Winnipeg media == Shills for TNSE?

[BigZ65]

So essentialy what you are saying is the media is telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth they need to hear. And how is that okay? They even make a joke about this in Anchorman 2

I don't think that was as much of a joke as a comment on how the media or "journalism" has completely moved away from their purpose in favour of selling advertising and making money. It was a deep moment for Anchorman 2.

Just watch CNN and the missing plane, or ESPN and Tim Tebow. The "news" media is absolutely catering to what the audience will watch over what is true or important.

 

[JetsFan815]

It sucks that it is this way but you are TOTALLY overreacting with the disgusted and grossed out line.

What would you have them do?

If they don't tow the line with TNSE or the NHL, they don't get interviews, scoops, and access.

So, you either write fluff and what will stand up to the sniff test of the powers that be or you end up writing stuff that is all based on rumor and supposition because you have no legitimate vetted sources.

Pick your poison. Crucifying these guys when you haven't walked in their shoes though, is really unfair. I wouldn't say 'disgusting' , but it's really easy to criticize when you don't take into account this pays these guys mortgages, feeds their children, etc. etc.

I want them to have a reasonable have reasonable level of critical thought when evaluating the management. As a journalist your main job is literally to report the truth and the facts. I understand that that can get in the way of your personal life and long term professional pursuits but that's kind of what you sign up for a journalist. No one is asking them to shred TNSE to bits in every article but even refusing to ask a question that has the fanbase ablaze is just cowardly.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I think you're reading too much into the comment. What Burke and Cheveldayoff both essentially are saying IMO is that it is not at the point where you can evaluate players solely on a spreadsheet like baseball, partially because who is collecting the stats is a much larger variable (granted there's some of that in baseball with error vs hit and stuff like that, but not as much). They need to use their own "eyeballs" as an evaluative tool as well, potentially to collect their own stats in video work, which I assume every team is doing.

We're crossing streams a bit here I think: my commentary regarding the "eyes required" is the constant harping from TNSE and other media, not Burke and Chevy - those guys are paid to evaluate from multiple angles, so I agree with you. What I don't agree with is the dismissive manner that the media uses when discussing stats.

 

[garret9]

All of this stuff really annoys me, and it's another component of the lack of realistic reporting of sports (especially in Winnipeg). Outside of the whole corporate dynamic is that a lot of these guys still don't understand stats and how to interpret them or their importance. Kind of like the pre- Moneyball era.

I think this issue is independent of the other one I was discussing, which was more about interviewing, fluff questions and articles. I have had more than one Twitter battle with Toth over Pavelec and stats and eyeballs

Kay... high time you tell me which one is you on twitter haha

 

[Jet]

Kay... high time you tell me which one is you on twitter haha

LMAO you still don't know?

I would have thought you would figured it out by now, you know with advanced stats or something

 

[Grind]

LMAO you still don't know?

I would have thought you would figured it out by now, you know with advanced stats or something

i'm intrigued now too....come on out jet..

 

[pucka lucka]

i'm intrigued now too....come on out jet..

I only know who Garret & Max are. I bet I follow many of you.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

mines easy @HoldenC23. Probably 80% of my stuff is just promoing mine and others AIH stuff though. Cant wait next week with exams done ill start compiling my draft list from my various lists which will likely go up over there first.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

LMAO you still don't know?

I would have thought you would figured it out by now, you know with advanced stats or something

literally took me 20 seconds to find out - didn't follow because you seemed to be discouraging it

 

[Jet]

literally took me 20 seconds to find out - didn't follow because you seemed to be discouraging it

lmao no no, follow away if you want. I will follow back if you tell me who you are.

Warning, so far today I have posted about:

Honey nipples
Cows
Titanfall
Hedley
2 guys crotches

So follow at your own risk. I tend to tweet with little regard for filter, hence my 13.8k count

 

[wpgsilver]

#freepeluso led me to Jet pretty quickly.
Those were simpler times.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I only know who Garret & Max are. I bet I follow many of you.

Me too. I'm @scottie019 on twitter

We should start a thread so HF Jets users can exchange twitter addresses (or maybe I just did by hi-jacking this thread?).

 

[pucka lucka]

Me too. I'm @scottie019 on twitter

We should start a thread so HF Jets users can exchange twitter addresses (or maybe I just did by hi-jacking this thread?).

ahh you are scottie019. makes sense now.

 

[garret9]

Kay... high time you tell me which one is you on twitter haha

LMAO you still don't know?

I would have thought you would figured it out by now, you know with advanced stats or something

Still don't know haha

i'm intrigued now too....come on out jet..

Heh... come on out...
Jet's already out.

I only know who Garret & Max are. I bet I follow many of you.

I'm slow in figuring out everyone.
I got quite a few but only because they tell me hahaha

 

[Blue Shakehead]

ahh you are scottie019. makes sense now.

LOL. Did you think there were two confrontational a-holes simultaneuously mocking Chevy that were unaware of each other?

 

[pucka lucka]

LOL. Did you think there were two confrontational a-holes simultaneuously mocking Chevy that were unaware of each other?

It's harder to tie together a posters history here without deliberate effort when knowing them outside of this place.

 

[powder88]

Not sure where to put this, so mods should feel free to move, but I was struck by the conversation this morning on TSN about how TNSE puts a premium on character. We have all taken this as gospel, but I am beginning to have my doubts that this is really how the Jets operate.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the Jets and their management are looking for a bunch of thugs and miscreants, but I can't think of a time when they have stood on principal either, especially one that works to the team's detriment.

-There was no sanction against Pavelec following his drunk driving conviction and withholding it during contract negotiations. The team didn't impose a two game suspension on him, which would have said that character matters.

-It was the Jets players, not management, that finally said that Evander Kane couldn't be a part of the team anymore. Where was TSNE valuing character there?

-Scott Brown's surprisingly tone deaf comments on Bobby Hull also don't strike me as those representative of an organization that puts character at the top of the priority list.

Again, I am not saying that Chevy or Chipper are bad people, just that they are like all other sport management types; they take the whole player into consideration and will put up with character flaws, even significant ones, if there is an advantage to be gained on the ice. I am just having a harder and harder time believing in the narrative that TSNE are paragons of virtue.

Has there been a time that I am forgetting where they took a stance that may have harmed them on the ice, but showed that they are willing to stand up for this principal?

 

[sipowicz]

What struck me as odd is that both Trouba and Buff gave long interviews in Toronto during the World Cup exhibition schedule and had no problem doing so, TNSE kept telling everyone that these guys don't like th media, more like players in Winnipeg are muzzled by TNSE!

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I am just having a harder and harder time believing in the narrative that TSNE are paragons of virtue.

I guess it all depends on how you interpret TNSE's use of the word "character".

My interpretation would be that it relates primarily to "hockey character" - i.e. being a good team mate, having a strong work ethic, and being a positive presence in the locker room.

My interpretation is less that they intend to police their players' personal lives (like punishing Pavs for his DUI). Would they prefer that sort of stuff not to happen? Of course. But I don't think they've appointed themselves the morality police, or "paragons of virtue", as you suggest.

To me, of the three examples you gave (Kane, Pavs, Hull), only Kane's actions affected the harmony of the Jets 2.0 team, and thus the quality of the product TNSE put on the ice. And Kane was in fact traded once the issue blew up, in an exceedingly rare Chevy players for players trade.

You can argue that they waited too long on Kane. Or, perhaps, they pulled the trigger exactly when the character issues finally bubbled over. Perhaps after a bit of wrangling to get the best deal possible.

 

[Lorenzo1000]

Or perhaps they don't like the media in winnipeg? If you had to talk to Gary Lawless on a regular basis....

 

[Guardian17]

When I lived in Calgary, the media covered the Flames in the same manner.

If you think TSN 1290 is bad, listen to the FAN 960.

 

[surixon]

Not sure where to put this, so mods should feel free to move, but I was struck by the conversation this morning on TSN about how TNSE puts a premium on character. We have all taken this as gospel, but I am beginning to have my doubts that this is really how the Jets operate.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the Jets and their management are looking for a bunch of thugs and miscreants, but I can't think of a time when they have stood on principal either, especially one that works to the team's detriment.

-There was no sanction against Pavelec following his drunk driving conviction and withholding it during contract negotiations. The team didn't impose a two game suspension on him, which would have said that character matters.

-It was the Jets players, not management, that finally said that Evander Kane couldn't be a part of the team anymore. Where was TSNE valuing character there?

-Scott Brown's surprisingly tone deaf comments on Bobby Hull also don't strike me as those representative of an organization that puts character at the top of the priority list.

Again, I am not saying that Chevy or Chipper are bad people, just that they are like all other sport management types; they take the whole player into consideration and will put up with character flaws, even significant ones, if there is an advantage to be gained on the ice. I am just having a harder and harder time believing in the narrative that TSNE are paragons of virtue.

Has there been a time that I am forgetting where they took a stance that may have harmed them on the ice, but showed that they are willing to stand up for this principal?

I don't think I have ever seen them advertise themselves as paragon's of virtue. I also agree with Puckatron with regards to the type of character they are looking for.

To be fair to TNSE they were damned if they do and damned if they don't with regards to Hull. Hull the hockey player had such a profound impact on shaping the hockey history of this city and really paved the way for us being an NHL market. I definitely understand why they wanted to celebrate his on ice contributions. I also understand the arguments against recognizing him as well. I think either way there would have been issues.

 

[Unholy goalie]

I guess it all depends on how you interpret TNSE's use of the word "character".

My interpretation would be that it relates primarily to "hockey character" - i.e. being a good team mate, having a strong work ethic, and being a positive presence in the locker room.

My interpretation is less that they intend to police their players' personal lives (like punishing Pavs for his DUI). Would they prefer that sort of stuff not to happen? Of course. But I don't think they've appointed themselves the morality police, or "paragons of virtue", as you suggest.

To me, of the three examples you gave (Kane, Pavs, Hull), only Kane's actions affected the harmony of the Jets 2.0 team, and thus the quality of the product TNSE put on the ice. And Kane was in fact traded once the issue blew up, in an exceedingly rare Chevy players for players trade.

You can argue that they waited too long on Kane. Or, perhaps, they pulled the trigger exactly when the character issues finally bubbled over. Perhaps after a bit of wrangling to get the best deal possible.

I think this is a good read.

I would only add that TNSE also values the contracts they sign, for good or bad.

 

[broinwhyteridge]

Or perhaps they don't like the media in winnipeg? If you had to talk to Gary Lawless on a regular basis....

Talking with Gary is easy.

Sit back and listen to him turn a 10 second question into a 90 second ramble, possibly ending with a question.

Sit back and watch Gary answer his question for you in a rambling manner.

Sit up and say "yes" or "no" as applicable.

 

[powder88]

Interesting discussion, guys. I have to say that I disagree that TNSE hasn't put themselves out there as being driven by character. My "paragons of virtue" line is clearly not something they have ever uttered, but it is very clear to me that, at a minimum, the conversation on TSN this morning suggested they were talking about "character" as extending beyond the ice surface, and that TNSE wants to position themselves in that way.

I agree that they were caught between a rock and a hard place with Hull. The fact of the matter is that perhaps the defining moment in Winnipeg professional hockey history was Hull and Haskins at Portage and Main. The uncomfortable fact is that Hull was a domestic abuser, and society (rightly, in my opinion) is increasingly vocal against such actions.

I do think though, that Scott Brown's comments on Hull declining to appear very much missed the mark. I like to think he would like a do-over on those.

With respect to Pavelec, that is exactly the point though, isn't it? If you stand for a principal, you have to do so even when it is inconvenient for you. You are welcome to say, "In happened in Europe and off Jets time, therefore it doesn't matter to us" but you cannot simultaneously say, "We expect our players to carry themselves in an above board fashion and will take action if they don't. I'm not aware of any public statement by the Jets to this effect, but they very much conduct themselves, and the media seems to agree, as if it were the case.

I don't want to beat them up too much on this, because they are hardly unique on this, but they certainly appear quite willing to not dissociate themselves from a convicted drunk driver, a domestic abuser and a locker room cancer, who they also believe are good hockey players (so oh-for-two on Pavelec)