GDT: World Juniors

[A Star is Burns]

I find it interesting that Bean has gotten a lot of remarks for rough play, and he deserves it, but I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that Kuokkanen didn't really produce anything. Is it because Bean plays for the more high profile team, and Finland was pretty rough this year? Or does it reflect that many people were not on board with the Bean pick and everyone seemed to universally love the Kuokkanen pick? Again, I'm not saying Bean didn't deserve the comments, and I don't think the tournament really tarnishes either in my mind for a number of reasons, just thought it was interesting.

 

[DaveG]

I think team expectations have a lot to do with it. Canada was expected to be the best team rather easily here even without the likely #1 pick this year. On the other hand Finland was expected to have a huuuuuuuuuuge dropoff from last year, though still better then they did for sure.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I think team expectations have a lot to do with it. Canada was expected to be the best team rather easily here even without the likely #1 pick this year. On the other hand Finland was expected to have a huuuuuuuuuuge dropoff from last year, though still better then they did for sure.

Add to that Bean was a mid first and Kukkonen was a mid 2nd. Huge difference in expectations on that alone between the two. I think we also have to remember that Bean is on the younger side so he's got another WJC in him in all likelihood (unless he really falls off).

 

[The Faulker 27]

Bean or Bust

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

i still have the same complaint i did on the day of the draft

sure, handedness doesnt matter, but all things equal youd draft for need

then consider the fact that all things arent equal, and mcavoys just a better defenseman in the first place


we draft mcavoy and gauthier, we are talking about this draft being a franchise changer the same way 2010 was

we have bean and gauthier, and its just kinda like "meh"

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

i still have the same complaint i did on the day of the draft

sure, handedness doesnt matter, but all things equal youd draft for need

then consider the fact that all things arent equal, and mcavoys just a better defenseman in the first place


we draft mcavoy and gauthier, we are talking about this draft being a franchise changer the same way 2010 was

we have bean and gauthier, and its just kinda like "meh"

I don't think that's a "fact", in terms of how they were viewed at the draft (or more importantly, how they'll end up at the NHL level), it's an opinion, and one not widely held at draft time. The Canes management weren't of that opinion, because they chose Bean over McAvoy. I personally liked McAvoy over Bean, but that was based on scant information on my part. That said, virtually every scouting and media organization had Bean>McAvoy at the time of the draft, so it's not like the Canes went off the reservation here:

TSN (McKenzie): Bean-12, McAvoy-14
McKeens: Bean-10, McAvoy-12
NA Scouting Centeral: Bean-12, McAvoy-24
Button: Bean-12; McAvoy-15
ISS: Bean-16; McAvoy-23
The Hockey News: Bean-16, McAvoy-18
Pronmann: Bean-19; McAvoy-26

Maybe McAvoy, Chychrun, Bellows, Kunin, Fabbro etc.. will end up being better players in the end, but at the time of the draft, Bean was viewed as the higher rated player.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I don't think that's a "fact", in terms of how they were viewed at the draft (or more importantly, how they'll end up at the NHL level), it's an opinion, and one not widely held at draft time. The Canes management weren't of that opinion, because they chose Bean over McAvoy. I personally liked McAvoy over Bean, but that was based on scant information on my part. That said, virtually every scouting and media organization had Bean>McAvoy at the time of the draft, so it's not like the Canes went off the reservation here:

TSN (McKenzie): Bean-12, McAvoy-14
McKeens: Bean-10, McAvoy-12
NA Scouting Centeral: Bean-12, McAvoy-24
Button: Bean-12; McAvoy-15
ISS: Bean-16; McAvoy-23
The Hockey News: Bean-16, McAvoy-18
Pronmann: Bean-19; McAvoy-26

Maybe McAvoy, Chychrun, Bellows, Kunin, Fabbro etc.. will end up being better players in the end, but at the time of the draft, Bean was viewed as the higher rated player.

it is a fact that all things arent equal

like, metaphysically and philosophically speaking

but i get your point

i still didnt like the pick

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

So Kuokkanen doesn't have a single point in five games thus far. Finlands last game will be tonight if they can beat Latvia again.

I know the team is a dumpster fire but what a disappointing tournament for Kuokkanen.

Edit: somehow I missed you guys already talking about this. Brian fart.

 

[geehaad]

It's more difficult to be disappointed in Kuokkanen due to his performance so far with London. Bean doesn't have that what-have-you-done-lately basis yet.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

It's more difficult to be disappointed in Kuokkanen due to his performance so far with London. Bean doesn't have that what-have-you-done-lately basis yet.

Bean hasn't played a lot of games this year and I haven't seen any of them but statistically speaking he's been good. 10 points in 8 games.

I think Kuokkanen's performance in London is even more of a reason for me to expect more from him. He's capable of way more and not showing it.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Bean hasn't played a lot of games this year and I haven't seen any of them but statistically speaking he's been good. 10 points in 8 games.

I think Kuokkanen's performance in London is even more of a reason for me to expect more from him. He's capable of way more and not showing it.

Yep, that's kind of my perspective. Bean is coming back from an injury, but has produced in his league even since coming back, where maybe not being in perfect form is a bit more forgiving than the WJC. People have been hyped with Kuokkanen in London, and he's produced quite well and should be in top form, and he didn't produce at all in this tournament, but there wasn't a peep. Expectations do play into it from a draft position perspective, but I think people judge Bean quite harshly on this tournament because he wasn't their preferred pick, whereas people wanted Kuokkanen because he was a Finn from a team we just got a great pick from, so he got a pass.

 

[GoldiFox]

Playing poorly on a great team is always worse than playing poorly on a dumpster fire of a team. Bean has been a total dud this tournament for a guy that was supposed to be the premier offensive D for Canada.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

but i get your point

i still didnt like the pick

I honestly didn't know enough about Bean to like or dislike the pick. I did like McAvoy better based on just bits of viewing and information, but it was an uninformed view on my part.

I was definitely very surprised by the pick though as I fully expected a forward. I can see the team's rationale for why they picked a D first. Their view as that the top tier of forwards were already drafted and they felt that the next tier (which Gauthier was in) would be there for their 2nd pick in the draft. Also, that there would be a "run" on D (which there was) so this way they got the D they wanted and one of the forwards they wanted.

I just hope Bean pans out.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Playing poorly on a great team is always worse than playing poorly on a dumpster fire of a team. Bean has been a total dud this tournament for a guy that was supposed to be the premier offensive D for Canada.

I don't know about that. I thought it was pretty well known Chabot was the #1 guy going in.

With regards to Kukkonen and even Bean to a lesser extent, poor production in a short touramemt doesn't necessarily mean anything. Rask didn't do **** all in his draft +1 WJC for example.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Playing poorly on a great team is always worse than playing poorly on a dumpster fire of a team. Bean has been a total dud this tournament for a guy that was supposed to be the premier offensive D for Canada.

I suppose that's one way to look at it, but probably not as factual as you make it out. The other being that plenty of guys score when put in a higher role on a bad team than they would on a stacked team. We've had guys for years put up numbers on this awful team that either don't on other teams that are better, or can't even make those teams. At the end of the day, Kuokkanen is part of that dumpster fire, and provided no production, in spite of the fact he should be in full form based on his play this year.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don't know about that. I thought it was pretty well known Chabot was the #1 guy going in.

With regards to Kukkonen and even Bean to a lesser extent, poor production in a short touramemt doesn't necessarily mean anything. Rask didn't do **** all in his draft +1 WJC for example.

I agree with that as well. I said earlier I don't think this has much bearing on the rest of their seasons or their standings as prospects. I just thought it was interesting that Kuokkanen gets his tires pumped quite a bit for his production in London, but nobody said anything about his play in this tournament. I do think both will be fine going forward, and if they don't make it eventually, it will have zero to do with how they performed in this tournament.

 

[NotOpie]

I'm an avowed Kuokkanen fan and didn't mind the Bean pick after the dust settled. I just felt we remained weaker at forward than on the back end, hence I wanted two forwards in the 1st round. If we were to take a defender in our 1st 100 picks, I'd have easily waited and used one of the 3rd rounders on one of the RHDs that I liked (Luke Green, Jordan Sambrook).

As far as Kuokkanen's performance at the WJCs, I'm less concerned as he's basically the only real offensive talent on that team. The competition is likely keying on him in a near exclusive fashion in that regard. Sure, I'd like to have seen him produce despite that, but it's not a concern for me. He's got much better players around him in London than he's got on Team Finland. That's only a little knock on the Finns as most of their guys are young and still developing.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Finland up 3-1 now and Kuokkanen got a secondary assist.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Finland avoids elimination with a 4-1 win taking the series 2 games to none. Game was tied going into the third and Finland scored three.

Kuokkanen finishes the tournament with one secondary assist.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I hate games going to shootout at this point in a tournament, but heck of a win for USA.

 

[Lucky Lindy]

Come on now Sweden!

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Go Canada!

No clue what to expect. Wouldn't be surprised with a 5-3 win for either team.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

ha ha...

TSN: "Let's take a look and listen" (as the team was getting ready to hit the ice)
Someone on Team Canada: "Let's give em a one way ticket back to ****ing Stockholm"

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Team Canada definitely trying to play very physical. Roy with a big hit, then some shoving after a stoppage.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I like what I see so far. Except for Bean and Juulsen playing against swedens top line which is the highest scoring line in the tournament I believe.

Pp time.