Prospect Info: Winnipeg Jets Prospects 2017-18

[Mortimer Snerd]

Lemieux isn't a teenager anymore and I'm pretty sure he knows now that he should already be in the NHL and why he isn't. Vincent seems to be too passive with some of his players, but I don't think Maurice would put up with repeated dumb penalties from a third or fourth liner. (Only Buff gets carte blanche.)

If Chevy can cut a deal with Edmonton and flip Trouba or Myers++ for RNH the Jets potential third line of Lemieux-Little-Roslovic would be deadly. Jets should have the best top 9 - and possibly the best entire forward lineup - in the NHL.

I don't agree that he should already be in the NHL. This past year was the one where he showed that he probably is ready for next year. Probably. If the Jets don't have an appropriate opening then some other team should get him.

I wouldn't do Trouba for RNH. A package of assets we could more easily spare would be another story but I don't know if we could come up with the value to get him then. That would still leave us with the problem of paying him under the cap.

I'd like to see Lemieux on the 4th line before I decide he is the best 3LW we have.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

I don't agree that he should already be in the NHL. This past year was the one where he showed that he probably is ready for next year. Probably. If the Jets don't have an appropriate opening then some other team should get him.

I wouldn't do Trouba for RNH. A package of assets we could more easily spare would be another story but I don't know if we could come up with the value to get him then. That would still leave us with the problem of paying him under the cap.

I'd like to see Lemieux on the 4th line before I decide he is the best 3LW we have.

The problem with Lemieux is that none of his coaches in the past have set boundaries for him. He's been allowed to run around on the ice playing like an out of control bully. You can get away with that in Junior and intimidate many of your smaller peers, but that style usually doesn't translate well (or help the team anymore) the closer you get to the NHL. (For some strange reason Wilson has been able to get away with a chippier version this style in the NHL without getting Raffi Torres type suspensions yet.)

Vincent may have spoken to him this year, but I think the changes we're seeing are more because Lemieux, his dad or his agent realized the Jets weren't going to gift him a spot in the NHL with his previous level of play.

I think he had the physical tools to play for the Jets last year, but acted like an entitled millennial and wasn't disciplined enough for Maurice to trust him.

From what I've seen, I'll go out on a limb and say he makes the Jets next year and if he doesn't demands a trade to one of the 30 other teams that will gladly play him. I'm pretty sure that whatever organization he's with he'll be playing in the NHL for 2018-19.

Lemieux isn't just some fourth line grinder and I don't think it's reasonable to automatically put him on the fourth line just because he is starting out. Smart coaches put players where their skillsets belong and where they'll learn the fastest - even if they're just starting out. (Why putting Connor or Roslovic on the fourth line as rookies would make no sense.)

Lemieux is a punishing checker, can dig the puck out on the forecheck, hustles, backchecks well and probably has better hands than anyone currently on the Jets fourth line. Putting him with a skilled center (Little) and a speedy, shifty right winger with better finishing ability (Roslovic) complements his skillset better than anchoring him to a couple of fourth line stone hands grinders like Lowry, Copp or Armia. (Part of the problem that Petan had to deal with when he was given a brief look with the Jets.)

I've posted before what I think the Jets lineup should look like in 2018-19 if the Jets can trade either Myers or Trouba to Edmonton for RNH or Draisaitl (either team adds where appropriate). You usually have to give quality to get quality. Obviously it would be preferable to trade Myers++, but after seeing the Taylor "MVP" Hall debacle blow up in his face this year I'm not sure if even Chiarelli would be dumb enough to trade RNH for Myers++.

2018-19 Jets lineup:

1) Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
2) Laine-Draisaitl/Nugent-Hopkins-Ehlers
3) Lemieux-Little-Roslovic
4) Copp-Lowry-Tanev
(Armia, Appleton, Vesalainen)

1) Morrissey-Byfuglien
2) Kulikov-Myers/Trouba
3) Niku-Morrow
(Chiarot, Poolman, Melchiori)

1) Hellebuyck
2) Trade for Calvin Pickard
(Comrie - though right now I wouldn't trust him and wonder if he'll be able to turn it around next year like Hellebuyck did this year (until the playoffs). Weak goals on Comrie cost the Moose so many games that I actually felt bad for Vincent and the Moose players some nights.)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The problem with Lemieux is that none of his coaches in the past have set boundaries for him. He's been allowed to run around on the ice playing like an out of control bully. You can get away with that in Junior and intimidate many of your smaller peers, but that style usually doesn't translate well (or help the team anymore) the closer you get to the NHL. (For some strange reason Wilson has been able to get away with a chippier version this style in the NHL without getting Raffi Torres type suspensions yet.)

Vincent may have spoken to him this year, but I think the changes we're seeing are more because Lemieux, his dad or his agent realized the Jets weren't going to gift him a spot in the NHL with his previous level of play.

I think he had the physical tools to play for the Jets last year, but acted like an entitled millennial and wasn't disciplined enough for Maurice to trust him.

From what I've seen, I'll go out on a limb and say he makes the Jets next year and if he doesn't demands a trade to one of the 30 other teams that will gladly play him. I'm pretty sure that whatever organization he's with he'll be playing in the NHL for 2018-19.

Lemieux isn't just some fourth line grinder and I don't think it's reasonable to automatically put him on the fourth line just because he is starting out. Smart coaches put players where their skillsets belong and where they'll learn the fastest - even if they're just starting out. (Why putting Connor or Roslovic on the fourth line as rookies would make no sense.)

Lemieux is a punishing checker, can dig the puck out on the forecheck, hustles, backchecks well and probably has better hands than anyone currently on the Jets fourth line. Putting him with a skilled center (Little) and a speedy, shifty right winger with better finishing ability (Roslovic) complements his skillset better than anchoring him to a couple of fourth line stone hands grinders like Lowry, Copp or Armia. (Part of the problem that Petan had to deal with when he was given a brief look with the Jets.)

I've posted before what I think the Jets lineup should look like in 2018-19 if the Jets can trade either Myers or Trouba to Edmonton for RNH or Draisaitl (either team adds where appropriate). You usually have to give quality to get quality. Obviously it would be preferable to trade Myers++, but after seeing the Taylor "MVP" Hall debacle blow up in his face this year I'm not sure if even Chiarelli would be dumb enough to trade RNH for Myers++.

2018-19 Jets lineup:

1) Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
2) Laine-Draisaitl/Nugent-Hopkins-Ehlers
3) Lemieux-Little-Roslovic
4) Copp-Lowry-Tanev
(Armia, Appleton, Vesalainen)

1) Morrissey-Byfuglien
2) Kulikov-Myers/Trouba
3) Niku-Morrow
(Chiarot, Poolman, Melchiori)

1) Hellebuyck
2) Trade for Calvin Pickard
(Comrie - though right now I wouldn't trust him and wonder if he'll be able to turn it around next year like Hellebuyck did this year (until the playoffs). Weak goals on Comrie cost the Moose so many games that I actually felt bad for Vincent and the Moose players some nights.)

I just plain disagree.

He has been suspended multiple times going back to junior. That isn't just being allowed to get away with it. I have no idea what makes you think his coaches haven't set boundaries.

As for his talent - it has taken till his 2nd full season in the AHL to get up to .84 ppg. Lots of players who outperform that never make it in the NHL. He is not a slam dunk. Maybe he had the tools to play NHL last year but he wasn't better than anyone who was playing ahead of him.

He will have to beat out a pretty good player to make the Jets next year unless a trade opens a spot for him.

Trouba is not getting traded if he signs long term. He isn't getting traded to any team that will be unable to sign him long term so Edm is highly unlikely. If he does get traded we need to get RHD in return.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Yes. A successful agitator will also upset the opposition emotionally. The idea is to put them off their game.

I have some trouble with the whole concept. I like the result when my team does it successfully but I don't believe that winning justifies any and every behaviour. It is a fine line between being a pest and being a dirty player who I would have zero respect for.

Brad Marchand is an example of a person I would not like my children to emulate. I can not cheer for him or support him in any way. I can not support any team that employs him or others like him. Winning does not justify his behaviour. There are others in that category but he is the poster boy.

The difficulty comes in defining exactly where that fine line is without being hypocritical. Hockey is a physical contest and I don't expect perfect angels. I hope that Lemieux can stay on the right side of that line. He has crossed it a few times in the past. I hope he has learned from those incidents. Time will tell.

Agitators have always been a part of hockey and can be very effective. If you're old enough to remember Kenny Linseman and Ulf Samuelsson you'll know that the current agitators in the NHL look like comparative angels.

Brad Marchand is not an agitator, he's a caricature of an agitator that's actually embarrassing to watch. Kesler and Perry (dirty) on the Ducks and Tkachuk on the Flames are much more effective agitators than Marchand (who most players just ignore).

 

[The Ugly Truth]

I just plain disagree.

He has been suspended multiple times going back to junior. That isn't just being allowed to get away with it. I have no idea what makes you think his coaches haven't set boundaries.

As for his talent - it has taken till his 2nd full season in the AHL to get up to .84 ppg. Lots of players who outperform that never make it in the NHL. He is not a slam dunk. Maybe he had the tools to play NHL last year but he wasn't better than anyone who was playing ahead of him.

He will have to beat out a pretty good player to make the Jets next year unless a trade opens a spot for him.

Trouba is not getting traded if he signs long term. He isn't getting traded to any team that will be unable to sign him long term so Edm is highly unlikely. If he does get traded we need to get RHD in return.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree. For players with his skillset I find the good old fashioned eye test is much more useful a predictor of future NHL success.

Does his PPG stat tell you how many opposing players practically crawled back to their benches in pain after getting checked by him? Or how many players purposely held up on plays just to avoid him? Or how many times he's skated back like a demon - despite being at the end of his shift - to break up an odd man rush?

I don't think there's "fancy stats" for any of those things. If you watch the Moose for even one period it quickly becomes obvious who's going to be ready for the next level and who won't. I'm sure scouts for other teams are watching to see what happens with him in training camp given the logjam of players currently ahead of him on the Jets.

If I was a Jets player I wouldn't want to play against him if he ends up getting traded to another team. He's going to come back to Winnipeg with a massive chip on his shoulder because of how his career has gone so far. Definitely someone Jets would need to trade far away from their division.

Trouba seemed to regress a bit this year but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still injured. If Trouba's camp are just pretending to be willing to sign in Winnipeg and actually only want to sign with an American team then San Jose might be a good fit with an extended Couture+ coming back. That's assuming Tavares doesn't end up signing in San Jose.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

I just plain disagree.

He has been suspended multiple times going back to junior. That isn't just being allowed to get away with it. I have no idea what makes you think his coaches haven't set boundaries.

Are you saying that a good coach can't control their players' behaviour consistently?
Do you really believe that?

 

[surixon]

Are you saying that a good coach can't control their players' behaviour consistently?
Do you really believe that?

There are many examples of players who have pushed back against coaches or wouldn't allow themselves to be coached only to flame out of the league. At the end of the day if the player isn't willing to listen or buy in not much the coach can do.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree. For players with his skillset I find the good old fashioned eye test is much more useful a predictor of future NHL success.

Does his PPG stat tell you how many opposing players practically crawled back to their benches in pain after getting checked by him? Or how many players purposely held up on plays just to avoid him? Or how many times he's skated back like a demon - despite being at the end of his shift - to break up an odd man rush?

I don't think there's "fancy stats" for any of those things. If you watch the Moose for even one period it quickly becomes obvious who's going to be ready for the next level and who won't. I'm sure scouts for other teams are watching to see what happens with him in training camp given the logjam of players currently ahead of him on the Jets.

If I was a Jets player I wouldn't want to play against him if he ends up getting traded to another team. He's going to come back to Winnipeg with a massive chip on his shoulder because of how his career has gone so far. Definitely someone Jets would need to trade far away from their division.

Trouba seemed to regress a bit this year but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still injured. If Trouba's camp are just pretending to be willing to sign in Winnipeg and actually only want to sign with an American team then San Jose might be a good fit with an extended Couture+ coming back. That's assuming Tavares doesn't end up signing in San Jose.

Did I quote some fancy stat? I don't think so.

Even expert eye-tests are unreliable at best. Is yours an expert eye-test?

Did I anywhere suggest that he was not a likely prospect? Think I said more than once that he probably belongs in the NHL next year. That doesn't mean he should have been there last year. He has nothing to complain about with the way he has been handled. Nothing.

There is still uncertainty about Trouba's intentions but it is looking and sounding pretty optimistic right now.

But if he is traded our biggest need immediately becomes RHD. That's what we need in return. We have a couple of years to develop the replacement, if we are lucky. But we need to get that replacement into the system.

Looking at ages of their other C's I can't see SJS trading Couture.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

There are many examples of players who have pushed back against coaches or wouldn't allow themselves to be coached only to flame out of the league. At the end of the day if the player isn't willing to listen or buy in not much the coach can do.

If Vincent can't control Lemieux's behaviour that means there's either something wrong with Vincent and he needs to learn how to control his players or else there's something seriously wrong with Lemieux and he should no longer be with the Jets organization.

 

[surixon]

If Vincent can't control Lemieux's behaviour that means there's either something wrong with Vincent and he needs to learn how to control his players or else there's something seriously wrong with Lemieux and he should no longer be with the Jets organization.

I don't believe I said Lemieux fit into that category. I just was countering your blanket statement that coaches should be able to make everyone fall in line.

 

[KingBogo]

If Vincent can't control Lemieux's behaviour that means there's either something wrong with Vincent and he needs to learn how to control his players or else there's something seriously wrong with Lemieux and he should no longer be with the Jets organization.

The AHL is a developmental league. If a player can't fall in line that is on him and he will soon be out of hockey. At a developmental level talent may give you a little more rope, but ultimately it is on the player to find the line they can't cross.

 

[CorgisPer60]

The AHL is a developmental league. If a player can't fall in line that is on him and he will soon be out of hockey. At a developmental level talent may give you a little more rope, but ultimately it is on the player to find the line they can't cross.

This exactly. Prospects go there to develop, but the prospects do the heavy lifting in terms of getting better and more mature. A coach can only do so much; the player has to fill in the rest. Lemieux is in control of his destiny here, and he needs to prove that he can be a pest without crossing the line.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

The Jets are going to need a PB forward with Hendricks moving on.

I kind of think Lipon might perform that role decently well for cheap.

With no UFA players expected to be resigned, Roslovic making the team out of camp and Petan no longer waiver eligible the roster as I see it is 25 players. Lipon makes 26. Who does he supplant? Dano, Petan, Tanev, Copp? I've still got Lemieux in the AHL next season. The only thing Lipon offers over them is a right shot

 

[DJBiffWPG]

The problem with Lemieux is that none of his coaches in the past have set boundaries for him. He's been allowed to run around on the ice playing like an out of control bully. You can get away with that in Junior and intimidate many of your smaller peers, but that style usually doesn't translate well (or help the team anymore) the closer you get to the NHL. (For some strange reason Wilson has been able to get away with a chippier version this style in the NHL without getting Raffi Torres type suspensions yet.)

Vincent may have spoken to him this year, but I think the changes we're seeing are more because Lemieux, his dad or his agent realized the Jets weren't going to gift him a spot in the NHL with his previous level of play.

I think he had the physical tools to play for the Jets last year, but acted like an entitled millennial and wasn't disciplined enough for Maurice to trust him.

From what I've seen, I'll go out on a limb and say he makes the Jets next year and if he doesn't demands a trade to one of the 30 other teams that will gladly play him. I'm pretty sure that whatever organization he's with he'll be playing in the NHL for 2018-19.

Lemieux isn't just some fourth line grinder and I don't think it's reasonable to automatically put him on the fourth line just because he is starting out. Smart coaches put players where their skillsets belong and where they'll learn the fastest - even if they're just starting out. (Why putting Connor or Roslovic on the fourth line as rookies would make no sense.)

Lemieux is a punishing checker, can dig the puck out on the forecheck, hustles, backchecks well and probably has better hands than anyone currently on the Jets fourth line. Putting him with a skilled center (Little) and a speedy, shifty right winger with better finishing ability (Roslovic) complements his skillset better than anchoring him to a couple of fourth line stone hands grinders like Lowry, Copp or Armia. (Part of the problem that Petan had to deal with when he was given a brief look with the Jets.)

I've posted before what I think the Jets lineup should look like in 2018-19 if the Jets can trade either Myers or Trouba to Edmonton for RNH or Draisaitl (either team adds where appropriate). You usually have to give quality to get quality. Obviously it would be preferable to trade Myers++, but after seeing the Taylor "MVP" Hall debacle blow up in his face this year I'm not sure if even Chiarelli would be dumb enough to trade RNH for Myers++.

2018-19 Jets lineup:

1) Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
2) Laine-Draisaitl/Nugent-Hopkins-Ehlers
3) Lemieux-Little-Roslovic
4) Copp-Lowry-Tanev
(Armia, Appleton, Vesalainen)

1) Morrissey-Byfuglien
2) Kulikov-Myers/Trouba
3) Niku-Morrow
(Chiarot, Poolman, Melchiori)

1) Hellebuyck
2) Trade for Calvin Pickard
(Comrie - though right now I wouldn't trust him and wonder if he'll be able to turn it around next year like Hellebuyck did this year (until the playoffs). Weak goals on Comrie cost the Moose so many games that I actually felt bad for Vincent and the Moose players some nights.)

Lol. Lemieux will never be an NHL regular.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

This exactly. Prospects go there to develop, but the prospects do the heavy lifting in terms of getting better and more mature. A coach can only do so much; the player has to fill in the rest. Lemieux is in control of his destiny here, and he needs to prove that he can be a pest without crossing the line.

Lemieux has thus far proven to be an ineffective pest since he takes more penalties than he draws. Until he can control his PIM's he won't be in NHL, IMO.

He improved massively at the AHL level last year. He was more effective in the cycle game, showed more scoring touch. He struggled with the pace of play in the NHL though and his puck control was atrocious at best. We've seen plenty of examples of players clearly not ready one year become valuable the next (Connor for example). Maybe he can take that step in terms of playing skills as he's teased in AHL. However there is still much to be decided in his head yet. It's impossible to know if he's maturing by fans, all we have the history and it's mighty ugly for Lemieux. We can only hope he grows up but we won't know for some time yet.

 

[Whileee]

Lemieux has thus far proven to be an ineffective pest since he takes more penalties than he draws. Until he can control his PIM's he won't be in NHL, IMO.

He improved massively at the AHL level last year. He was more effective in the cycle game, showed more scoring touch. He struggled with the pace of play in the NHL though and his puck control was atrocious at best. We've seen plenty of examples of players clearly not ready one year become valuable the next (Connor for example). Maybe he can take that step in terms of playing skills as he's teased in AHL. However there is still much to be decided in his head yet. It's impossible to know if he's maturing by fans, all we have the history and it's mighty ugly for Lemieux. We can only hope he grows up but we won't know for some time yet.

There's no question that Lemieux needs to play with more discipline. There are examples of players that were pretty much out of control in the minors who have managed to contain themselves in terms of taking minor penalties in the NHL. Roussel (Dallas) was crazy in the AHL, but is close to even in penalties taken/drawn at the NHL level (average -3 over the past 3 seasons).

I think he'll get a long look with the Jets. To me, the question is whether he can replace Tanev as a fast, hard forechecker. Lemieux has better hands and hockey sense, and a much better shot. He also has a nose for the net, and the Jets don't have enough forwards that have that instinct. Tanev has dynamic speed, which is the trade-off.

 

[trebendan]

From Ken Wiebe - Winnipeg Sun:

The #NHLJets are not expected to sign Brandon product and 2016 fifth round (127th overall) pick Jordy Stallard before today’s 4 pm CT deadline. Stallard, 20, had 44 G, 91 P for the Prince Albert Raiders of #WHL this season.

 

[surixon]

From Ken Wiebe - Winnipeg Sun:

The #NHLJets are not expected to sign Brandon product and 2016 fifth round (127th overall) pick Jordy Stallard before today’s 4 pm CT deadline. Stallard, 20, had 44 G, 91 P for the Prince Albert Raiders of #WHL this season.

Too bad, they must not have liked what they saw when he was with the Moose at the end of the season. I would have signed him.

Hopefully they get Vasalinen and McKenzie inked as there will likely be a few forward spots open.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

From Ken Wiebe - Winnipeg Sun:

The #NHLJets are not expected to sign Brandon product and 2016 fifth round (127th overall) pick Jordy Stallard before today’s 4 pm CT deadline. Stallard, 20, had 44 G, 91 P for the Prince Albert Raiders of #WHL this season.

Kinda hoping they sign him to an AHL Moose contract.

 

[CorgisPer60]

There had to have been some character issues with him, because they released him from his ATO within two weeks of signing one.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Too bad, they must not have liked what they saw when he was with the Moose at the end of the season. I would have signed him.

Hopefully they get Vasalinen and McKenzie inked as there will likely be a few forward spots open.

If they wouldn't sign Gennaro last year and Stallard this year, why would they sign McKenzie?

I find it a little puzzling. Jets are always low in total contracts. None of these guys are hot prospects but they have all outperformed their draft positions by quite a bit. Should be worth a look.

 

[garret9]

Interesting that the Jets have not signed quite a few players that came out of their western area, who performed well enough to at least get an ELC.

I would be curious to see if maybe that area scout missed a bit of their due diligence...

 

[Whileee]

Interesting that the Jets have not signed quite a few players that came out of their western area, who performed well enough to at least get an ELC.

I would be curious to see if maybe that area scout missed a bit of their due diligence...

Good point.

 

[surixon]

If they wouldn't sign Gennaro last year and Stallard this year, why would they sign McKenzie?

I find it a little puzzling. Jets are always low in total contracts. None of these guys are hot prospects but they have all outperformed their draft positions by quite a bit. Should be worth a look.

Well he has a better track record and he also got into a number of Moose playoff games this pasr season. I think the org likes him better.

 

[wasup]

There had to have been some character issues with him, because they released him from his ATO within two weeks of signing one.

I would highly doubt their are character issues i knew this kid growing up and i know the family both were very high character . I was hoping they would sign him, love when local kids are playing when i go watch .