryan, or underselling us, by I just don't see it in my experience.

We come to the same conclusion. There might be a guy or two in a beer league who can beat Ryan in a race.

The way I see it is there are guys who I've played with who played junior,college, got drafted to the NHL but never made it. Some of these guys got on the scene due to being really fast, but nothing else.

Whereas Ryan is where he is despite his skating. He didn't get drafted 2nd overall because he skates circles around people. It's because he can dangle like almost no one else, has size, can score goals, etc.

So to think a guy who was getting recognized only for his speed could beat a guy who made the NHL not for his speed...I don't think it's that impossible.

I see this argument along the lines of the coach argument. Just because a coach is in the NHL does not mean he knows more than an non NHL coach on a particular hockey related issue.

 

[jbeck5]

Honest question: how do you know that they are faster than Bobby Ryan? Have you skated with Ryan, and therefore have first-hand knowledge you can apply to others? Have those couple of players you know ever skated with Ryan, and have anecdotal evidence of having been faster than him in person before?

I'm just curious as to what metric you are using here.

I'm using a couple different metrics. I've been on the ice with guys who have been on the ice with Ryan. Like I said, I've been on the ice with Chris Neil. I can compare Ryan to Neil in terms of top speed...and than how those couple players are compared to Chris Neil.

I can also look at Ryan skating full speed between blue lines to calculate his speed and compare that way.

You combine the methods to get a more accurate prediction.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Pay attention. That was in response to someone claiming that guy in the accuracy shooting was your average beer leaguer. He clearly isn't. He looked like someone who's never played organized hockey.

Stop putting words in people's mouths.

Things I've said:

1) I've been on the ice with a couple players who are faster than Ryan.
2) my beer league is a lot better than the beer leaguers in those videos...especially the accuracy shooter.
3) the fact a person is in the NHL does not mean they are better at every single hockey skill than someone who is not in the NHL.

Argue against what I'm actually saying.

I said what because it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. If you don't think skating in a straight line is a drill that's fine. That's not my argument. My argument is that I have seen players not in the NHL who are faster than Bobby Ryan. I say "what" because that post has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

The argument going in circles is your doing.

I've been saying from the start that Ryan would school us if you add all these elements you mention...so you can't blame me for being confused as to what your side is arguing about.

My original observation was as an observer of a posting cycle that went back to the original Ryan thread.

In regards to your points:

1) Ya, as I pointed out in my original, completely-relevant-to-this-argument observation, is that you have a few jock buddies who think (or at least you think) they are faster than bobby. Agreed? Good.
2)For god sake, yes we all know that your beer league is filled with CHL and NCAA superstars. I also made this point.
3) I disagree with you. I think Bobby Ryan is better at pretty much every single facet of the game than your buddies, except for maybe fighting and, as you suggest, a straight line foot race. However I also happen to agree with FlapJackKing that a little foot race isn't a "hockey drill".

So, how is that putting words in anyone's mouth?

 

[BondraTime]

We come to the same conclusion. There might be a guy or two in a beer league who can beat Ryan in a race.

The way I see it is there are guys who I've played with who played junior,college, got drafted to the NHL but never made it. Some of these guys got on the scene due to being really fast, but nothing else.

Whereas Ryan is where he is despite his skating. He didn't get drafted 2nd overall because he skates circles around people. It's because he can dangle like almost no one else, has size, can score goals, etc.

So to think a guy who was getting recognized only for his speed could beat a guy who made the NHL not for his speed...I don't think it's that impossible.

I see this argument along the lines of the coach argument. Just because a coach is in the NHL does not mean he knows more than an non NHL coach on a particular hockey related issue.

They are the only ones who I wold consider having a chance, those 20-27 year old guys who are just after coming home from playing CHL/NCAA/Pro to play in a beer or Senior league.

I also play with quite a few in these boats and I still highly doubt any could beat him. Of course this is my experience, could be different for others, especially being in Ontario and other parts of Canada/States.

 

[jbeck5]

My original observation was as an observer of a posting cycle that went back to the original Ryan thread.

In regards to your points:

1) Ya, as I pointed out in my original, completely-relevant-to-this-argument observation, is that you have a few jock buddies who think (or at least you think) they are faster than bobby. Agreed? Good.
2)For god sake, yes we all know that your beer league is filled with CHL and NCAA superstars. I also made this point.
3) I disagree with you. I think Bobby Ryan is better at pretty much every single facet of the game than your buddies, except for maybe fighting and, as you suggest, a straight line foot race. However I also happen to agree with FlapJackKing that a little foot race isn't a "hockey drill".

So, how is that putting words in anyone's mouth?

1)I wouldn't call them jocks, but sure. They're in the sydney crosby hockey nerd mold.

2) ok.

3)How can you disagree with me, then potentially agree with me? The only things i suggested anyone could be better than ryan are fighting and a straight foot race. So what are you disagreeing with if you agree with that?

I never argued that a foot race is/isn't a significant drill...so why are people constantly making that argument to me?

 

[jbeck5]

They are the only ones who I wold consider having a chance, those 20-27 year old guys who are just after coming home from playing CHL/NCAA/Pro to play in a beer or Senior league.

I also play with quite a few in these boats and I still highly doubt any could beat him. Of course this is my experience, could be different for others, especially being in Ontario and other parts of Canada/States.

So we pretty much agree...except i go a step further and say they could potentially beat him.

Maybe i also just happen to have a couple more speedsters. Like i said, some of these guys were guys who were one of the fastest players on their junior teams. Bobby ryan wasn't one of the faster skaters on Owen Sound but i remember him being dominant at pretty much everything else.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

1)I wouldn't call them jocks, but sure. They're in the sydney crosby hockey nerd mold.

2) ok.

3)How can you disagree with me, then potentially agree with me? The only things i suggested anyone could be better than ryan are fighting and a straight foot race. So what are you disagreeing with if you agree with that?

I never argued that a foot race is/isn't a significant drill...so why are people constantly making that argument to me?

The key here is that FlapJack and I are arguing that a straight line foot race isn't really a hockey drill, thus, could be argued that Bobby is better at everything to do with hockey based on this context. However, removing that element from the argument and including straight line speed for the sake of the argument, then I agree that there is potential for a few of your buddies to match or beat Bobby. What I am saying, in a nutshell, is that straight line speed aside, Bobby would be better at just about everything. You are of a similar opinion on this I think.

That's why I can disagree, yet agree.

Bobby ryan wasn't one of the faster skaters on Owen Sound but i remember him being dominant at pretty much everything else.

Indeed.

 

[BonkTastic]

I'm using a couple different metrics. I've been on the ice with guys who have been on the ice with Ryan. Like I said, I've been on the ice with Chris Neil. I can compare Ryan to Neil in terms of top speed...and than how those couple players are compared to Chris Neil.

I can also look at Ryan skating full speed between blue lines to calculate his speed and compare that way.

You combine the methods to get a more accurate prediction.

So let me get this straight. I don't want to mis-represent the argument here.

1) "I've been on the ice with Chris Neil". (Like, what are we talking here? A charity game? Did he drop into a rec league or something? A Fantasy Hockey Camp? Do you think he was honestly going all-out in any of those scenarios?)

2) "I can compare Neil's 70% effort in a charity/rec-league/fantasy camp environment that I experienced, first hand, to Ryan's speed in an NHL game, from a distance". (that's honestly pretty amazing if you can do that. I don't think most scouts can do that.)

3) "I know guys in rec leagues who play top-speed/all-in all the time, and I've compared them to a below-average NHLer goofing around against amateurs, who I've then compared to a totally different player doing it in a real NHL game, and I can gather convincing data this way".

It's... look. I'm going to be honest - it's not the most reliable argument I've ever heard. If you are using Chris Neil in a toss-away game against rec-league players as the baseline for your argument, your argument kind of sucks. No offence... It's just, from a statistical perspective, a very poor data set.

 

[Indrew]

Let's just pretend for a second that Bobby Ryan makes 5 million dollars instead of 7.25. Subtract that weight off of his shoulders and your expectations and he instantly becomes faster than any beer leaguer around.

 

[Uchiha]

We're talking about ex Junior A/CIS/NCAA players whose best skill set is skating vs Ryan who sucks at skating. I know TONS that can beat Ryan in a race (where this argument originally started)

That's like stating some American Highschool basketball players are better free throw shooters than Shaq/Dwight/DeAndre/Drommond.

Again beating Ryan in a race is not outlandish.

 

[jbeck5]

So let me get this straight. I don't want to mis-represent the argument here.

1) "I've been on the ice with Chris Neil". (Like, what are we talking here? A charity game? Did he drop into a rec league or something? A Fantasy Hockey Camp? Do you think he was honestly going all-out in any of those scenarios?)

2) "I can compare Neil's 70% effort in a charity/rec-league/fantasy camp environment that I experienced, first hand, to Ryan's speed in an NHL game, from a distance". (that's honestly pretty amazing if you can do that. I don't think most scouts can do that.)

3) "I know guys in rec leagues who play top-speed/all-in all the time, and I've compared them to a below-average NHLer goofing around against amateurs, who I've then compared to a totally different player doing it in a real NHL game, and I can gather convincing data this way".

It's... look. I'm going to be honest - it's not the most reliable argument I've ever heard. If you are using Chris Neil in a toss-away game against rec-league players as the baseline for your argument, your argument kind of sucks. No offence... It's just, from a statistical perspective, a very poor data set.

ok, take a clip of ryan at the start of a shift going full stride between bluelines. Compare. you can get mathematical and fairly accurate. Use HD footage and do a frame by frame to get his exact time between the blue lines. Recreate yourself with a high quality camera preferably with slo mo capabilities. Boom. Science.

 

[Uchiha]

ok, take a clip of ryan at the start of a shift going full stride between bluelines. Compare. you can get mathematical and fairly accurate. Use HD footage and do a frame by frame to get his exact time between the blue lines. Recreate yourself with a high quality camera preferably with slo mo capabilities. Boom. Science.

We've all been watching Ryan for the past three season. That alone should be enough.

 

[jbeck5]

We're talking about ex Junior A/CIS/NCAA players whose best skill set is skating vs Ryan who sucks at skating. I know TONS that can beat Ryan in a race (where this argument originally started)

That's like stating some American Highschool basketball players are better free throw shooters than Shaq/Dwight/DeAndre/Drommond.

Again beating Ryan in a race is not outlandish.

Precisely what i'm saying. I know a short white kid who never got far in basketball but could throw 10 free throws and beat shaqs average all the time. That was the only thing he was good at, and that was the thing shaq was the worst at of his skills by far.

 

[BonkTastic]

ok, take a clip of ryan at the start of a shift going full stride between bluelines. Compare. you can get mathematical and fairly accurate. Use HD footage and do a frame by frame to get his exact time between the blue lines. Recreate yourself with a high quality camera preferably with slo mo capabilities. Boom. Science.

I doubt you have done any of this before making your claims.

Highly, highly doubt. Like, 99.99% doubt.


The question isn't whether or not players exist that:
a) don't play NHL hockey, and
b) can beat Bobby Ryan in a foot race.
Those players obviously exist. It would be logically dishonest to suggest otherwise.

The question is:
a) whether or not any of those players play in your beer league, and
b) are you enough of an authority as of right now to make that claim, regardless of "a)"
... My best guess is "no", for both.

 

[Six Assets]

[nhl]734202[/nhl]

 

[slamigo]

When did I compare myself to Bobby or brag about my hockey skills? Lol what in the f.

Sorry dude. No hard feelings. Lol.

 

[slamigo]

Precisely what i'm saying. I know a short white kid who never got far in basketball but could throw 10 free throws and beat shaqs average all the time. That was the only thing he was good at, and that was the thing shaq was the worst at of his skills by far.

Wait. Are we talking practice? Because I'm better at basketball practice than AI.

 

[OD99]

I can't believe you guys are still talking about this. ..who cares if Jbeck5 thinks he and his posse are faster than Ryan?

Seriously it doesn't matter at all.

I want to be picked so I can say I was on the ice with a current NHL player and see how bad I really am.