Would you take Rasmus Dahlin over Adam Fox and Charlie McAvoy?

[bigdog16]

8th for the Norris (2022-23). Dahlin is underrated

He is crazy overrated on these boards. He is probably in that 6-8 range right now but people act like he is on par with Makar. He has great potential but today is not a better dman than Fox or McAvoy and I say that comfortably

 

[The S5]

I am a Devils fan, so when I say this you understand the pain it causes me.

Fox is incredible. Fox is the 2nd best defenseman in the league. Dahlin is great, and maybe he gets even better, but Fox was better last year and the year before. He put up the same number of points on a team that not only scored ~20 fewer goals but also gave up 80 fewer goals. He's really really really f***ing good.

McAvoy is more of a conversation, I think.

It's just absurd when people try to crap on Fox. The guy is so good that what he does gets taken for granted. I guess if you don't show up in the highlight reels you become unappreciated.

Since we are playing nice in the sandbox, Jack effing Hughes gives me nightmares. It bother me to no end that the Devils get the #1 with Hughes and the Rangers end up with Laffy. Ughh!

 

[goonybird]

Do you mean over either?

 

[AfroThunder396]

No player is perfect. Fox is incredible, but that piss-poor effort in Game 7 against the Devils still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He got absolutely BULLIED by Ondrej Palat while the Rangers were on the PP, and his pathetic effort directly caused a SHG which lost the Rangers that series.

I get it - he scores a lot of points in the regular season and looks really cool when he's carrying the puck. But for someone who is allegedly the #1 or #2 defenseman in the league to get humiliated like that on one of the biggest stages of his life....not great.

That's not to say Dahlin, McAvoy, Makar, etc haven't made mistakes in big situations. But I haven't really seen people take Fox to task for essentially blowing that series single-handedly. For whatever reason he seems to be protected from criticism.

He is indisputably a super-elite defenseman. But I don't think he's #1 or #2. There are a lot of other really great defensemen today that don't get the benefit of playing in the NY market and getting constantly pumped up by national media. I'm not sure why this particular player gets put on a pedestal.

 

[bobholly39]

Fox and McAvoy are pretty great - but I would definitely take Dahlin over McAvoy personally.

Fox? I figure 50/50 - maybe even ~75/25 likelylihood Dahlin ends up with better career. But Fox has certainly done better career to date, and is an absolute stud too. So - either choice is probably fine

I voted option 3, but came very close to option 1.

 

[Maverick41]

I would take him over both, but to be honest I would be ecstatic to have any one of the three on my team.

 

[ricky0034]

it's close but yes once you factor in that he's 2 years younger than those guys

 

[The S5]

No player is perfect. Fox is incredible, but that piss-poor effort in Game 7 against the Devils still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He got absolutely BULLIED by Ondrej Palat while the Rangers were on the PP, and his pathetic effort directly caused a SHG which lost the Rangers that series.

I get it - he scores a lot of points in the regular season and looks really cool when he's carrying the puck. But for someone who is allegedly the #1 or #2 defenseman in the league to get humiliated like that on one of the biggest stages of his life....not great.

That's not to say Dahlin, McAvoy, Makar, etc haven't made mistakes in big situations. But I haven't really seen people take Fox to task for essentially blowing that series single-handedly. For whatever reason he seems to be protected from criticism.

He is indisputably a super-elite defenseman. But I don't think he's #1 or #2. There are a lot of other really great defensemen today that don't get the benefit of playing in the NY market and getting constantly pumped up by national media. I'm not sure why this particular player gets put on a pedestal.

Time to reassess. The entire Ranger team sucked in that series. Adam Fox was the least of their problems.

 

[bigdog16]

I think it's a safe bet that Dahlin scores more than Fox most years if not every year. Not sure what the bold has do do with anything.

Lol how is this a safe bet? He has outscored him 1 time and it was by ONE point. Not to mention last year was a down year for Fox. The Rangers are still significantly better than the Sabres at least for the next couple years.

Its actually the least safe bet ever. Thats like a +750 bet

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

He’s in that 8-10 range, but people act like he’s a top 4

He was the 5th most productive d-man last year (PPG).

It's not inaccurate to call him a top 5 D.

 

[Aladyyn]

He was the 5th most productive d-man last year (PPG).

It's not inaccurate to call him a top 5 D.

Especially since he's also the best defender of that group

 

[Golden_Jet]

Question be interpreted 2 ways with AND in the title.

 

[wetcoast]

No. He fell of one of the biggest cliffs on the planet for about 20% of the season. Sure, it was because of injury, but still doesn't make his season consistent.

Man using that logic McDavid didn't really establish himself as a top offensive weapon until his second year because well he was injured right?

No one said it did. This was a discussion about Dahlin still not having one whole consistent season of top performance, which is true. That's most likely bound to change though.

I have a hard time picking between Fox and Dahlin here.

Dahlin also showed enough growth in the 21-22 season but like some people claimed that AM wasn't a 50 goal scorer (due to shortened seasons like it meant anything) you are out to lunch on Dahlin and have been for a while.

Did he kick your dog or something?

I mean at this stage of his career he is better than Hedman and while he might never become overall as great as Hedman (though I think he could) he will be much better offensively for his career than Hedman that's quite clear barring injuries.

 

[UnSandvich]

Of the top young Dmen leaguewide, Makar & Fox are 1a & 1b.

After that you have the grouping of Dahlin, McAvoy, Heiskanen, and I’m probably forgetting someone else.

Then it’s Hughes & then a gap to the next group imo

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Makar
Heiskanen
Fox
Hughes/McAvoy
Dahlin

Is how I currently rank them.

By next year I think it goes:
Makar
Dahlin
Hughes/Heiskanen
Fox
McAvoy

 

[Buck Naked]

Man using that logic McDavid didn't really establish himself as a top offensive weapon until his second year because well he was injured right?

Show me a full month of any statline like that from McDavid's first year? 22.22 GF%..

Dahlin also showed enough growth in the 21-22 season but like some people claimed that AM wasn't a 50 goal scorer (due to shortened seasons like it meant anything) you are out to lunch on Dahlin and have been for a while.

Did he kick your dog or something?

I mean at this stage of his career he is better than Hedman and while he might never become overall as great as Hedman (though I think he could) he will be much better offensively for his career than Hedman that's quite clear barring injuries.

It's incredible how immune this guy is to every tiny bit of criticism. You say something negative and the Dahlin mafia shows up with tears in their eyes. I don't know why it's such a hot take to say that he wasn't as good in the latter half of the season as in the first. It's right f***ing there.

Why are you bringing Hedman into this? Who said Hedman was better? I for one don't think so at least.

 

[wetcoast]

It's just absurd when people try to crap on Fox. The guy is so good that what he does gets taken for granted. I guess if you don't show up in the highlight reels you become unappreciated.

Since we are playing nice in the sandbox, Jack effing Hughes gives me nightmares. It bother me to no end that the Devils get the #1 with Hughes and the Rangers end up with Laffy. Ughh!

Fox is good but he grinds people the wrong way being privileged and choosing to play for the NYR it sure doesn't help.

Fox also has played in a way better situation with Igor in net and better players on the ice for his career so of course he will have better stats aside form counting stats.

The way I see it is if healthy fox is around a top 5ish Dman in the league Dahlin is pushing Makar for the Norris this year.

 

[wetcoast]

Show me a full month of any statline like that from McDavid's first year? 22.22 GF%..

Show me a full month where McDavid played through injury in his rookie year?

It's incredible how immune this guy is to every tiny bit of criticism. You say something negative and the Dahlin mafia shows up with tears in their eyes. I don't know why it's such a hot take to say that he wasn't as good in the latter half of the season as in the first. It's right f***ing there.

No the criticism is fair but context should also be taken here as well and that gets lost in the discussion at times.

Why are you bringing Hedman into this? Who said Hedman was better? I for one don't think so at least.

I'm brining Hedman into the conversation as context Dmen often take more time to develop and I'm sure if Fox was thrown into the league his D+! year on a crappy team like the Sabers his development is probably different.

The Sabers still had crappy goaltending last year Levi was 5-2 with a ,905 save % and a 2.94 GAA average if he is only that good this year that will change a lot for the Sabers and he probably will be better than that too.

Also in March where Dahlin was -16 playing injured the whole Sabers team was crap and he also only had 5 games with his regular Dman partner Mattias Samuelsson who get under appreciated at times.

Every other month he was a + on a crappy team so why focus on an injury month where he probably shouldn't have been playing in the first place?

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[Matt Ress]

Show me a full month of any statline like that from McDavid's first year? 22.22 GF%..



It's incredible how immune this guy is to every tiny bit of criticism. You say something negative and the Dahlin mafia shows up with tears in their eyes. I don't know why it's such a hot take to say that he wasn't as good in the latter half of the season as in the first. It's right f***ing there.

Why are you bringing Hedman into this? Who said Hedman was better? I for one don't think so at least.

That's a bit dramatic. Folks are just pointing out that showing 1 month of counting stats isn't an indication of anything other than a guy played through an injury to help his team. It was obviously a drop off from his regular play so one can assume he could have easily sat out but didn't, which is not what every player does.

 

[TageGod]

No. He fell of one of the biggest cliffs on the planet for about 20% of the season. Sure, it was because of injury, but still doesn't make his season consistent.



No one said it did. This was a discussion about Dahlin still not having one whole consistent season of top performance, which is true. That's most likely bound to change though.

I have a hard time picking between Fox and Dahlin here.

I am guessing you have never played through a serious injury before. If he is excellent the entire season. excluding the stretch he was HURT, that is a consistent season. Dahlin should not, and would not have played during that stretch if the Sabre's were eliminated.

 

[Three On Zero]

He was the 5th most productive d-man last year (PPG).

It's not inaccurate to call him a top 5 D.

It’s very inaccurate, more to being a defenceman than production

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

It’s very inaccurate, more to being a defenceman than production

Your stance would make sense if he was poor defensively, especially compared to his peers.

You have no idea what you're talking about other than disregarding a player for no reason, right?

 

[bearcountry17]

When it comes to physical play and actually defending Mcavoy is on another level than these two. And he carries around a 5’9 bottom pairing dman as his partner. Give this dude a lindgren or Samuelson and his defensive and offensive numbers vastly improve. There’s a reason the Bruins haven’t missed a beat defensively despite losing one of the best defensive dmen of all time in Chara.

 

[loosemoose]

So overrated

Doesn't include last season but doubt it's much worse.

To add to the comparison, McAvoy.

And Dahlin.

 

[Unspecified]

He’s in that 8-10 range, but people act like he’s a top 4

Not sure about 8-10 but maybe 6-8.

Makar
Fox
Heiskanen
McAvoy
Hughes/Josi

Dahlin