Would you trade our First Round Draft Pick for a top Left Defenseman

[KingBogo]

yes we could. For a top 8 overall pick ? Easily.

I would disagree. There is no chance getting an elite top pairing defenseman with the 8th overall pick. But maybe I'm wrong? Why don't you suggest 1 or 2 possibilities you think might be possible?

 

[surixon]

I would disagree. There is no chance getting an elite top pairing defenseman with the 8th overall pick. But maybe I'm wrong? Why don't you suggest 1 or 2 possibilities you think might be possible?

I've pointed to the Hamilton deal a couple of years back but that is likely an exception. The Jets don't need an elite top pairing guy anyways, a quality defense first number 3 to play with Buff is exactly what the Dr ordered imo. That piece i think could be acquired prior to the expansion draft if we can find a team in trouble. We'd have to move out one of our existing guys first.

 

[KingBogo]

I've pointed to the Hamilton deal a couple of years back but that is likely an exception. The Jets don't need an elite top pairing guy anyways, a quality defense first number 3 to play with Buff is exactly what the Dr ordered imo. That piece i think could be acquired prior to the expansion draft if we can find a team in trouble. We'd have to move out one of our existing guys first.

And Hamilton level player would be what you would be targeting. More of a second pairing guy. Certainly he wouldn't be considered an "elite" 1st pairing guy. But agreed a lesser player target might be possible, but I think that takes a significant prospect add even at that.

 

[Jets4Life]

I would disagree. There is no chance getting an elite top pairing defenseman with the 8th overall pick. But maybe I'm wrong? Why don't you suggest 1 or 2 possibilities you think might be possible?

In 2015, the Flames acquired Dougie Hamilton, a top pairing defenseman who just turned 22, from the Bruins for a 15th overall pick, and a couple of throw-in picks (45th and 53rd). You seriously think teams will not be lining up for a top 10 overall draft pick? The Jets would easily obtain a top 4 defenseman, and possibly a D-man that is comparable to Morrissey or Trouba.

How about Dmitry Orolov and Washington's first round pick (likely to be anywhere from 22-30th overall) for the Jets first overall (7th-9th Overall).\

We could just buy out Stuart this way.

 

[KingBogo]

In 2015, the Flames acquired Dougie Hamilton, a top pairing defenseman who just turned 22, from the Bruins for a 15th overall pick, and a couple of throw-in picks (45th and 53rd). You seriously think teams will not be lining up for a top 10 overall draft pick? The Jets would easily obtain a top 4 defenseman, and possibly a D-man that is comparable to Morrissey or Trouba.

How about Dmitry Orolov and Washington's first round pick (likely to be anywhere from 22-30th overall) for the Jets first overall (7th-9th Overall).\

We could just buy out Stuart this way.

For a Hamilton play you will need a team who can't afford to sign their own RFA or fend off an offer-sheet. Even then it was universally agreed there would have been much better offers if Boston would have actually shopped him around. I'm not saying you couldn't get a 2nd pairing guy for an 8-10 pick, but no way way you get an elite top pairing D-man.

 

[Jets4Life]

For a Hamilton play you will need a team who can't afford to sign their own RFA or fend off an offer-sheet. Even then it was universally agreed there would have been much better offers if Boston would have actually shopped him around. I'm not saying you couldn't get a 2nd pairing guy for an 8-10 pick, but no way way you get an elite top pairing D-man.

\

There is a very good chance you will get a top pairing D-men. An 8th pick has far more value than a 15th pick does. If the Flames can land Dougie hamilton (just turned 22 at the time), the JEts arguably can do better).

How about Cam Fowler from Anaheim?
Connor Murphy from Arizona?
Radko Gudas of Philadelphia?

Im actually falling asleep so I will talk to you later..its been a long day.

 

[KingBogo]

\

There is a very good chance you will get a top pairing D-men. An 8th pick has far more value than a 15th pick does. If the Flames can land Dougie hamilton (just turned 22 at the time), the JEts arguably can do better).

How about Cam Fowler from Anaheim?
Connor Murphy from Arizona?
Radko Gudas of Philadelphia?

Im actually falling asleep so I will talk to you later..its been a long day.

I appreciate you throwing out some names. It adds some context to where you are thinking we should go.

 

[Huffer]

\

There is a very good chance you will get a top pairing D-men. An 8th pick has far more value than a 15th pick does. If the Flames can land Dougie hamilton (just turned 22 at the time), the JEts arguably can do better).

How about Cam Fowler from Anaheim?
Connor Murphy from Arizona?
Radko Gudas of Philadelphia?

Im actually falling asleep so I will talk to you later..its been a long day.

Fowler is soon to be a UFA. No chance I move it for him. Murphy and Gudas are not good enough for a top 10 pick IMO. Gudas especially.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I'd be talking to Carolina about Slavin or Hanifin

 

[bumblebeeman]

I'm not sure who which elite under 25 defensemen would be available? I'd think it would be easier to grab a couple young unproven defensemen that aren't getting good opportunities for later picks or for forward prospects.

 

[Ttownjets61]

The team should follow in the ducks foot steps and never trade your first round pick. Continue to stock up on firsts and let them develop. Only when your a perennial contender like the pens and hawks do you then think of trading a first. I think a good goalie to help Helley out will go a long way. This summer should be great with the expansion draft coming and teams buying out or selling goalies for cheap

 

[Heldig]

Hard to assess until after the draft lottery. And the expansion draft complicates everything but Carolina has an abundance of expansion exempt top D / D prospects (Hanifin, Pesce, Slavin, Fleury, Bean, McKeown) so they are on team I can see trading a D for a pick especially if a forward they love is available at the Jets pick.

 

[Peggy]

Yes
Apparently the concensus is none of these guys are NHL ready(at least this is how everyone is making it sound)

We need a top left defenseman more than we need a centre or winger in the next 3 years

What could Petan and our 1st get us? Or what another paring?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well only a couple of seasons ago Hamilton went for a collection of picks. I don't believe any of them was a top 10 so it does happen. It might be even more likely given the expansion draft. Teams might be loath to loose a good dmen for nothing so they'll take a quality future piece.

Hamilton went for 15 OA, Senyshyn - could have been Barzal, Connor or Chabot. Not Hamilton's fault that Sweeney blew that draft. Plus they got 2 pretty good prospects with the two 2nds they got. I think the value came there because that was such a strong draft class.

Still a 1st and two 2nds for Hamilton was highway robbery. Should have also got Calgary's '16 1st - Tkachuk. The thing is that at the time they got Hamilton the Flames would not have expected to draft that high in '16. Not even close. They had just made the play-offs and would be even better with the addition of Hamilton so including that second 1st would have made sense.

I think if Boston had done a better job of shopping Hamilton they get better offers than that.

Edit: Meant to concede that you are right. It does happen. My point is that it is not normal. That was recognized as a strange and weak deal by Boston immediately it was announced.

 

[buggs]

Hamilton went for 15 OA, Senyshyn - could have been Barzal, Connor or Chabot. Not Hamilton's fault that Sweeney blew that draft. Plus they got 2 pretty good prospects with the two 2nds they got. I think the value came there because that was such a strong draft class.

Still a 1st and two 2nds for Hamilton was highway robbery. Should have also got Calgary's '16 1st - Tkachuk. The thing is that at the time they got Hamilton the Flames would not have expected to draft that high in '16. Not even close. They had just made the play-offs and would be even better with the addition of Hamilton so including that second 1st would have made sense.

I think if Boston had done a better job of shopping Hamilton they get better offers than that.

If the Flames were thinking their puck luck would hold for the following season then they need better hockey analysts on their staff than they currently had. They scored at a completely unsustainable rate that year. The regression we saw was the regression that was mostly expected (maybe not bottom five but certainly not playoffs again). Many people on this board alone, never mind the main board, predicted a substantial regression in shooting percentage and without goals the wins became sparse relatively speaking.

I do agree that Boston could have got a better deal and it's why I don't think our 1st generates a player like Hamilton (who at the time had scored 40+ as a 1st pairing dman). We're unlikely to find someone that hard up against the cap like Calgary did with Boston. Boston did alright with the trade but could have done much better with the deal they got (not taking Sensyshn) or had they shopped him sooner could have likely got a better return.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yes we could. For a top 8 overall pick ? Easily.

Not easily. Not at all. Unless elite means something far different to you than it does to me. That means at least Trouba. I wouldn't trade Trouba for 1st OA in this year's draft. That would be Trouba for Patrick. Wouldn't consider that for a second. Would you? Given the premium on D? Given the premium on right hand shot D? Given that Patrick is NOT in the McD, Eichel, Matthews category but expected to turn into more of a 1st/2nd C tweener?

Elite D means top 15 in the league. It means potential Norris candidate. And you want a young one too? If you are talking between 3-8 it is not Patrick. It is a Martin Necas or Miro Heiskanen, an Owen Tippett. I certainly would not trade Trouba for any of those.

 

[10Ducky10]

If the Flames were thinking their puck luck would hold for the following season then they need better hockey analysts on their staff than they currently had. They scored at a completely unsustainable rate that year. The regression we saw was the regression that was mostly expected (maybe not bottom five but certainly not playoffs again). Many people on this board alone, never mind the main board, predicted a substantial regression in shooting percentage and without goals the wins became sparse relatively speaking.

I do agree that Boston could have got a better deal and it's why I don't think our 1st generates a player like Hamilton (who at the time had scored 40+ as a 1st pairing dman). We're unlikely to find someone that hard up against the cap like Calgary did with Boston. Boston did alright with the trade but could have done much better with the deal they got (not taking Sensyshn) or had they shopped him sooner could have likely got a better return.

Wouldn't they have got more if they had let the Calgary offer sheet him?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I've pointed to the Hamilton deal a couple of years back but that is likely an exception. The Jets don't need an elite top pairing guy anyways, a quality defense first number 3 to play with Buff is exactly what the Dr ordered imo. That piece i think could be acquired prior to the expansion draft if we can find a team in trouble. We'd have to move out one of our existing guys first.

I never voted in this pole. I don't think the options are realistic. I would do the trade for the right D or the right goalie too. I don't think those are possible. The later 1st and a 2LHD might be getting close. I think in that case, if it is a true 2LHD and young we wouldn't get the later 1st. We would be doing well to get the player + a 2nd.

And again, if it is the right player I do it unless we have a top 3 lottery win. That is what we would be hoping to draft and then we have to wait at least 3 years to get him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In 2015, the Flames acquired Dougie Hamilton, a top pairing defenseman who just turned 22, from the Bruins for a 15th overall pick, and a couple of throw-in picks (45th and 53rd). You seriously think teams will not be lining up for a top 10 overall draft pick? The Jets would easily obtain a top 4 defenseman, and possibly a D-man that is comparable to Morrissey or Trouba.

How about Dmitry Orolov and Washington's first round pick (likely to be anywhere from 22-30th overall) for the Jets first overall (7th-9th Overall).\

We could just buy out Stuart this way.

The Hamilton trade was a ***** up by Boston. They could have gotten more. Even so those picks were worth extra because of the strength of the '15 draft. The 2 throw ins you call them would both go in the first round this year. As much as '15 picks are above the avg. the '17 picks are below the avg, or at least near as much. Do you think the GM's value every year's top 10 picks the same?

If we can get Orlov for our first straight up I would take it. Never mind getting their 1st added. I don't believe there is even the faintest chance of that happening.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

\

There is a very good chance you will get a top pairing D-men. An 8th pick has far more value than a 15th pick does. If the Flames can land Dougie hamilton (just turned 22 at the time), the JEts arguably can do better).

How about Cam Fowler from Anaheim?
Connor Murphy from Arizona?
Radko Gudas of Philadelphia?

Im actually falling asleep so I will talk to you later..its been a long day.

An 8th this year has less value than a 15th in '15.
You are saying that we can do better than an epically good trade by Calgary. Those come along about as often as generational players. Not to mention that you are ignoring the two 2nds they also paid where Boston got better players than they did with the 15th.

Cam Fowler is nowhere near elite. He is having a career season and he is a 2nd pair player. Not elite. Good but not elite.
Connor Murphy is a 3rd pair D. Come on!
Radko Gudas is Philly's only RHD. They aren't trading him. We don't need a RHD. He too is good but not elite. Better than Fowler.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I think the best bet is finding a team that can't afford to re-sign their guy because they are too close to the cap. That seems to be where the best deals come from ie. Leddy, Burns, Hamilton.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes
Apparently the concensus is none of these guys are NHL ready(at least this is how everyone is making it sound)

We need a top left defenseman more than we need a centre or winger in the next 3 years

What could Petan and our 1st get us? Or what another paring?

Very slightly more than our 1st alone I think. Petan is too unproven to have much market value. We would definitely be trading low.

There might be a few teams we could trade with for a young LHD or a good prospect.

Carolina would probably do Hanifin but that is because he is disappointing. He still has plenty of time to turn it around but he may turn out to be a perfect example of a player being rushed to the NHL and ruined. Of course you can never prove ruined. Maybe the player would bust no matter how much care was taken in developing him. But so far Hanifin has been a little offence and no defence. I would not risk paying a high price for him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If the Flames were thinking their puck luck would hold for the following season then they need better hockey analysts on their staff than they currently had. They scored at a completely unsustainable rate that year. The regression we saw was the regression that was mostly expected (maybe not bottom five but certainly not playoffs again). Many people on this board alone, never mind the main board, predicted a substantial regression in shooting percentage and without goals the wins became sparse relatively speaking.

I do agree that Boston could have got a better deal and it's why I don't think our 1st generates a player like Hamilton (who at the time had scored 40+ as a 1st pairing dman). We're unlikely to find someone that hard up against the cap like Calgary did with Boston. Boston did alright with the trade but could have done much better with the deal they got (not taking Sensyshn) or had they shopped him sooner could have likely got a better return.

I know that Calgary was lucky. I think when it happens to you though, even the pros think 'damn, we're good'. Human nature. Everything we saw from them indicated they expected to be right back in the play-offs. I'm sure they were aware of having been somewhat lucky but by adding Hamilton and Frolik they almost certainly thought they would be back. JMO I forget what they had for goaltending but they probably thought it would be much better than what happened.

Only saying that if they had included the next year's 1st they would not have expected it to be top 10 and net Tkachuk. So it would have been seen as acceptable and two 1sts plus two 2nds was probably about right for Hamilton IF you were going to trade him for picks. In hindsight they would not have included that. Tkachuk is a ****** *** but he is going to be a very good player for the Flames.

The good thing about Calgary getting him is that I will enjoy each win over them that much more (starting as soon as we get a goalie and a coach ).

 

[Grind]

I'd trade 8th overall for ghostisbehere

 

[Duke749]

I'd trade 8th overall for ghostisbehere

Would Philly honestly consider that though?