GDT: WJC: Germany vs Czech Republic | Dec 27th | 7PM

[Kleefeld]

Gotta feel good for Germany, I hope wins like this just grow the sport more there. I’ll be rootin for ‘em the rest of the tourney.

Nobody in Germany except for a few die-hards was watching.
The only thing growing hockey in Germany are the Olympics, that's the only time people that otherwise don't really watch the sport would watch it.

 

[lamini]

Yeah, 2009-2012 (cca) were much worse years. Also, we shouldn't forget that hockey in Germany is on rise. This team Germany is definitely no underdog, they have shown vs. Finland already that they are capable of playing good hockey.

Well, 2012 team beat USA and in QF lost to Russia in OT. If you speak about draft years I'm afraid 2019-2021 can end almost as bad as 2008-2010.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Nobody in Germany except for a few die-hards was watching.
The only thing growing hockey in Germany are the Olympics, that's the only time people that otherwise don't really watch the sport would watch it.

Do you have any evidence towards this, or..?

 

[Swipes]

...And it's any different now?

Czech prospects might be objectively better than they were in the past, but that applies to every other nation. The results are godawful, I refuse to believe there has been a worse season than this one when it comes to the Czech national teams, all age groups combined. The sport is borderline unwatchable for a Czech fan at this point.

As I said, the end result is the same but overall our players look better than they did back then. If its almost unwatchable for you now, I can't imagine what it might have been for you back then. You just don't know what it was like watching a 10-1 thrashing to Sweden...

Of course, a lot of work is still to be done, and by no means do I think we should be satisfied with this. Absolutely not. But let's not fall in too much negativity. There are some good upcoming prospects from 2005 and later right?

 

[Swipes]

Our last 3 teams should produce at least 3 NHL Dmen.. minimum. That's basically more than the last decade!

Svozil, Jiricek, Krutil, Kral, Has, Kubicek, Spacek, Moravec, Zabransky, Galvas

Good chance 3 of these guys make it..

There was that one year group where we also thought we had a strong defensive core (1998), but none made it. Vala, budik, hajek. I hope that this one fares better.

 

[Zamboni Parade]

Nobody in Germany except for a few die-hards was watching.
The only thing growing hockey in Germany are the Olympics, that's the only time people that otherwise don't really watch the sport would watch it.

Do you have any evidence towards this, or..?

I think that's a fair assessment. 9 out of 10 people here will have never heard of the WJHC, less than that will know we play in it, less then that will care, less than that will watch.
Most casual winter sports fans probably associate the Christmas/New Year's period with the Four Hills Tournament, which incidentally I think is starting today? Anyway, the World Juniors is like a niche within a niche, even more so when it's held in North America to NA time zones.

 

[Goodman68]

As I said, the end result is the same but overall our players look better than they did back then. If its almost unwatchable for you now, I can't imagine what it might have been for you back then. You just don't know what it was like watching a 10-1 thrashing to Sweden...

Of course, a lot of work is still to be done, and by no means do I think we should be satisfied with this. Absolutely not. But let's not fall in too much negativity. There are some good upcoming prospects from 2005 and later right?

I remember it well, it's true that maybe it was even worse then. But we have to see the reality, this German team lacked its best players. The quality shows especially in overpowering games and they showed absolutely nothing there. The team is just average, just like ours, it's terribly far behind the quality of top teams. Canada lost by 2 goals, but it was still clear that we could not win the match, we were clearly worse from the beginning.
But most of all, I'm sorry that we are impotent even against the teams of the second sequence, we have no pressure, we will not create any clean chance. We had the only chance after the mistakes of the opponents from the breaks. The best attackers on the team (and are they the best?) are invisible. It is a really sad picture of Czech hockey that he is not able to play such an opponent. I lied for a long, long time, but I stopped enjoying it.
And what's next (04, 05 ..)? The sad reality is that even though it seems that there is a lot of offensive talent in year 05, for example, in 2.3 years we will lose performance compared to other teams. Will it be different this time ..?

 

[majormajor]

I think that's a fair assessment. 9 out of 10 people here will have never heard of the WJHC, less than that will know we play in it, less then that will care, less than that will watch.
Most casual winter sports fans probably associate the Christmas/New Year's period with the Four Hills Tournament, which incidentally I think is starting today? Anyway, the World Juniors is like a niche within a niche, even more so when it's held in North America to NA time zones.

WJC is a little bit of a new thing everywhere. Before TSN started marketing it as a huge event a couple decades ago, nobody knew about it in Canada either. It was like the U-18s or U-whatevers, I suppose. So while interest in hockey is certainly lower in Central Europe, this tournament in particular is maybe not the best way to measure that.

 

[Albatros]

It's Hockey Canada's own little cash cow. Even the junior competitions in soccer aren't that popular in Germany, this tournament will never be noted.

 

[RBbandit]

. It is a really sad picture of Czech hockey that he is not able to play such an opponent.

That's just my feeling too. No disrespect to the German team (as I have family ties to Germany), but if you can not win with the German team without Reichel, Peterka, and Stützle then it's just sad (and we frankly didn't deserve to win). What is even worse is that there is no light at the end of the tunnel for Czech hockey.

 

[Wooren]

Our last 3 teams should produce at least 3 NHL Dmen.. minimum. That's basically more than the last decade!

Svozil, Jiricek, Krutil, Kral, Has, Kubicek, Spacek, Moravec, Zabransky, Galvas

Good chance 3 of these guys make it..

Half the names you mentioned have zero or very limited NHL upside.

As I said, the end result is the same but overall our players look better than they did back then. If its almost unwatchable for you now, I can't imagine what it might have been for you back then. You just don't know what it was like watching a 10-1 thrashing to Sweden...

Of course, a lot of work is still to be done, and by no means do I think we should be satisfied with this. Absolutely not. But let's not fall in too much negativity. There are some good upcoming prospects from 2005 and later right?

You are right, I don't know what it was like watching the 1-10 trashing, I do know however what it was like to watch the 1-7, 0-7, 1-11 and 3-10 trashings that all took place over the last year. What a difference.

Prospects from "2005 and later" only look promising due to how young they are. As soon as they enter the U18 season, they will all become hopeless, just like every single generation prior to them. Be my guest and hope for better days, but there is literally not single thing that would suggest such days are to come. The only thing a Czech fan can cheer for these days is Jiricek and shockingly enough, it's him that suffers the serious injury. Watch it completely derail his promising career, would be only fitting to watch the best Czech defenseman prospect in 15-20 years bust due to freak injury.

 

[BigBadBoar]

Well, 2012 team beat USA and in QF lost to Russia in OT. If you speak about draft years I'm afraid 2019-2021 can end almost as bad as 2008-2010.

The 2012 team was comparable to this year. They had Petr Mrázek in the net plus young Tomáš Hertl, but also couple of defensemen who never made it to be even decent Extraliga players. I remember that game vs. the US, it was a lot about Mrázek's performance.

Also, I really wouldn't underestimate Germany this year. They are good, many people were considering them on the level with Austria prior to the tournament, but now I think it is apparent the Germany - Austria difference is brutal. Even the FIN - GER game was anything but one-sided, Finland won but it was quite a close game. Losing to Germany in overtime of course is a pity because it means we have only one point from that game and they have two. But it definitely doesn't mean we are complete trash or something. Especially some Czech fans (not at this forum) are still living in the year 2000, when an above average Extraliga team would be expected to beat teams like Germany on the senior level. But this is a distant past now.

 

[Swipes]

Half the names you mentioned have zero or very limited NHL upside.


You are right, I don't know what it was like watching the 1-10 trashing, I do know however what it was like to watch the 1-7, 0-7, 1-11 and 3-10 trashings that all took place over the last year. What a difference.

Prospects from "2005 and later" only look promising due to how young they are. As soon as they enter the U18 season, they will all become hopeless, just like every single generation prior to them. Be my guest and hope for better days, but there is literally not single thing that would suggest such days are to come. The only thing a Czech fan can cheer for these days is Jiricek and shockingly enough, it's him that suffers the serious injury. Watch it completely derail his promising career, would be only fitting to watch the best Czech defenseman prospect in 15-20 years bust due to freak injury.

I wasn't aware of how badly we've been losing. If that's the case, then it's very worrisome, disappointing and very frustrating. But ultimately nothing new compared to back then, as you say. All I can say is that we look better imo, but it's obviously still not enough given that we've had 10 years to make it better!

I do not know why we struggle so much with players after they turn 18. The stats are very clear: I think we're like 8 metres behind other nations when skating in a straight line for a certain number of metres. There are other worrying stats too. Unfortunately hoping for better days is all I have (and perhaps many others too). But you are right that the outlook is not optimistic, I do not disagree. I just really can't understand why we can't fix the issue with U-18 development and beyond. Cutting down the number of teams in the ELJ would help but if 97% of people have come across corruption/favouritism in Czech hockey from a poll of > 3000 people then that's the least of our problems.....

Regarding Jiricek, it's very worrying. Hertl has never been the same since his knee injury imo. I just really hope it's not that serious. We need to have someone to cheer for!

 

[Pandaman11]

Honestly, this loss doesn't really matter for the Czechs.

3th or 4th in the group doesn't make a difference for the quarterfinals.
6th or 7th in the final standings doesn't make a difference for the seeding of next year's groups (unless Slovakia can get 1 points vs Russia and/or there's an upset in the quarterfinal).

Nonetheless, losing to a team that was without Stützle, Reichel and Peterka is a new low. But you've got used to new lows over the past 15 or so years, I guess.

 

[lamini]

The 2012 team was comparable to this year. They had Petr Mrázek in the net plus young Tomáš Hertl, but also couple of defensemen who never made it to be even decent Extraliga players. I remember that game vs. the US, it was a lot about Mrázek's performance.

That's what I mean. The post I qouted said they were worse than this year. 2012 was similar to this year, the only difference may be hot Mrazek vs injured Jiříček...but in 10 years after another crap WJC game we may say "this year is not as weak as 2021, they had Svozil and Jiříček, but also couple of guys who never made it to be even decent Extraliga players."

It's something like 20 years since we started fixing our development and only thing that realy changed is that fans care less and less.

 

[Swipes]

The 2012 team was comparable to this year. They had Petr Mrázek in the net plus young Tomáš Hertl, but also couple of defensemen who never made it to be even decent Extraliga players. I remember that game vs. the US, it was a lot about Mrázek's performance.

Also, I really wouldn't underestimate Germany this year. They are good, many people were considering them on the level with Austria prior to the tournament, but now I think it is apparent the Germany - Austria difference is brutal. Even the FIN - GER game was anything but one-sided, Finland won but it was quite a close game. Losing to Germany in overtime of course is a pity because it means we have only one point from that game and they have two. But it definitely doesn't mean we are complete trash or something. Especially some Czech fans (not at this forum) are still living in the year 2000, when an above average Extraliga team would be expected to beat teams like Germany on the senior level. But this is a distant past now.

Yeah Mrazek was great. That was the first time in ages we beat a top team. It was a memorable game. I think the team was a bit better back then. Scoring goals was not a massive issue from what I remember. Hertl was better than any forward we have now imo. Jaskin was pretty good too.

I think the Germans have improved a lot. While they have closed the gap we haven't managed to increase it.

 

[Swipes]

That's what I mean. The post I qouted said they were worse than this year. 2012 was similar to this year, the only difference may be hot Mrazek vs injured Jiříček...but in 10 years after another crap WJC game we may say "this year is not as weak as 2021, they had Svozil and Jiříček, but also couple of guys who never made it to be even decent Extraliga players."

It's something like 20 years since we started fixing our development and only thing that realy changed is that fans care less and less.

It's pretty grim. Especially when coupled with the recent articles on the web about the state our hockey.

 

[lamini]

It's pretty grim. Especially when coupled with the recent articles on the web about the state our hockey.

After 2012 I thought that we are getting back to our spot in TOP 6...there was Mrazek who looked like our first true nr. 1 goalie since Vokoun, Faksa, Hertl, Jaskin who looked like future NHLers and some other guys that I thought may make it (surprisingly it was Nosek who did)...than there was Pastrnaks group, Necas, Kaut, Zadina, Lauko, Jenik...and we are getting nowhere, just few guys every year that develop despite the system, not thanks to it. I feel people here care less and less and responsible people are happy with how things are.

 

[Swipes]

After 2012 I thought that we are getting back to our spot in TOP 6...there was Mrazek who looked like our first true nr. 1 goalie since Vokoun, Faksa, Hertl, Jaskin who looked like future NHLers and some other guys that I thought may make it (surprisingly it was Nosek who did)...than there was Pastrnaks group, Necas, Kaut, Zadina, Lauko, Jenik...and we are getting nowhere, just few guys every year that develop despite the system, not thanks to it. I feel people here care less and less and responsible people are happy with how things are.

Yeah it always looked like there was something better over the horizon but there never was. The silence from the hockey association speaks volumes - they're happy with how things are and just don't care. So who does care? And can we find enough people who do who can make a difference?

 

[RBbandit]

Yes, the new thing is that fans care less and less as even everyday fans can clearly see there is no way anything will change with current "apparatchiks" in the position of power. From time to time some young kid will succeed but it's rather in spite of the system than because of the system. Still, remember Lener's strong plans "new system like Sweden" but it's almost 10 years, and while some improvement was made other countries improved at least twice as much.

 

[Czechboy]

There was that one year group where we also thought we had a strong defensive core (1998), but none made it. Vala, budik, hajek. I hope that this one fares better.

Or Masin-Zboril

That didn't pan out either and now Zboril is hurt.

It's why I said to pick 3.lol

 

[Czechboy]

Half the names you mentioned have zero or very limited NHL upside.

I named 10 guys.. and said 3 could make the NHL. Assuming Jiricek is a lock, just need 2 out of 9. I like my odds.

 

[Swipes]

I named 10 guys.. and said 3 could make the NHL. Assuming Jiricek is a lock, just need 2 out of 9. I like my odds.

But according to Wooren, half of those 10 won't make it. If he's right and if Jiricek makes it, then it's 2/4 rather than 2/9. The other may be Svozil, but I am not sure about any others.

 

[Czechboy]

But according to Wooren, half of those 10 won't make it. If he's right and if Jiricek makes it, then it's 2/4 rather than 2/9. The other may be Svozil, but I am not sure about any others.

If half don't make it.. then 5 did. Thats more than I guessed! Perfect.

Jiricek, Svozil and Galvas are my guesses for the 3 on my list of 10 that make it.

Then Kral.

 

[Czechboy]

If half don't make it.. then 5 did. Thats more than I guessed! Perfect.

Jiricek, Svozil and Galvas are my guesses for the 3 on my list of 10 that make it.

Then Kral.

I should also say I was certain Has would make it and it was a crime not to draft Kliklorka or Kubicek. All 3 aren't tracking the best right now.