Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent IV: Live Free or Be Discontented

[Discoverer]

I see it as the FO thought the opportunity to get a player like Yelich with his affordability and control was too great to not put your best foot forward. Players like him with his control arent available often so they would acquire the player if possible and worry about fit after - similar how the Brewers went after him with OF not being a need. It was all about the player, availability timing and cost more so the position he plays. That's how i think they viewed Yelich vs someone like Cain- regardless of who we had, Yelich was always an option whether we had Grichuk or not. Not that they dont like Cain but players like him are available every off-season (30+ 4-5 WAR player) vs a 26 year old 4-5 WAR player with 5 years of control. Just my two cents.

They would make the exception for Yelich's case but i agree with you guys that i dont see them adding another OF unless it is a ridiculous bargain or a great opportunity player-wise.

I don't disagree with any of this. If you think you can get a good deal on Yelich, having Randal Grichuk shouldn't stop you. I just think it's more likely that Grichuk was a backup plan and that they moved on to him when they realized the Marlins weren't going to budge off of Vlad.

 

[phillipmike]

I don't disagree with any of this. If you think you can get a good deal on Yelich, having Randal Grichuk shouldn't stop you. I just think it's more likely that Grichuk was a backup plan and that they moved on to him when they realized the Marlins weren't going to budge off of Vlad.

Definitely. If they got Yelich i think it meant Pillar was gone. Or they could have gone Pillar in CF, Yelich in RF and platoon Granderson and Grichuk in LF and after Granderson leaves in 2019 Grichuk is your fulltime LFer or even CF if they were inclined to deal Pillar. A lot of possibilities.

Really would have loved to be a fly on the wall to see what the Jays were offering for Yelich - i am sure it was;

Yelich for Bichette+
OR
Yelich and Salary for No Vladdy or Bichette

Really wonder if we were offering to take guys like Ziegler, Castro, or Tazawa or Chen and Prado. Too bad, Yelich would have been a coup especially if we got him with no Vlady or Bichette - could have been a Donaldson-esque trade for us.

 

[BlueForever75]

Yelich ship has sailed. Who cares. Just glad we still have Vlad and Bo to go along with Alford, Janssen, McGuire, Pearson, SRF, etc..etc..

By 2020 we have an opportunity to have a lineup with Vlad, Bo, Alford, SRF, Burocki, Pannone, Janssen along with Travis, Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Hernandez, Grichuk and maybe Donaldson and Smoak!!!! That's a killer lineup.

Not to mention Morales and Martin of the books, and in the last year of Tulo's deal that will cost only 9 million that season.

Things are looking on the up regardless of what happens this season or next.

 

[canucksfan]

2018 Organizational Talent Rankings | BaseballAmerica.com

How are the Yanks that high?

 

[Discoverer]

Definitely. If they got Yelich i think it meant Pillar was gone. Or they could have gone Pillar in CF, Yelich in RF and platoon Granderson and Grichuk in LF and after Granderson leaves in 2019 Grichuk is your fulltime LFer or even CF if they were inclined to deal Pillar. A lot of possibilities.

Really would have loved to be a fly on the wall to see what the Jays were offering for Yelich - i am sure it was;

Yelich for Bichette+
OR
Yelich and Salary for No Vladdy or Bichette

Really wonder if we were offering to take guys like Ziegler, Castro, or Tazawa or Chen and Prado. Too bad, Yelich would have been a coup especially if we got him with no Vlady or Bichette - could have been a Donaldson-esque trade for us.

This is one of those situations where I would love to know more about how discussions actually went.

Obviously we have no idea what the actual ask was, so there's probably a lot more to it, but it seems weird that it fell apart at least in part because the Marlins weren't willing to budge from Vlad even though Bichette is a better prospect than the top piece they got from the Brewers. They probably just valued the respective players differently, but it seems on the surface like the Marlins were just set on getting the top prospect from whichever team they dealt with so it wouldn't look like they settled for inferior pieces again.

 

[canucksfan]

And I don't think this is something scouts would disagree with too much, tbh. If they re-drafted last year's draft right now, I think Pearson would likely be picked right near the top of the draft, while the likes of Warmoth and Danner would drop down considerably.

I think Warmoth had a decent year. I would have liked to see more from him. However, always tough to judge a player on half a year. He will likely start in Lansing this year so after a full year it will be easier to make a judgement. Danner is still young and he did have a poor year. I wonder if they switch him to pitcher?

Out of all three though Pearson looks the most promising.

While it is a few months away I am exciting to follow the Jays prospects again.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Yelich ship has sailed. Who cares. Just glad we still have Vlad and Bo to go along with Alford, Janssen, McGuire, Pearson, SRF, etc..etc..

By 2020 we have an opportunity to have a lineup with Vlad, Bo, Alford, SRF, Burocki, Pannone, Janssen along with Travis, Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Hernandez, Grichuk and maybe Donaldson and Smoak!!!! That's a killer lineup.

Not to mention Morales and Martin of the books, and in the last year of Tulo's deal that will cost only 9 million that season.

Things are looking on the up regardless of what happens this season or next.

I also like the future of this franchise specifically because of Vlad and Bichette. That's 2 potential corner stone pieces.

I believe Atkins knows the team isn't good enough to really compete this season. At the same time he has been told by his bosses they can't mail it in because they want to still have good attendance and prospects aren't quite ready to be promoted (and marketed).

I predict this team will be a seller by the deadline then youngsters will start getting promoting and then they can start marketing the youth late this season and into the next. But the team won't be a good team till at least 2020.

Good chance all of the guys with 1 year left on their deals in Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, Pearce, Granderson are traded out for futures by this deadline as well as a few others with term.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I also like the future of this franchise specifically because of Vlad and Bichette. That's 2 potential corner stone pieces.

I believe Atkins knows the team isn't good enough to really compete this season. At the same time he has been told by his bosses they can't mail it in because they want to still have good attendance and prospects aren't quite ready to be promoted (and marketed).

I predict this team will be a seller by the deadline then youngsters will start getting promoting and then they can start marketing the youth late this season and into the next. But the team won't be a good team till at least 2020.

Good chance all of the guys with 1 year left on their deals in Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, Pearce, Granderson are traded out for futures by this deadline as well as a few others with term.

That hypothetical 2019 sure does get crapped on a lot.

 

[Discoverer]

That hypothetical 2019 sure does get crapped on a lot.

I think it's just perceived as post-Donaldson and pre-Vlad/Bo.

 

[BlueForever75]

I have no issue with 2019 being a rebuild year. If it means what we have continue to get better and we can continue to add at the deadline this season if we are out of it. I am all for it.

I am in hopes we have a good season this season but fall short which will mean players like Donaldson, Estrada, Happ, Pearce and Granderson have good seasons. Trade them away for the best possible haul. Piece together a roster for 2019. Go for it in 2020 when youngsters come up and complement them with good vets on short deals. We will have the money to do so.

 

[Anthrax442]

i gotta buy me a Cleveland hat before it's too late

 

[Nineteen67]

i gotta buy me a Cleveland hat before it's too late

I hear you.

 

[Kurtz]

That hypothetical 2019 sure does get crapped on a lot.

In 2019 the Red Sox should still be good and we'll still be on the hook for Martin @$20 mil, Kendrys@11 and Tulo at 20.

After 2019 though, things start to get real good. Martin and Kendrys are off the cap and Tulo's contract goes from $20m to $14m. Vlad, Bo, Pearson, Alford, maybe Pardinho, hopefully Jansen will be ready to contribute. Meanwhile, Boston will have Sale and Bogaerts hitting free agency, and a 34-year old Price ready to fall off the cliff for good.

 

[Woodman19]

Royals moving out Moss, making room for Morales?

 

[oilers89]

Royals moving out Moss, making room for Morales?

Maybe this goes off of what Blaiir was saying. Jays add another OF bat.
Morales to KC with us eating most of the salary. And we Add a guy like Carlos Gonzalez.

Cargo/granderson/Pearce/pillar/grichuk. 3 in outfield 1 dh. One off bench any given day

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Maybe this goes off of what Blaiir was saying. Jays add another OF bat.
Morales to KC with us eating most of the salary. And we Add a guy like Carlos Gonzalez.

Cargo/granderson/Pearce/pillar/grichuk. 3 in outfield 1 dh. One off bench any given day

Why not use Hernandez? Get him some playing time in a good transition role? Rather than spend more (likely decently significant) money on a position with a ton of depth as it is?

Trade Morales and Carrera. Rotate Granderson, Pillar, Grichuk and Hernandez. Have Pearce be there occasionally in case of emergency, but otherwise he DH's, backs up Smoak or maybe goes the occasional other place if necessary if he is not providing good depth off of the bench.

 

[TF97]

If Morales can magically be moved, I personally would be going after Morrison over another outfielder. Yes, you’d be locking in multiple years to another 1B/DH bat, but Morrison has put up over a 130 wRC+ since the all-star break last season and given this years market, I think there is a good deal to be had with him.

Personally, I’m buying into the fly ball heavy version of LoMo. But I can definitely see why most of you will likely disagree given the disaster that Morales was last season.

 

[dredeye]

Royals moving out Moss, making room for Morales?

do they have any garbage contracts they need to move? I'll dig but can't think of any off hand

 

[Gargyn]

Kansas City moves Moss to shed salary as they are seriously trimming payroll so why would they want Morales? And if we ate all the salary, then it won't magically give us more money to spend because we are still paying for Morales. I'm afraid we are stuck with him.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

do they have any garbage contracts they need to move? I'll dig but can't think of any off hand

Wasn't Hammel a name thrown around? 9 mill this year + another 12 next year if his option is picked up, or a 2 mill buyout that is mutual.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kansas City moves Moss to shed salary as they are seriously trimming payroll so why would they want Morales? And if we ate all the salary, then it won't magically give us more money to spend because we are still paying for Morales. I'm afraid we are stuck with him.

They need hitters, and while Morales was not amazing, he was a fair bit better than Moss last year.

Jays would not have to eat the full 23 mill unless they gave something good in return, and it would still open up a roster spot, which has value on its own.

Hammel for Morales + prospects + eating some money; prospects likely are not significant unless you do not eat much money. Jays get pitching, Royals get a power hitter.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If Morales can magically be moved, I personally would be going after Morrison over another outfielder. Yes, you’d be locking in multiple years to another 1B/DH bat, but Morrison has put up over a 130 wRC+ since the all-star break last season and given this years market, I think there is a good deal to be had with him.

Personally, I’m buying into the fly ball heavy version of LoMo. But I can definitely see why most of you will likely disagree given the disaster that Morales was last season.

I'd say the flexibility is far more valuable. Between Smoak, Donaldson and hopefully Grichuk, you have some good power hitters and a few others with some who can hit for decent power as well (Pearce for example). It's not the mashers of the Bautista and EE era, but I think the team moves away in favour of speed and OBP. That open DH spot gives a good bench player a job even when they are not filling in for injuries (Pearce, Solarte, Diaz, maybe Hernandez), and can give someone like Donaldson a rest without entirely taking him out of the lineup.

Also moving out Morales would likely be less about opening up money than it would be a spot. So signing someone who would essentially be the same type of player does not make much sense when the Jays can just give Morales another shot to turn things around in the same role. Unless the Jays are aiming for a better return, they do likely free up some cash, but it would not be more than a couple of million. They may even take on more cash if it meant getting a guy who can help now. So the roster flexibility would be their main focus more than anything.

 

[Belieber]

Morales is such a burden, can’t field a position, can’t run the bases, ruins line up flexibility in an era where that is very important. I don’t care how they get rid of him just find a way. I’d gladly take an innings eating type starter for him.

 

[Nineteen67]

If Morales can’t be moved, why not just release him and free up a spot. If he’s as bad as some of you say, he won’t be in the lineup anyway.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

If Morales can magically be moved, I personally would be going after Morrison over another outfielder. Yes, you’d be locking in multiple years to another 1B/DH bat, but Morrison has put up over a 130 wRC+ since the all-star break last season and given this years market, I think there is a good deal to be had with him.

Personally, I’m buying into the fly ball heavy version of LoMo. But I can definitely see why most of you will likely disagree given the disaster that Morales was last season.

The freed up resources are likely best used on the rotation. I'm a buyer of LoMo too, though. Someone is going to get a bargain.

do they have any garbage contracts they need to move? I'll dig but can't think of any off hand

They have several. The Blue Jays could happily be rid of Morales if they took back Ian Kennedy in a 1 for 1. Could probably get two 45FV prospects as well. That, of course, would not be the best use of resources (unless you really loved those prospects).

The Hammel swap makes much more sense from a Blue Jays perspective.