Proposal: WPG-NSH

[Jerkbait]

Actually he never said anything about trading or being open to trading anyone, that was speculation on the Freidman's part. He even says in the next report that he was speculating using the amount of chatter about Ellis, Rinne's age and Josi's NTC.



Poile states he’s not in the trading Filip Forsberg business | Nashville Post

Also, you can hear Freidman talk about his part being speculation here.

News & Notes plus Anton Forsberg’s Amazing Odyssey | Podcasts - Sportsnet.ca

Not that I put too much weight in it but Pro hockey rumors have forsberg still listed as a trade chip today and the preds GM open for business... that was less than 24 hours ago...

 

[vipera1960]

This wasn't Friedman it was the NHL network....forsberg was listed as a player most likey available. Hearing the GMs comments sounds like they are not actively shopping but would be open to listening. Listed for Nashville were forsberg ekholm as 1/2. That was last week. Of course things could change but we have all heard iam not actively shopping a player only to see a move made . Seems unlikely but never rule it out.

That sounds like speculation, not quotes. There are no GM comments.

 

[Dache]

Oh, you think paying him $6.25 until he's 36 is a good contract? I think most would agree that the last 4 year's minimum will be really hard to stomach.

I get what you’re saying but many d men play at a high level into their 30s. I think at least 4 of the 7 years you’d get decent value for the money. He doesn’t play nearly as hard hitting as some d men which wears them out sooner. I’d hate to lose Perfetti before we have much idea what’s really there, so I’m on the fence about it. But it’s not horrible. He’s a high end dman and you need to give to get

 

[Snowman]

I get what you’re saying but many d men play at a high level into their 30s. I think at least 4 of the 7 years you’d get decent value for the money. He doesn’t play nearly as hard hitting as some d men which wears them out sooner. I’d hate to lose Perfetti before we have much idea what’s really there, so I’m on the fence about it. But it’s not horrible. He’s a high end dman and you need to give to get

Yeah, it's just a difference of opinion. I don't think Ellis' contract will age well after maybe one more year. Besides the Jets need a big, defensive defenseman and Ellis doesn't fit that mould, so for me he's not worth the assets it would cost or the risk the Jets would be taking with his contract.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Not that I put too much weight in it but Pro hockey rumors have forsberg still listed as a trade chip today and the preds GM open for business... that was less than 24 hours ago...

Garbage. Even Friedman's original stuff was dicey, based on a lot of speculation and desire to generate clickbait. But at this point, anything further along these lines is total garbage. Don't be fooled.

 

[Copenhagen91]

He would be the best d man on the Jets and only at 6.25. It’s a great contract.

Yes but that is too rationale for this place. Any long contract is automatically bad and a cap dump.

 

[EK392000]

Yes but that is too rationale for this place. Any long contract is automatically bad and a cap dump.

Negative value! The Preds would have to pay the Jets to take on Ellis’ contract

 

[bumblebeeman]

I am ok with the deal from the Jets. Giving up Perfetti is a lot, and Ellis is kind of small like the Jets other best defensemen, but he would bump all the Jets defensemen down a spot in the depth chart and make the Jets look like a serious contender for the next few years

 

[Armourboy]

Not that I put too much weight in it but Pro hockey rumors have forsberg still listed as a trade chip today and the preds GM open for business... that was less than 24 hours ago...

That just tells you how little they know about David Poile, the playoffs, and the trade deadline. If he thinks he has a shot at the playoffs the odds of him moving anyone is next to zero unless someone offers him a deal that is so silly it would be ridiculous not to take it. Yeah he is taking calls, Poile is always taking calls, but since 98 I can't recall him ever selling if we were close to making it.

 

[tbcwpg]

The Jets are paying Wheeler 8.25. He’s 34 now and that contract doesn’t end until he’s 37. He’s still a good player, and because he doesn’t rely on athletic prowess but on vision and hockey IQ, I suspect he will be until he’s 37. I think the same can be said for Ellis.

Some play styles age poorly and some age well.

Lots of Jets fans don't like the Wheeler contract either.

I like the Ellis contract but he missed about 20 games last season and also has missed a bunch of time this year as well. I also think the price is a bit high for the Jets to give up - there were reports that the Jets were seriously considering trade offers to move down in the draft until Perfetti ended up there so I don't think they'd move him WITH a 1st.

I don't think the value is as bad as some Jets fans have said but it's still too high for me.

 

[EK392000]

Lots of Jets fans don't like the Wheeler contract either.

I like the Ellis contract but he missed about 20 games last season and also has missed a bunch of time this year as well. I also think the price is a bit high for the Jets to give up - there were reports that the Jets were seriously considering trade offers to move down in the draft until Perfetti ended up there so I don't think they'd move him WITH a 1st.

I don't think the value is as bad as some Jets fans have said but it's still too high for me.

The only reason I brought up the Wheeler contract is because Wheeler is still producing, despite being 34. Some people on the thread are under the impression that once you’re over 30, your play somehow falls off a cliff and then you’re a liability to your team because of your play and your cap hit. That is completely wrong.

 

[tbcwpg]

The only reason I brought up the Wheeler contract is because Wheeler is still producing, despite being 34. Some people on the thread are under the impression that once you’re over 30, your play somehow falls off a cliff and then you’re a liability to your team because of your play and your cap hit. That is completely wrong.

I understand why, I'm just saying that you're not making the point you think you're making with a lot of Jets fans because they also don't like that contract

 

[Snowman]

The only reason I brought up the Wheeler contract is because Wheeler is still producing, despite being 34. Some people on the thread are under the impression that once you’re over 30, your play somehow falls off a cliff and then you’re a liability to your team because of your play and your cap hit. That is completely wrong.

You're also exaggerating to make your point. No one has said "Ellis will fall off a cliff", what I and others have said is if he continues having injury problems and his production drops some, the last 4 or 5 years of his contract minimum, could be pretty hard to stomach. Which is a big risk to take when the Jets are paying their best prospect plus, to do it.

 

[Byrddog]

10 years in the league only three season where he has not missed 10 or more games some years significantly more than 10 games. Good player when he is in the line-up but anyone who takes this contract will regret it. these injuries have impacted him and at age 30 it will only get worse.

 

[Soundgarden]

10 years in the league only three season where he has not missed 10 or more games some years significantly more than 10 games. Good player when he is in the line-up but anyone who takes this contract will regret it. these injuries have impacted him and at age 30 it will only get worse.

I feel like we've been through this before, you're neglecting his first two seasons he split between the NHL and the AHL, the lockout year and the covid year. Suddenly he's healthy 7/10 years instead of 3/10 like you're suggesting...

 

[Byrddog]

I agree Byrddog, when he's healthy, he's a good top pairing defenseman.

It sucks he can be an impact player and the team is worse without him. When he gets hit along the board ya have to hold your breath that hes not hurt again. If he were 6'2 216 with that skill set he would be a force.

 

[triggrman]

10 years in the league only three season where he has not missed 10 or more games some years significantly more than 10 games. Good player when he is in the line-up but anyone who takes this contract will regret it. these injuries have impacted him and at age 30 it will only get worse.

I agree that his injuries will catch up to him, and when he's healthy he's a good defender.

I feel like we've been through this before, you're neglecting his first two seasons he split between the NHL and the AHL, the lockout year and the covid year. Suddenly he's healthy 7/10 years instead of 3/10 like you're suggesting...

informative rebuttal.

 

[triggrman]

It sucks he can be an impact player and the team is worse without him. When he gets hit along the board ya have to hold your breath that hes not hurt again. If he were 6'2 216 with that skill set he would be a force.

Are we worse though? If you can trade him for something of good value, I think you do it. Fabbro slides into Ellis spot, like he has lately and Carrier has played great with Ekholm. Now that Farrance is signed, and we still have Davies and Harpur, something has to give.

 

[Byrddog]

I feel like we've been through this before, you're neglecting his first two seasons he split between the NHL and the AHL, the lockout year and the covid year. Suddenly he's healthy 7/10 years instead of 3/10 like you're suggesting...

Yes we have covered this before yet you still have not went back to look and see what happened. Ellis first games were in the playoffs in 10-11. I did not even count that year the next year he started in Milwaukee got hurt early and rehabed there and was called up just before new years. He played 62 games total ALH and NHL that season. The next year he played 32 games in AHL and 32 in Nashville the last being the first week of March when he was sidelined with a lower body injury where he missed the rest of the season and the playoffs. So he played 62 games one year and 64 the next. Looking thru his game logs there are not gaps where he was put in the pressbox missing games which was a standard under Trotz then so he really missed games. In fact the equivalent of basically 1/4 of the season those two years in a 82 game year.

Ryan Ellis - QuantHockey

Are we worse though? If you can trade him for something of good value, I think you do it. Fabbro slides into Ellis spot, like he has lately and Carrier has played great with Ekholm. Now that Farrance is signed, and we still have Davies and Harpur, something has to give.

I think your right there while im not 100% in on Fabbro yet he will get there but hes still making those young guy gaffs like Jones did Ekholm as well. I think Ellis trade value is impacted by his durability and the length of contract left. If he gets a late 1st and a A prospect it would be a boon. I would want the prospect to be a defenseman though because I am always leary of young guys and there failure rate. We need to have higher expectations for each player on the roster. This has been the issue for some time, guys that are bottom 6 or tweeners that could play up to the second line if you absolutely had too have been over valued too long. The signing of pylons as bottom pairing defensemen has done no favors either. You can go back to Hal Gill and look at those after him to include Y. Weber and the like. Remember due to injury Jones first year had to play up way above his head I think that hurt his image in Trotz mind and stunted his development. We played Ryan Parent too early and ruin any shot that kid had same with Jon Blum and it was usually out of necessity. I recall people bagging Josi his first two years and I took heat on the boards from saying that he was going to be better than Weber. Which I think he has been. He developed faster and remains my favorite player on the team along with Rinne. So im not sure if I want to see Fabbro thrust up this soon. I feel like he will end up just a level below Josi long term if he is allowed to be a work in progress. I know your a defenseman and appreciate the position there have been two defensemen I have been all in on in the last couple decades Josi was and and Sergichev the other they are special players

 

[EK392000]

I understand why, I'm just saying that you're not making the point you think you're making with a lot of Jets fans because they also don't like that contract

Argument: Once a player ages, he declines and is no longer worth the money you are paying for him
My counter: Here's a guy on your team that is 4 years older than the supposedly already old Ellis, and he is still producing. He is earning his money and is not a liability
My point: Getting old doesn't mean declining to the extent that you're no longer worth your salary

Extra: That Wheeler contract was too rich for him at the time he signed it. I assume his importance to the team impacted his AAV.

The point I made is the point I was trying to make.

 

[larmex99]

Argument: Once a player ages, he declines and is no longer worth the money you are paying for him
My counter: Here's a guy on your team that is 4 years older than the supposedly already old Ellis, and he is still producing. He is earning his money and is not a liability
My point: Getting old doesn't mean declining to the extent that you're no longer worth your salary

Extra: That Wheeler contract was too rich for him at the time he signed it. I assume his importance to the team impacted his AAV.

The point I made is the point I was trying to make.

There is a huge difference in the two players. Since Wheeler broke into the league full time his worst season for missed games is 3. He has 9 seasons with 79 or more games played but had 2 shortened seasons where he played every game. The guy is a warrior and shows up for the whole season. The thing that shortens a player’s career is multiple or serious injuries. Ellis has had those injuries and there isn’t much doubt that his contract won’t age well.

 

[Guffman]

Argument: Once a player ages, he declines and is no longer worth the money you are paying for him
My counter: Here's a guy on your team that is 4 years older than the supposedly already old Ellis, and he is still producing. He is earning his money and is not a liability
My point: Getting old doesn't mean declining to the extent that you're no longer worth your salary

Sure, some players do not decline as fast as other players. I think you have to take a general look at how players decline in their 30s and the particular player’s health history and recent play to see if a decline is already apparent and try to extrapolate.

Frankly, with a still young (but becoming veteran) core, I would want to avoid making long-term cap mistakes during this big window.

 

[tbcwpg]

Argument: Once a player ages, he declines and is no longer worth the money you are paying for him
My counter: Here's a guy on your team that is 4 years older than the supposedly already old Ellis, and he is still producing. He is earning his money and is not a liability
My point: Getting old doesn't mean declining to the extent that you're no longer worth your salary

Extra: That Wheeler contract was too rich for him at the time he signed it. I assume his importance to the team impacted his AAV.

The point I made is the point I was trying to make.

Fine, but I'm saying if your point is to convince Jets fans worried about Ellis' contract and age by bringing up Wheeler as a comparison, who's contract is not liked by most of the Jets fanbase despite his production, it isn't convincing anyone.

 

[Ainsy01]

Ekholm would be the target not Ellis. 2 years at 3.75 and a much easier piece to part with from Nashvilles point of view. First and Heinola.

 

[Atoyot]

Ekholm would be the target not Ellis. 2 years at 3.75 and a much easier piece to part with from Nashvilles point of view. First and Heinola.

No.