Would you take Rasmus Dahlin over Adam Fox and Charlie McAvoy?

[Prairie Habs]

I don't cheer for the Rangers, so Fox would be of zero value.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Fox > Dahlin > McAvoy

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

When it comes to physical play and actually defending Mcavoy is on another level than these two. And he carries around a 5’9 bottom pairing dman as his partner. Give this dude a lindgren or Samuelson and his defensive and offensive numbers vastly improve. There’s a reason the Bruins haven’t missed a beat defensively despite losing one of the best defensive dmen of all time in Chara.

Doesn't that reason rhyme with Smurgeron?

 

[Kane One]

it's close but yes once you factor in that he's 2 years younger than those guys

Lmfao only on HF would you take the two years younger player over the one who finished top-five in Norris voting—including a win—in three out of his only four seasons so far.

 

[ricky0034]

Lmfao only on HF would you take the two years younger player over the one who finished top-five in Norris voting—including a win—in three out of his only four seasons so far.

did you miss the part where I said in the same sentence that it was close?

being 23 instead of 25 would indeed be silly if it was the only reason I was picking someone but it's a hell of a tiebreaker

 

[NYR94]

McAvoy is so underrated on these boards, and I say that as a Rangers fan who thinks people tend to underrate Fox, but even I'll admit he is not underrated as much as McAvoy.

If you're talking about who is the better player today, I'd take Fox over McAvoy (extremely close) over Dahlin.

 

[Zach716]

He is crazy overrated on these boards. He is probably in that 6-8 range right now but people act like he is on par with Makar. He has great potential but today is not a better dman than Fox or McAvoy and I say that comfortably

Other team fans haven’t had exposure to him via playoffs so how often do you watch Dahlin where you can say that comfortably?

 

[Regal]

Doesn't that reason rhyme with Smurgeron?

I read that as Smurgeon and was so confused

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Obviously you take Fox and McAvoy over Dahlin as you'd be getting 2 of the best D in the league instead of just one. LOL

I think the better question is would you take Dahlin over Fox OR McAvoy.

I'm just kidding, but since that is how it's phrased in the question, it's how I read it.

I take him over both individually but not together.

 

[Givememoneyback]

Obviously you take Fox and McAvoy over Dahlin as you'd be getting 2 of the best D in the league instead of just one. LOL

I think the better question is would you take Dahlin over Fox OR McAvoy.

I'm just kidding, but since that is how it's phrased in the question, it's how I read it.

I take him over both individually but not together.

Glad I wasn't the only one who read the question that way.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Right now I have it Fox>Dahlin>McAvoy but all by small margins

But I could be convinced of putting Dahlin on top, he could emerge as the best as soon as this year, and that age difference at a clutch time with a lot going in his favor this year is hard to vote against

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No player is perfect. Fox is incredible, but that piss-poor effort in Game 7 against the Devils still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He got absolutely BULLIED by Ondrej Palat while the Rangers were on the PP, and his pathetic effort directly caused a SHG which lost the Rangers that series.

I get it - he scores a lot of points in the regular season and looks really cool when he's carrying the puck. But for someone who is allegedly the #1 or #2 defenseman in the league to get humiliated like that on one of the biggest stages of his life....not great.

That's not to say Dahlin, McAvoy, Makar, etc haven't made mistakes in big situations. But I haven't really seen people take Fox to task for essentially blowing that series single-handedly. For whatever reason he seems to be protected from criticism.

He is indisputably a super-elite defenseman. But I don't think he's #1 or #2. There are a lot of other really great defensemen today that don't get the benefit of playing in the NY market and getting constantly pumped up by national media. I'm not sure why this particular player gets put on a pedestal.

And Cale Makar got bullied by expansion players in losing a series. Did you read @BKarchitect's post about McAvoy's playoff series last year? These are not comic book characters. Majority of them f*** up all the time. McDavid had a bad playoff reputation until like two years ago. Did you also happen to miss Fox's playoffs the year before? He was in the Conn Smythe running, if his team won two more series.

No need to be so self important. You saw him have a weak playoff series against your team. You realize he also has 20 points in 20 games against the Devils in his career, more against any other team. Convenient you forgot about that.

What an asinine post.

Edit: To also address this idea that he was to blame for losing that series, it's a little silly. We had 1 player show up throughout. You know it wasn't a close series.

Fox is like the other 17 skaters that didn't pull their weight, and while I don't think any Ranger fan is happy with how he played in that series, Panarin was without a doubt getting the most heat. Plenty of others too got way more heat than Fox. Fox wasn't that awful either. He faded bad at the end of the series, but his first few games were vintage Fox. Like I said, there were others that were far bigger culprits.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Fox is good but he grinds people the wrong way being privileged and choosing to play for the NYR it sure doesn't help.

Fox also has played in a way better situation with Igor in net and better players on the ice for his career so of course he will have better stats aside form counting stats.

The way I see it is if healthy fox is around a top 5ish Dman in the league Dahlin is pushing Makar for the Norris this year.

Why don’t any of the other Rangers defensemen ever seem to have great analytics other than Lindgren then? Or you think Lindgren carries Fox?

The goalie has virtually nothing to do with Fox having great analytics. Most of the others yearly have bad analytics. Having a great goalie doesn’t effect Fox’s analytics more than negligibly.

 

[The S5]

Fox is good but he grinds people the wrong way being privileged and choosing to play for the NYR it sure doesn't help.

Fox also has played in a way better situation with Igor in net and better players on the ice for his career so of course he will have better stats aside form counting stats.

The way I see it is if healthy fox is around a top 5ish Dman in the league Dahlin is pushing Makar for the Norris this year.

Look, you really don't know what you are talking about. Fox makes the team go. He is great at both ends of the ice and makes other players look better than they are.
You may not like the guy, but don't let it cloud your judgement.

 

[wetcoast]

Why don’t any of the other Rangers defensemen ever seem to have great analytics other than Lindgren then? Or you think Lindgren carries Fox?

No of course Fox is an excellent Dman but much like Leetch in NY and EK65 some years in Ottawa they ahd partners who were nothing special but perfect complimentary player to all 3 stas.

The goalie has virtually nothing to do with Fox having great analytics. Most of the others yearly have bad analytics. Having a great goalie doesn’t effect Fox’s analytics more than negligibly.

No one was talking analytics and I was referring back to the post about being -12 or -16 in the month of March.

Now that I think about it there was also an analytical number that was really bad as well but everyone knows about plus/minus and goalies do have some impact unless you think Igor is equal to what Buffalo had last year.

Fox and Dahlin are really close but not for that injury last year, I'm pretty sure Dahlin would have been worthy for second in the Norris voting (3rd if we assume everyone is healthy and Makar is there)

 

[wetcoast]

Look, you really don't know what you are talking about.

I hear this a lot and I'm starting to resemble it.

Fox makes the team go.

Sure I'd agree with that but Dahlin is the same, with him injured the whole team sucked in March

He is great at both ends of the ice and makes other players look better than they are.

Sure but Dahlin does the same and brings a bit of physical element and has more flair and for some people (not saying this is the determing factor for me BTW)

You may not like the guy, but don't let it cloud your judgement.

I don't like or dislike the guy I'm just saying that some don't like all of the circumstances on how he needed up in NY, everyone has bias and some people buy more into some narratives than others.

 

[Oneiro]

He will be better than McAvoy who is very overrated.

But Fox…probably not. Doesn’t have the same IQ though his tools are stronger.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

A second round pick by the Flames ends up a Norris winner. How sad is that?

I'm also wondering how Fox slipped through the cracks in the draft. Why wasn't he taken first overall. If scouts had a crystal ball, things would be so different.

What would the oilers look like had they reached to take Fox 3rd overall instead of Puljujarvi? there might have been a riot to fire Chiarelli in Edmonton.

Would he have gotten a chance to develop if they picked him 3rd overall or would he have started day one?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He is crazy overrated on these boards. He is probably in that 6-8 range right now but people act like he is on par with Makar. He has great potential but today is not a better dman than Fox or McAvoy and I say that comfortably

If he were drafted where Fox was drafted the opinion on him would be different.

No player is perfect. Fox is incredible, but that piss-poor effort in Game 7 against the Devils still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He got absolutely BULLIED by Ondrej Palat while the Rangers were on the PP, and his pathetic effort directly caused a SHG which lost the Rangers that series.

I get it - he scores a lot of points in the regular season and looks really cool when he's carrying the puck. But for someone who is allegedly the #1 or #2 defenseman in the league to get humiliated like that on one of the biggest stages of his life....not great.

That's not to say Dahlin, McAvoy, Makar, etc haven't made mistakes in big situations. But I haven't really seen people take Fox to task for essentially blowing that series single-handedly. For whatever reason he seems to be protected from criticism.

He is indisputably a super-elite defenseman. But I don't think he's #1 or #2. There are a lot of other really great defensemen today that don't get the benefit of playing in the NY market and getting constantly pumped up by national media. I'm not sure why this particular player gets put on a pedestal.

The Rangers lost that game *checks notes* 4-0. They lose that game with and without that shitty play.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That's a bit dramatic. Folks are just pointing out that showing 1 month of counting stats isn't an indication of anything other than a guy played through an injury to help his team. It was obviously a drop off from his regular play so one can assume he could have easily sat out but didn't, which is not what every player does.

If the dude was 22% GF% because he was injured, he was hurting his team by playing not being a warrior.

When it comes to physical play and actually defending Mcavoy is on another level than these two. And he carries around a 5’9 bottom pairing dman as his partner. Give this dude a lindgren or Samuelson and his defensive and offensive numbers vastly improve. There’s a reason the Bruins haven’t missed a beat defensively despite losing one of the best defensive dmen of all time in Chara.

Weren't the Bruins without him to start the season last year and won at the same rate as they did after he came back?

 

[bov]

Dahlin easily over Fox. McAvoy is a bit closer but I still take Dahlin. More room to improve with a higher ceiling, while already being a great player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dahlin easily over Fox. McAvoy is a bit closer but I still take Dahlin. More room to improve with a higher ceiling, while already being a great player.

Why hasn’t Dahlin won the Norris yet if he’s easily better?

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Would he have gotten a chance to develop if they picked him 3rd overall or would he have started day one?

Maybe. Who knows. But look at shea weber, another later pick. So basically drafting Ds high is often a wasted pick. You are just as lucky drafting a Fox in a later round as drafting Moritz Seider in the top 10 pick.

 

[Chips]

He's top 3

Highly debatable

how he is overrated?( 1)

dahlin 8-10 range? Craziness imo (2)

There’s a wide range of opinions so nobody can say he’s overall this or that, but yeah some people got way too excited over a breakout season lol. I’m hoping for him to continue improving and anything I say is really talking about last year and what people were saying. Only two games so far let’s see.

He was 5th in scoring last year, and actually outpaced by more than that despite being on the team that scored the 2nd most goals.

His defense I think is where he got a little overrated but not massively by most.

(2) I’d say 4-10 is fair for last year. There were again several defenseman who scored more or around the same, and there were some who scored less but their defense was better. If anything is underrated, it’s defense in star defenseman debates. Fox was pretty dominant last year. Probably the best defensively of all the star Dman, in an age of scoring Dmen he’ll probably become underrated.

Usually the 4-10 range is highly debatable and preference, tiers make more sense to me imo

He can get to the top more clearly though, he has the pedigree.

Last season he was pretty incredible even if the second half wasn’t as strong.

The second half counts too, otherwise Horvat is one of the top centers in the league. Players get hot and cold. Hell, guys in their mid 30s suddenly break out and have the best offensive season by far one year. Not saying Dahlins case is anywhere near that extreme, just saying all games count.

Very exciting style though I get why people are crazy for him.

 

[TBF1972]

A second round pick by the Flames ends up a Norris winner. How sad is that?

I'm also wondering how Fox slipped through the cracks in the draft. Why wasn't he taken first overall. If scouts had a crystal ball, things would be so different.

What would the oilers look like had they reached to take Fox 3rd overall instead of Puljujarvi? there might have been a riot to fire Chiarelli in Edmonton.

he wouldn't have signed with the oilers