The problem: Sandin has convinced himself that hes a much better player than he actually is.
Confirmed Trade: [WSH/TOR] Rasmus Sandin for 2023 BOS 1st round pick and Erik Gustafsson
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
A lot of the highlights just make it seem like these kids feed off each other with amazing chemistry that they've built up together. Barkey might not be "driving the line" but hes demonstrating that he can be the missing piece to a line that many teams constantly covet (cough cough, leafs, cough cough).
Might look good beside a young russian in a few years
OG Eberle
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2011
- 1,571
- 1,972
We've done this dance with Leafs prospects drafted at the back of the first several times the last dozen years.
Junior highlights, hype train rolls, untouchable except for stars in deals, and then get dealt for much less or simply flame out. I'll reserve judgement on Cowan until the pro's as a result of recency bias.
Sandin looks more than servicable so far. I'd put the trade in the same category as the Hronek deal where it seems like a massive overpay at the time for the team giving up the 1st, but might not be as lopsided as we like to think down the line.
Junior highlights, hype train rolls, untouchable except for stars in deals, and then get dealt for much less or simply flame out. I'll reserve judgement on Cowan until the pro's as a result of recency bias.
Sandin looks more than servicable so far. I'd put the trade in the same category as the Hronek deal where it seems like a massive overpay at the time for the team giving up the 1st, but might not be as lopsided as we like to think down the line.
TheDoldrums
Registered User
OG Eberle
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2011
- 1,571
- 1,972
Sandin, Liljgren, Percy, Gauthier, Biggs were all later first round draft picks that fit my description above.
TheDoldrums
Registered User
liljegren has not flamed out and was more hyped pre-draft than he was as a Leafs prospect, the others did not really have a hype train
the idea that guys like Gauthier and Biggs were ever considered untouchable and had fans excitedly sharing their junior highlights is a complete fabrication.
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,100
- 6,970
Nah, this is a poor take. Biggs and Gauthier looked like big reaches and bad picks from day 1. Percy never had much hype.
Sandin and Lil did have a fair amount of hype but as likely good second pairing dmen rather than #1 franchise types. I'd say both are pretty close to meeting that expectation.
izzy
go
Percy was massively hyped by leafs fans
uncleben
Global Moderator
K we're veering off topic in an old thread
I don't mind keeping it up to discuss Sandin and Cowan, but talking about how much Toronto's prospects get talked about is not really adding anything to the discussion, nor is it helping.
I don't mind keeping it up to discuss Sandin and Cowan, but talking about how much Toronto's prospects get talked about is not really adding anything to the discussion, nor is it helping.
Sandin is a good player. Slow skater, yeah, but very smart, very skilled with the puck, more physical than you’d expect, and his defensive game is getting there. He’s not strong defensively, but he’s becoming good enough, slowly but surely.
This deal and the McCabe deal were tightly linked - Dubas thought McCabe was better, so once he brought McCabe in, there wasn’t room for Sandin. But Dubas was wrong IMO, Sandin is the better player, significantly so. McCabe honesty kinda sucks.
Once you strip away all the low value, essentially insignificant pieces, these 2 deals combined boiled down to:
In: McCabe, 2023 1st
Out: Sandin, 2025 1st, 2026 2nd
That was some trash trading by Dubas, essentially paid a 2nd round pick to downgrade from Sandin to McCabe. I do like Cowan, but there’s a good chance that 2025 1st is an equal (or better) prospect.
This deal and the McCabe deal were tightly linked - Dubas thought McCabe was better, so once he brought McCabe in, there wasn’t room for Sandin. But Dubas was wrong IMO, Sandin is the better player, significantly so. McCabe honesty kinda sucks.
Once you strip away all the low value, essentially insignificant pieces, these 2 deals combined boiled down to:
In: McCabe, 2023 1st
Out: Sandin, 2025 1st, 2026 2nd
That was some trash trading by Dubas, essentially paid a 2nd round pick to downgrade from Sandin to McCabe. I do like Cowan, but there’s a good chance that 2025 1st is an equal (or better) prospect.
Last edited:
- Aug 3, 2021
- 1,133
- 2,417
After 3 games under a new coach with a new system? The whole team has regressed at this point, as they aren't yet playing the system correctly.
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 15,954
- 23,320
So outside of Sandin and Liljegren (which both are top 4 NHL dmen so this is a weird take), your other examples are from a decade ago or more. Awesome.
Peasy
Registered User
Cant recall really any Leaf fans enjoying the Biggs and Gauthier picks lmao. What a weird take.
Youre going to have fans overrate ANY prospect. That applies to literally every team. There will obviously be more of those individuals for teams with larger fanbases. Just the way it is.
With that said, I'd be shocked if Cowan doesn't have an NHL career. As scouts like to say, hes a "hockey player". Mans even got the name to go with it.
Youre going to have fans overrate ANY prospect. That applies to literally every team. There will obviously be more of those individuals for teams with larger fanbases. Just the way it is.
With that said, I'd be shocked if Cowan doesn't have an NHL career. As scouts like to say, hes a "hockey player". Mans even got the name to go with it.
Last edited:
In isolation I don't necessarily have an issue with Sandin > McCabe but I do think its a bit more nuanced than this and certainly isn't a "significantly so". McCabe struggled to start the year (was great last night though) - but his numbers with Brodie last year down the stretch against top comp were actually strong.
Sandin doesn't kill penalties, Rielly doesn't really kill penalties either. That doesn't work in your top four with both LDs - so they knew they couldn't run Rielly-Sandin as a top four LD grouping long-term, and went and got a stylistically different player.
Sandin also will cost more after this year, because hes going to always have stronger counting stats.
Americanadian
Registered User
If anything Sandin should have more familiarity with Carbery than he had with Laviolette.
Every team likes to hype their own prospects. It's almost as if optimism for your teams future is a bad thing according to these boards. To each their own.
Djp
Registered User
this is standard HF bias where’ve erroneous says their late 1st or mid 2nd will be a superstar when test is so so rare.
About 50% drafted 25-60 get some nhl time but they are dime a dozen/ not above replacement value.
about 40% never see the nhl beyond 60 or so games.
of the remaining 10% you get some decent players and a few superstars.
for clattoty…..
what do I mean by replacement player?
you get to the time of arbitration eligibility and does a team QO them? It depends on system nhl ready prospect/ other high picks. Thrn it comes an ROI of resigning this more experienced player for 2x or more ehat the ELZc gets. Try might still resign them To a short contract as a bridge to prospect development
OG Eberle
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2011
- 1,571
- 1,972
I literally said in my OP "in the last dozen years" and "later first round picks by the leafs" as it's when I joined HFBoards. I remember/was here the threads (I used to try and make trade threads in my younger days; trial by fire I guess
)So yeah... reading comprehension is good. Not sure what else your post was meant to address other than adding "awesome" after repeating part of what I wrote verbatem?
But I won't derail further. My OP used those statements to back up why I didn't want to hype Cowan yet. That's all. Been taken too far out of the discussion and don't wanna go further.
Edit: I'll take it a step further to stabilize everything. You could make the argument about any hyped late first rounder that wasn't supposed to be a higher pick that fell for whatever reason. I chose leafs as an example cause a) it's a leafs thread and b) they have the most vocal and representative fanbase on HF so we naturally have more conversations about them.
Last edited:
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 15,954
- 23,320
8GP
0G
0A
-4
I think he isn't a top pairing guy but he is a good dman, so this is surprising. Any caps fans elaborate on his statline?
0G
0A
-4
I think he isn't a top pairing guy but he is a good dman, so this is surprising. Any caps fans elaborate on his statline?
Yeah the Capitals have a sad roster this year. The games they won they got lucky. It is basically chaos on the ice. I refuse to judge any young or new players based off the level of chaos on the ice. The Caps have 2 vets who can not keep up with the pace of game Backstrom, Oshie and a gimp in Mantha. The goalies are hung out to dry nightly.
Coaches Coroner
Member
- Mar 12, 2009
- 7,395
- 7,519
Your description said junior highlights and hype trains players seen as untouchable in trades.
Biggs never had good junior numbers or highlights, which lead to never having any real hype and being an early disappointment pick within the fanbase. He was never, ever considered "untouchable"...neither was Gauthier for that matter whose junior numbers stagnated and regressed despite making team Canada at the wjc. Percy was never seen as much more than a 5-6 with maybe slim top 4 upside, a boring pick at the time who then had injury problems. Was not very hyped, rarely had any highlights to speak of, never discussed as untouchable.
Sandin was drafted and went right to the AHL, so his hype was never based on junior numbers but on pro performance as a junior eligible player.
Lilljegren is a pretty good defenseman in the NHL and people got sick of seeing his name because he was thrown into so many trades because he wasn't seen as untouchable.
None of them fit your description all that well, but you seem like the kind of guy that sees a square peg and a round hole and jams away until neither is distinguishable.
I'd love to see a crumb of proof that he was hyped at all, let alone massively lmao. As someone who was a Leaf fan, he was thrown around in trades because he was seen as boring and expendable...and Leafs fans distaste of the pick started a week before the draft when reports of the Leafs courting him hard came out.
