Would a Vegas SC be grounds for firing DT?

[RainingRats]

I'm sorry? Isn't that kind of the point of a rebuild? That you get to draft high and you pick players to become your core pieces? Are you saying he shouldn't be picking Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad...but rather go the hard route and pick longshots and hope for the best? He had them in the playoffs, got kicked out and turmoil behind the scenes all season last year. They nearly got back in again this year and I'd be shocked if they missed out next year. He has done a fine job, even if he isn't faultless.

I'm saying it's not much of an accomplishment to get core players when you draft in the top 3.

 

[Jakeybonz]

We've established that we're not firing Tallon. Hurray. Now can we close this thread now before it gets out of control again?

Its not out of control. RainingRats is talking about one of the worst moves in hockey history here, and its not like it happened to the penguins who can just shrug it off and say oh well, at least we won 2 cups in a row. this happened to the last fanbase in the world that could afford it. theres no overstating it, theres no getting over it, and theres no excusing tallon for it. ever. i agree that it would make the team look even more unstable if they fired him now, and they def. should have fired him right when or right after he did it, but i dont care. he needs to go. better late than never. if they can fire gallant in the middle of nowhere, they can fire tallon in the offseason. of course if the owners dont spend we still wont go anywhere, but if 65M is all we're spending, id rather almost anyone else manage it.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

I think people still underestimate how long a rebuild from scratch takes. We have 0 players in the organization that were acquired before 2010. No player on the roster has made his Panthers debut before 2012 (Lu excluded, acquired again in 2014). Compare this to any playoff team and you'll be lost. I'll run this for the Eastern playoff teams now showing the date that the longest tenured player was acquired by the team and the date of the oldest debut of active players on the team.

Team	Acquired	Debuted
FLORIDA	2010	2012
Tampa	2007	2008
Boston	2003	2003
Toronto	2009	2009
New Jersey	2004	2006
Washington	2004	2005
Pittsburgh	2004	2005
Columbus	2008	2010
Philadelphia	2006	2007

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This team has been rebuilt from nothing since 2010 or 2012 depending on how you see it. No team in the east compares. I understand we're impatient because of failure before Tallon came aboard. I understand he said 5 years as a marketing ploy when he came on. I understand he has made bad moves (the GM that we're all praising for fleecing Tallon traded Filip Forsberg for 62 games of washed up Martin Erat). And yet here we are wanting a guy who has brought us 3 of our top 4 regular seasons of all time and 4 of our top 6 (in about 7 seasons) fired. Last four seasons are 91, 103, (insert dysfunction here) 81, 96. For a team on a budget. Impressive work. Grass isn't always greener (we made this mistake once with Gallant let's not again).

 

[vendetta]

I'm saying it's not much of an accomplishment to get core players when you draft in the top 3.

Give it up.. your bias is showing and it's quite comical. His core doesn't count cause they ere high draft picks.. lol. If u can explain to me how every single other good team got their core pieces without high picks I'll take it back... this might be the funniest comment I've read on here... and sorry but tallon picked barkov.. he was the gm.. he listened to a scout and picked accordingly the same as 100% of the other teams run their draft... to state otherwise is pure bias and ignorance

 

[vendetta]

I think people still underestimate how long a rebuild from scratch takes. We have 0 players in the organization that were acquired before 2010. No player on the roster has made his Panthers debut before 2012 (Lu excluded, acquired again in 2014). Compare this to any playoff team and you'll be lost. I'll run this for the Eastern playoff teams now showing the date that the longest tenured player was acquired by the team and the date of the oldest debut of active players on the team.

Team	Acquired	Debuted
FLORIDA	2010	2012
Tampa	2007	2008
Boston	2003	2003
Toronto	2009	2009
New Jersey	2004	2006
Washington	2004	2005
Pittsburgh	2004	2005
Columbus	2008	2010
Philadelphia	2006	2007

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This team has been rebuilt from nothing since 2010 or 2012 depending on how you see it. No team in the east compares. I understand we're impatient because of failure before Tallon came aboard. I understand he said 5 years as a marketing ploy when he came on. I understand he has made bad moves (the GM that we're all praising for fleecing Tallon traded Filip Forsberg for 62 games of washed up Martin Erat). And yet here we are wanting a guy who has brought us 3 of our top 4 regular seasons of all time and 4 of our top 6 (in about 7 seasons) fired. Last four seasons are 91, 103, (insert dysfunction here) 81, 96. For a team on a budget. Impressive work. Grass isn't always greener (we made this mistake once with Gallant let's not again).

I've stated this many times but u actually put numbers to it... tho the bias haters will ignore these facts and totally dismiss them... like they have been doing so they can propel their narrative even further.. people just refuse to accept reality when their mind is set a certain way.. anyway spot on post that should put things into perspective for those that are undecided

 

[harv33173]

Yes or No

absolutely, positively no. i would not fire dale tallon!!!!!

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Everything I said was correct.So

Would you rather draft at the top of the draft or the bottom of the draft? We all know who was responsible for the Barkov pick. Huberdeau was definitely going top 5. Oh, what a risky pick!

Comparing Tallon to the worst of the worst GMs doesn't help your argument. Especially since I already said Tallon was better than them. I was relating the core of this team to being where they were picked, not the team overall. Try to keep up.

Smith was leading playoff scorer, one of top forwards in our Division year. March lead the team in goals despite bouncing around the lineup. Rowe had Smith in his doghouse. Rowe was a bad coach. If both got the same minutes they do in Vegas they would have produced more. That's not the point though. Funny you defend the indefensible. We're in a playoff spot if Tallon doesn't screw up the expansion draft.

LOL, not a guarantee is such a weak out. Yet you're so sure things would have been better if Tallon wasn't removed for a season.

If he's not an idiot for the expansion draft, what is he?

Why even make these statements? "we all know who was responsible for the Barkov pick." And I can easily say, know we do not know, now what? Yes Huberdeau was a top 5 pick, so was Larsson, so was Ryan Strome, what's your point?
"not a guarantee is such a weak out" well, if that helps you sleep better, whatever. Who knows how the dynamics of the team changes, who knows how they play as a team, who knows how Smith responds under this coaching. Who knows how any number things will go if you just drop those two in the lineup. This isn't a machine, you don't just get a certain performance with certain parts.
It's funny that you bring up indefensible, you're whole argument is based on speculation and conjecture, "We're in a playoff spot if Tallon doesn't screw up the expansion draft.", Tallon was the one that hired Boughner, what if someone else came in here and hired another Dallas Eakins? How close do we get to the playoffs if someone else came in here and did any number of other things that could have derailed this team? Do we even get close to the playoffs?
"We all know who was responsible for the Barkov pick.", and a whole lot more beautiful conjecture and other specutation like that from you.

 

[RainingRats]

Give it up.. your bias is showing and it's quite comical. His core doesn't count cause they ere high draft picks.. lol. If u can explain to me how every single other good team got their core pieces without high picks I'll take it back... this might be the funniest comment I've read on here... and sorry but tallon picked barkov.. he was the gm.. he listened to a scout and picked accordingly the same as 100% of the other teams run their draft... to state otherwise is pure bias and ignorance

It's not that it doesn't count, it's that it's not a noteworthy accomplishment to get core players when you have a top pick. You should be getting them there. That's the expectation for picking that high.

Yeah, that's my point. It's much more challenging to get core pieces outside the top 3 which makes it noteworthy unlike picking in the top 3. [mod]

 

[RainingRats]

Why even make these statements? "we all know who was responsible for the Barkov pick." And I can easily say, know we do not know, now what? Yes Huberdeau was a top 5 pick, so was Larsson, so was Ryan Strome, what's your point?
"not a guarantee is such a weak out" well, if that helps you sleep better, whatever. Who knows how the dynamics of the team changes, who knows how they play as a team, who knows how Smith responds under this coaching. Who knows how any number things will go if you just drop those two in the lineup. This isn't a machine, you don't just get a certain performance with certain parts.
It's funny that you bring up indefensible, you're whole argument is based on speculation and conjecture, "We're in a playoff spot if Tallon doesn't screw up the expansion draft.", Tallon was the one that hired Boughner, what if someone else came in here and hired another Dallas Eakins? How close do we get to the playoffs if someone else came in here and did any number of other things that could have derailed this team? Do we even get close to the playoffs?
"We all know who was responsible for the Barkov pick.", and a whole lot more beautiful conjecture and other specutation like that from you.

Except we do know who was responsible for the Barkov pick. This has been discussed countless times.

 

[vendetta]

It's not that it doesn't count, it's that it's not a noteworthy accomplishment to get core players when you have a top pick. You should be getting them there. That's the expectation for picking that high.

Yeah, that's my point. It's much more challenging to get core pieces outside the top 3 which makes it noteworthy unlike picking in the top 3. [mod]

Of course it is. That’s why every single other team in the league has its core pieces from top picks so your statement is irrelevant since it applies to everyone not just Tallon.

 

[RainingRats]

Of course it is. That’s why every single other team in the league has its core pieces from top picks so your statement is irrelevant since it applies to everyone not just Tallon.

Lol this makes no sense

 

[vendetta]

Except we do know who was responsible for the Barkov pick. This has been discussed countless times.

Yes we know who was responsible for the pick. Tallon. Tallon. He took info from a scout once again like every single other gm in the league does. Every other scout in the league Fights for their player. Tallon made the right choice

 

[vendetta]

Lol this makes no sense

What makes no sense? Name another who has gotten their core without high picks? I’ll wait

 

[Jakeybonz]

(the GM that we're all praising for fleecing Tallon traded Filip Forsberg for 62 games of washed up Martin Erat). (we made this mistake once with Gallant let's not again).

no one thinks GMGM fleeced tallon. we just think tallon moronically handed him 2 good players for nothing. if u hand me your life savings and I take it, I didn't rip u off.

as for not making the same mistake again, gallant and tallon are 2 different people. gallant is a good coach. firing him was a mistake. tallon is a not good GM. firing him would not be the same mistake.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Voted yes for the lols

 

[I am not exposed]

Dale has done some stupid moves but also some better ones. I don't really blame him for letting Smith go, he had an awful season and no one expected him to bounce back like he did. The way Dale handled March was of course questionable. He did however make some good moves: For example letting Gudbranson go, trading Kulikov, letting Jagr go etc. At least Tallon is doing something, instead of morons like Bergevin.

There were quite a few who thought he would bounce back actually. Just look at his career so far! He's probably come back down next season.

 

[I am not exposed]

Would a Vegas cup hurt us yes. I don't think it hurts Tallon no matter what happens. He shouldn't really be reflecting on the past, more looking to the future.

Although and this might not be a popular opinion. Kings massively underperformed and Vegas doesn't win the series if Fleury wasn't in net. I personally felt Vegas wasn't playing that well. Maybe they didn't have to. But anyways Brown missed 2 crucial wide open nets and that's why he doesn't wear the C anymore.

Vegas overall dominated LA.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

There were quite a few who thought he would bounce back actually. Just look at his career so far! He's probably come back down next season.

He probably will but I wonder how much actually. It's interesting as he sort of oscilates between a "too high" and "too low" shooting percentage (which almost exactly accounts for the differences between his seasons) but even accounting for that, this year he'd still have 53 points in 67 games, which is good for 65 points over a whole season. Although Karlsson's season is also inflating Smith's stats and he'll most likely come down quite a bit next year...
Well. Interesting

 

[vendetta]

Lol this makes no sense

Still waiting... u can admit your wrong if you like and try to save some face...

 

[RainingRats]

What makes no sense? Name another who has gotten their core without high picks? I’ll wait

I'll explain again and again because you're obviously not understanding which is no surprise.

It's not noteworthy or an accomplishment to build most of your core when you have top picks because you are expected to get core pieces picking in the top 3. Whereas GMs who have built their core outside of picking in the top 3 deserve significantly more credit for building their teams because it is much more challenging to find core pieces in the draft without a high draft pick. Therefore, Tallon doesn't get much credit for building the core of this team.

Does that make sense?

 

[RainingRats]

Of course our rebuild took a long time. Tallon whiffed on the 2010 NHL draft where we had 3 first round picks and 3 second round picks. That's three times the normal amount of picks! The 2010 NHL draft is what we sold off our best assets for and the draft that should have had the biggest impact on this franchise. Literally all we got out of that is a middle six forward and a bottom pairing d-man. We had 5 picks in the top 36, 7 picks in the top 69! When you sell off assets and then strike out on the assets you get in return, well what do you expect? That's what happens.

If he did a better job at that draft, we'd have a better team sooner.

And he didn't make enough good trades or free agent signings to accelerate things.

 

[vendetta]

I'll explain again and again because you're obviously not understanding which is no surprise.

It's not noteworthy or an accomplishment to build most of your core when you have top picks because you are expected to get core pieces picking in the top 3. Whereas GMs who have built their core outside of picking in the top 3 deserve significantly more credit for building their teams because it is much more challenging to find core pieces in the draft without a high draft pick. Therefore, Tallon doesn't get much credit for building the core of this team.

Does that make sense?

I'll explain again and again because you're obviously not understanding which is no surprise.

It's not noteworthy or an accomplishment to build most of your core when you have top picks because you are expected to get core pieces picking in the top 3. Whereas GMs who have built their core outside of picking in the top 3 deserve significantly more credit for building their teams because it is much more challenging to find core pieces in the draft without a high draft pick. Therefore, Tallon doesn't get much credit for building the core of this team.

Does that make sense?

No I understood. That's y I asked u to tell me which team built their core without top picks..

 

[vendetta]

Of course our rebuild took a long time. Tallon whiffed on the 2010 NHL draft where we had 3 first round picks and 3 second round picks. That's three times the normal amount of picks! The 2010 NHL draft is what we sold off our best assets for and the draft that should have had the biggest impact on this franchise. Literally all we got out of that is a middle six forward and a bottom pairing d-man. We had 5 picks in the top 36, 7 picks in the top 69! When you sell off assets and then strike out on the assets you get in return, well what do you expect? That's what happens.

If he did a better job at that draft, we'd have a better team sooner.

And he didn't make enough good trades or free agent signings to accelerate things.

Again the numbers say your statement that he struck out are false.. and being on a budget hampers trades and free agency obviously.. again 5 years isn't reasonable time to rebuild top to bottom.. but he had us in playoffs anyway.. this is fact.

 

[Jakeybonz]

Again the numbers say your statement that he struck out are false.. and being on a budget hampers trades and free agency obviously.. again 5 years isn't reasonable time to rebuild top to bottom.. but he had us in playoffs anyway.. this is fact.

he didn't make any genius moves to get us into the playoffs. we were a bad team in 11-12 and lucked our way in with OTLs. we were a decent team in 15-16 and overachieved like crazy. he gave us 2 playoff appearances in 7 yrs. that's really nothing to brag about. dales legacy will be bringing a stanley cup to vegas.

 

[Crossbar]

Vegas Golden Knights are all the proof you need to see any team in the league can be a quality playoff team with a competent GM/scouting staff and a good coach running the show....no top picks acquired, only castoffs teams deemed expendable or wanted to clear cap space.