Would the Leafs be doing better right now if Babcock wasn’t the coach?

[Bread and Circuses]

Probably not. Matthews is on a milk carton.

He better not get near Rask then.......

 

[Faltorvo]

Why do people bring up the regular season like it means something?

Babcock was also the coach when the team was in last place.

are you mentally damaged?

we finished last during a season where THE GOAL was to finish last

 

[Matt24]

I’ve never thought Babcock was the best coach in the league, or even Top 3, but he’s still a Top 10 coach at worst and Top 5 at best and thus, whoever you replace him with is almost certainly going to be worse. Leafs need to overhaul their RHD. You can win with a left side of Rielly/Gardiner/Dermott, but you ain’t going anywhere with a right side of Hainsey/Zaitsev/Polak. They’re getting exposed badly and ultimately, fair or unfair to put on a 20 year old, Matthews can’t afford to turn into a ghost with that kind of a right side.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Not sure if they would be better but he is over rated and over paid for sure and being out coached by Cassidy. He does not have Lidstrom and Datysuk to make him look good or Bergeron and Marchand for that case for Team Canada. Good coach but they hype is failing big time and his record is very average in the last 20 playoff games. Lou Lam is over rated too in my book, failed to add some dee but added centers lol.

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

Nah, probably not. I think Babs can be pretty heavily overrated at times and can make some baffling personnel decisions, but he still a pretty good coach all the same. Real problem is the young stars disappearing, as well as their shoddy defense. The first problem will likely be fixed in time with more experience. They're all so young right now. The second will take more effort. Toronto has good D prospects but I don't see a #1 dude and that is what they need. Either that or a ton more depth, Polak should not be a regular. Lastly, and this is just a hunch, they might need a new goalie. Andersen puts up solid enough numbers but he always seems to crack under pressure.

 

[tsnTpoint]

I am reading a ton of posts about how Bostons team is just better yada yada yada.

I think what original poster is getting at is that Babcock is not adapting as this series goes on.

Babcock is one a hell of a coach, but he is very stubborn. Reluctant to adapt accordingly at times.

He is being out-coached.

 

[Newsworthy]

I think the Leafs decided to go with the "big name" coach. Gallant would have made the most sense.
In fact Randy Carlyle has a higher winning % than Babcock as Leaf s coach.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Not sure. But should a guy be considered the " best coach in Hockey" when he's been bounced in the first round four straight playoffs?

 

[valet]

no, but a better d would help

 

[TheDoldrums]

I think the Leafs decided to go with the "big name" coach. Gallant would have made the most sense.

How would Gallant have made the most sense when he was coaching Florida at the time of Babcock's hiring?

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

out of 12 forwards only 2 or 3 are very good defensively.

 

[Jeffsrig]

I think Toronto has unrealistic expectations for the management, coaching staff and players of the team in general. The team is overachieving which is a great, I don't think anyone expected them to be this strong in such a short period of time. Show a little patience and appreciate the fact that the team is moving in the right direction.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Not sure. But should a guy be considered the " best coach in Hockey" when he's been bounced in the first round four straight playoffs?

I'm not going to speak to his time with the Leafs, but Babcock wasn't exactly dealing with a very strong Red Wings team in those last few seasons. You could be the best coach in the world but you aren't going to reliably win a playoff series without the players to do it.

 

[Blowfish]

The Leafs are a couple years away from finishing the rebuild and being a perennial contender. They need better personnel not a better coach.

Couple years away ... good lord how many times do we hear this on leaf radio? With all this depth the leafs supposedly have, how about turning some young assets into a package for top 1/2 stay at home D.

Unless Nylander does something to impress and help propel leafs past bruins he would be first on my list. Dude has been down right brutal.

 

[thunder16]

He clearly stated he didn't have the replay angle that everyone else seen and stated he would have challenged had he had correct information. But yeah clearly we should can him based off of one offside non-call decision.

So what he is saying is that the richest organization can not afford 4 tablets hooked in to every TV FEED known to man with each coach watching a different feed and seeing every angle? GTFO! What a lame f***ing excuse!! Here is one for you B-cock. turn to CBC, they have every angle. What a f***ing dumb ass.

 

[LeafFever]

I am reading a ton of posts about how Bostons team is just better yada yada yada.

I think what original poster is getting at is that Babcock is not adapting as this series goes on.

Babcock is one a hell of a coach, but he is very stubborn. Reluctant to adapt accordingly at times.

He is being out-coached.

I do agree with what you are saying, but it hardly means there are better coaches out there to lead the Leafs. Should they fire him and get Vigneault?
They've done great under Babcock and he's a very good coach. I blame him for some things but in the end, you won't be a coytender with that goaltending.

 

[LeafFever]

Couple years away ... good lord how many times do we hear this on leaf radio? With all this depth the leafs supposedly have, how about turning some young assets into a package for top 1/2 stay at home D.

Unless Nylander does something to impress and help propel leafs past bruins he would be first on my list. Dude has been down right brutal.

Copying the Oilers blueprint is not a good idea. Leave the 3 young forwards. Nylander has back-to-back 60 point seasons already to start his career. It is a massive mistake to give up on a blue chipper becauuse of a disappointing playoff series. He's 21.

 

[Look Up]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/hey-hey-ho-ho-mike-babcock-has-got-to-go.2479961/

So seeing as we’re not allowed to negatively discuss Babcock on the Leafs board I’d like to get other fans’ opinions on him.

That's because the science is settled. No debate allowed.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Babcock is pretty remarkable in terms of getting the results you expect out of a team. He has a few surprises and duds on his resume, but by in large you give him a first round playoff team that is where he takes them. The Leafs don't have a back-end for a deep playoff run and several of us have said that all season. It isn't surprising, Babcock was handed a likely first round loser and that is exactly where he took them. When you hand him a team capable of a deep run he is likely to take them on one. When he was handed the worst roster in the league he finished dead last. The guy isn't King Midas. He is a consistent grinder.

My bigger concern with Babcock has always been to me he is better in his initial burst with a team. It is one of the reason in my opinion he thrives in short international tournaments and back in his days in junior. He does better with turnover and the way he pushes guys does get old. He doesn't seem a logical fit for Toronto who now have real expectations but are a little behind on the development to be pushed there by Babcock. I just don't think the timing is going to work out, I expect him to be under tremendous pressure next year. Tampa and Boston are not old, Florida is very real and coming in that division, Buffalo has talent maybe they find a goalie and spring forward. For as pathetic as the Atlantic looks, I think the division is about to upswing into a real meat-grinder and if the Leafs don't trade Nylander for defensive help they aren't going to be a player. Babcock can't fix that, he needs help from above.

 

[LeafFever]

Babcock is pretty remarkable in terms of getting the results you expect out of a team. He has a few surprises and duds on his resume, but by in large you give him a first round playoff team that is where he takes them. The Leafs don't have a back-end for a deep playoff run and several of us have said that all season. It isn't surprising, Babcock was handed a likely first round loser and that is exactly where he took them. When you hand him a team capable of a deep run he is likely to take them on one. When he was handed the worst roster in the league he finished dead last. The guy isn't King Midas. He is a consistent grinder.

My bigger concern with Babcock has always been to me he is better in his initial burst with a team. It is one of the reason in my opinion he thrives in short international tournaments and back in his days in junior. He does better with turnover and the way he pushes guys does get old. He doesn't seem a logical fit for Toronto who now have real expectations but are a little behind on the development to be pushed there by Babcock. I just don't think the timing is going to work out, I expect him to be under tremendous pressure next year. Tampa and Boston are not old, Florida is very real and coming in that division, Buffalo has talent maybe they find a goalie and spring forward. For as pathetic as the Atlantic looks, I think the division is about to upswing into a real meat-grinder and if the Leafs don't trade Nylander for defensive help they aren't going to be a player. Babcock can't fix that, he needs help from above.

Forgive me for not worrying about Buffalo or Florida. How many years do we have to hear about them as up and coming teams? Will they add 3 60 point forward rookies like Toronto did? Matthews/Marner/Nylander are only getting better. Buffalo is so far behind it's ridiculous.
And no, trading Nylander is not a good idea. Do you follow the Oilers?
How about just developing Liljegren who looks great and Dermott? You can add a top 4 D with picks/prospects and still keep Nylander.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Forgive me for not worrying about Buffalo or Florida. How many years do we have to hear about them as up and coming teams? Will they add 3 60 point forward rookies like Toronto did? Matthews/Marner/Nylander are only getting better. Buffalo is so far behind it's ridiculous.
And no, trading Nylander is not a good idea. Do you follow the Oilers?

No, I have followed a team that I have seen win 4 championships and go to the finals 6 times in my lifetime. I know the Penguins have some people thinking that a D-core isn't the be all end all. But you don't have Crosby and Malkin. The Leafs don't have enough on the back-end to be the team that you're dreaming of. They need help and no Dermott isn't the major fix for this concern before it is thrown out there. I can honestly say as a Wings fan few things are as horrifying as the thought of the Leafs winning a cup, so hold onto your wingers and don't win anything, I would be happy to watch that.

The Tom Rowe experiment harmed Florida and set them back a couple years in my opinion. Still they have a ton of talent locked into good deals, they are deep down the middle and I like their young D-man significantly more than the Leafs. Dismiss them, but they have the championship building blocks in place down there in my opinion.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

Not sure. But should a guy be considered the " best coach in Hockey" when he's been bounced in the first round four straight playoffs?

I think the luster of best coach in hockey has passed him. He is a good coach but def not the best or even top 5

 

[LeafFever]

No, I have followed a team that I have seen win 4 championships and go to the finals 6 times in my lifetime. I know the Penguins have some people thinking that a D-core isn't the be all end all. But you don't have Crosby and Malkin. The Leafs don't have enough on the back-end to be the team that you're dreaming of. They need help and no Dermott isn't the major fix for this concern before it is thrown out there. I can honestly say as a Wings fan few things are as horrifying as the thought of the Leafs winning a cup, so hold onto your wingers and don't win anything, I would be happy to watch that.

The Tom Rowe experiment harmed Florida and set them back a couple years in my opinion. Still they have a ton of talent locked into good deals, they are deep down the middle and I like their young D-man significantly more than the Leafs. Dismiss them, but they have the championship building blocks in place down there in my opinion.

I've heard about Florida's young talent for way too many years. they have never taken that next step. They are a very poorly run organization. That will continue to hurt them. Buffalo was supposed to be years ahead of the Leafs and are still a big mess.
And BTW, Dermott is really good. He is already a solid D as a rookie.
No one is saying the D does not have to get better. But they have Liljegren. How about just letting the young players develop?
And Florida has cup winning building blocks but the Leafs don't? Get out of here with that. They can't even make the playoffs. They don't have anything like Matthews/Marner/Nylander. Also, they have major goaltending questions as Luongo is 39 and Reimer has never been a starter.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm not going to speak to his time with the Leafs, but Babcock wasn't exactly dealing with a very strong Red Wings team in those last few seasons. You could be the best coach in the world but you aren't going to reliably win a playoff series without the players to do it.

Yes, but we have seen him get out coached a time or two as well. Cooper, Q and Trotz come to mind as guys I have watched make better adjustments and I think got the better of him in terms of series in Detroit. A couple of those you can say he didn't have the talent, but he didn't have answers to their counters, he just tried to keep doing the same thing and wound up going down with the ship.

 

[LeafFever]

I think the luster of best coach in hockey has passed him. He is a good coach but def not the best or even top 5

How can he not be seen as top 5? The Leafs had 105 points this year. He has 2 gold medals, a cup and 3 finals appearnces.