Wings interested in Tyler Myers

[The Zetterberg Era]

I've wondered this myself. Why is it that Ken Holland never seems to get it done, but always seem to be in the mix? It might be satisfying for us to just say that he's too weak or even that he sucks, but nobody around the league acts like he sucks. I don't think other teams even believe that.

But there's a real issue going between Holland's valuations and everybody else's valuations. I read it somewhere, don't know where, but an anonymous GM mentioned that he thought Ken Holland was cheap with him, never wanting to give up assets and always looking for a steal. I think that could be part of it. It's sometimes made out that there's a GM "code" (years back, Burke thought offer sheets were breaking the code), and one of the big things is that it's unacceptable to try to fleece your partner all the time. It's a small GM pool, and nobody really wants to see the other guy get destroyed and lose his job—they just want to beat their team. So that became one of their little rules.

My theory is that because Holland is never willing to give up players, other GMs take him to be breaking the code. He's trying to fleece other GMs, just like he's trying to fleece Murray by getting Myers for scraps. and so GMs around the league are hesitant to deal with Ken Holland, especially when it comes to subjective stuff like prospects.

They're probably afraid that if Holland says Nyquist, for example, could be a top notch winger... well, that's not like him. If Holland thought Nyquist could be a top notch winger, he'd keep him. So you're skeptical, and you don't want to make deals with them like the Bouwmeester deal. You don't want to move proven stuff for non-proven because you're afraid Holland is going to fleece you.

and beyond that, maybe some other stuff. GMs not wanting to be the guy the Wings' comeback is made on, and so forth. I also think other teams' scouts value some different things than ours do, and that factors in. I'm sure Nyquist and Tatar were just small skill wingers until they blew up in the NHL.

One of the reason GMs don't trade with him is back when they used to deal more often name the package he lost? I think this plays a big role. Doug Wilson hinted at it when the Stuart deal went through and Detroit was the last team he traded with.

If Holland wants to give up on a prospect or young player stay far away. Fleischmann is the best we have given up, all the others are draft picks teams made themselves. Sean Avery might be #2 here. He has a track record I would be worried about if I was another GM. You can call Holland gun shy, but I think his partners are very afraid to dance more often than not.

Will be interesting to watch because they have built it up in such a way he has to trade some of these things, if the trade that shall not be named is the tip of the iceberg in terms of reactions around here well... buckle up fellas.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

There was a lot of speculation involving Spezza/Dallas pre-july1

Yup I was seeing quite abit of rumors about Spezza to St Louis, Dallas and Anaheim If the Kesler trade fell through with the Ducks.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

There was a lot of speculation involving Spezza/Dallas pre-july1

Yeah swing and a miss by Bench, they were always heavily rumored on that one, it was will he waive to go to Dallas or Nashville. Seems Ottawa preferred the Nashville package but Spezza would not go.

 

[Bench]

Yeah swing and a miss by Bench, they were always heavily rumored on that one, it was will he waive to go to Dallas or Nashville. Seems Ottawa preferred the Nashville package but Spezza would not go.

I always took that as just people guessing it was a good fit. I wasn't aware there was anything definitive from the Nill camp, but I didn't follow it super close. Could be wrong.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I always took that as just people guessing it was a good fit. I wasn't aware there was anything definitive from the Nill camp, but I didn't follow it super close. Could be wrong.

Lebrun and the like had Dallas as strongly interested, not just fit, like we know they are interested and talking kind of comments.

 

[Frk It]

Lebrun and the like had Dallas as strongly interested, not just fit, like we know they are interested and talking kind of comments.

Could have sworn that STL was touted as the most likely landing spot for Spezza prior to July 1st.

But could be wrong, I mean what center wasn't STL linked to? lol

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Definitely chose the wrong summer for a center I guess. Had we waited, we could have went after Spezza or Statsny instead of Weiss or possibly Legwand. But who saw that coming?

 

[Bench]

Could have sworn that STL was touted as the most likely landing spot for Spezza prior to July 1st.

But could be wrong, I mean what center wasn't STL linked to? lol

That's what I thought.

Oh well, not that it matters. This is just another classic Bench post where I didn't fact check and used my ADD riddled mind.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Could have sworn that STL was touted as the most likely landing spot for Spezza prior to July 1st.

But could be wrong, I mean what center wasn't STL linked to? lol

Well STL made a ton of sense, when they slowed down immediately upon being able to talk to players you had a feeling Stastny was a done deal. I actually really think Stastny should have gone to Nashville, but the pull of his hometown and now off-season and regular season home was too much.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That's what I thought.

Oh well, not that it matters. This is just another classic Bench post where I didn't fact check and used my ADD riddled mind.

Better done in classic Bench picture form.

Dallas was believed in it from the start, though I do think Nill wound up giving less than I thought he would. Murray really got a bum deal, the center market shook out in a way that seriously harmed his return in my opinion. I don't hate it, but I thought Spezza would go for more and to me that has been a writing on the wall situation for a couple seasons, never believed he was a lifelong Sens player.

 

[Bench]

Simpsons have a joke for every moment. That's why I love them so.

I do know Nill said he's looking to improve their defense. So we've got Holland and Nill both saying the same thing at the same time.

 

[bababooeyII]

One of the reason GMs don't trade with him is back when they used to deal more often name the package he lost? I think this plays a big role. Doug Wilson hinted at it when the Stuart deal went through and Detroit was the last team he traded with.

If Holland wants to give up on a prospect or young player stay far away. Fleischmann is the best we have given up, all the others are draft picks teams made themselves. Sean Avery might be #2 here. He has a track record I would be worried about if I was another GM. You can call Holland gun shy, but I think his partners are very afraid to dance more often than not.

Will be interesting to watch because they have built it up in such a way he has to trade some of these things, if the trade that shall not be named is the tip of the iceberg in terms of reactions around here well... buckle up fellas.

I think you're on to something here. I think Ken Holland deals with other GMs like he deals with ufa's, he low balls them at first and if they WANT to deal with the Red Wings - great, if not- move along. The result are GM's, like ufa's, get sick of dealing with him.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think you're on to something here. I think Ken Holland deals with other GMs like he deals with ufa's, he low balls them at first and if they WANT to deal with the Red Wings - great, if not- move along. The result are GM's, like ufa's, get sick of dealing with him.

I think it is more they seem to go belly up when they leave the Wings, our draft and development is something they don't really have. Now some of this should dissipate with us drafting more classic players in terms of build and skill sets lately.

In an odd way Jarnkrok could help us here. He really actually went into a more ideal setup than he was going to have with us. If he produces, it is well our youth pushed him out and look at our guys. Honestly we could kind of use that and I am rooting for it even if the stat updates will drive me crazy, we do kind of need one of these kids to make a GM look good for getting into a deal with us.

Also we have two of the better coaches at each level right now, a well respected GM, when we want to shop the same players over and over it isn't really a positive check mark. Just my opinion, but we trail the league in deals made by such a huge margin and a part of it seems other GMs are wary of our GM still.

 

[Bench]

Honestly we could kind of use that and I am rooting for it even if the stat updates will drive me crazy, we do kind of need one of these kids to make a GM look good for getting into a deal with us.

That's the definition of a double edged blade if I ever saw it.

But you're absolutely right.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That's the definition of a double edged blade if I ever saw it.

But you're absolutely right.

Seriously though Holland hasn't made a lot of hockey trades, he generally makes stone cold who done it to us trades. He used to straight **** people.

Some blamed it on the cap, but honestly at the time of some of those trades the other fan-bases went well at least we got these good young Red Wings guys and picks. Like the Chelios trade shouldn't have been that lopsided. Primeau went on to produce the eventual Stanley Cup Winning captain in another trade for the Canes. But when you bring them up it is like we royally screwed people. I know they haven't happened much and I know that will be peoples response, but the guy pretty much flat out cleaned people out for a decade and people remember that, they push for the things he doesn't want.

Imagine you're Buffalo, yeah Kozlov is a good player, but shouldn't you have stuck to your guns on Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Fischer being untouchable? How do you feel about that and what do your peers think? Since there isn't much turnover in the NHL community it is still probably around. I mean our last two major deals were basically one facilitated backdoor through Yzerman and another with a guy that has been a GM third longest behind Lou and Holland and was in the same division to never trade with him. I think it speaks volumes that these are the lengths we have to go to.

Plus as others have stated, do you really want to be the guy that helped him keep this thing going for 40 years? Probably a huge no.

 

[Bps21*]

Buffalo held no cards in the kozlov trade. They had a player they had no choice but to move and he had control over where that was too.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think there's also the idea that if you lose a trade to somebody else, they still might make enough mistakes that it doesn't kill you. If you lose a trade to Detroit, they're going to make you pay for it.

So it's kind of a game of keepaway. It's just safer to throw your assets at the Buffalos and Floridas of the world, especially if you're a good team right now or expect to be good soon. You don't want Detroit getting the band back together and eliminating you somewhere along the line. Better to keep them in mediocrity and take less value to send a guy somewhere else.

If Buffalo loses the Myers trade, it burns them in a ton of ways. He's in division, he's in conference, and he's a young guy with upside potentially going to a team where he fills a big gap. And Detroit is an up-and-coming organization, too. So the last thing Murray wants to do is beef up a major competitor for a few years down the line and face a potential top pairing Myers. But if he decides to move Myers, you better believe the price will be lower than we thought, and I bet we'll lambaste Holland for not jumping on the deal.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Imagine you're Buffalo, yeah Kozlov is a good player, but shouldn't you have stuck to your guns on Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Fischer being untouchable?

Is that true? I was too young to remember anything about the Hasek deal. I always thought that the Sabres wanted some NHL talent in return which is why Kozlov was in the trade. Also at the time wouldn't Kzlov have held more value than Datsyuk or Zetterberg?

 

[Sadekuuro]

Unfortunately for Lindros, nobody did Patrick Sharp's dirty work on Lidstrom before they met in the playoffs

Ugh, we still owe that guy such a beating for that. Really disappointed it didn't happen when Nick was still playing.

 

[Chex LeMeneux]

Is that true? I was too young to remember anything about the Hasek deal. I always thought that the Sabres wanted some NHL talent in return which is why Kozlov was in the trade. Also at the time wouldn't Kzlov have held more value than Datsyuk or Zetterberg?

IIRC Hasek basically handcuffed Buffalo. He essentially told them Detroit was the only team he was willing to be traded to and that the return couldn't be anything that drastically impacts our odds at winning Good for us I guess.

 

[Claypool]

IIRC Hasek basically handcuffed Buffalo. He essentially told them Detroit was the only team he was willing to be traded to and that the return couldn't be anything that drastically impacts our odds at winning Good for us I guess.

I believe the only two teams he wanted to be traded to was St. Louis and Detroit. If I remember correctly, Philly convinced Roenick to sign with the Flyers and not Detroit because of the bad goaltending situation. Of course weeks later the Red wings acquire Hasek.

 

[Crymson]

Holland refused to offer Stralman five years in free agency. He's not going to trade away a boatload of assets to get Tyler Myers for five years.

Ugh, we still owe that guy such a beating for that. Really disappointed it didn't happen when Nick was still playing.

Given that it was totally accidental and that Sharp called Lidstrom afterward to apologize, no, he really isn't owed a beating at all.

IIRC Hasek basically handcuffed Buffalo. He essentially told them Detroit was the only team he was willing to be traded to and that the return couldn't be anything that drastically impacts our odds at winning Good for us I guess.

Hasek said he wanted to be traded to a contender, and he did not set any such restriction on the return. Holland robbed Regier blind, yes, and this happened largely because Regier had no leverage, and in the remaining part because Regier was incompetent.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Hasek said he wanted to be traded to a contender, and he did not set any such restriction on the return. Holland robbed Regier blind, yes, and this happened largely because Regier had no leverage, and in the remaining part because Regier was incompetent.

Actually what he said was right. I did some googling after and I came up with some pretty interesting quotes from Hasek.

Not only did that come as a shocker to the Buffalo sports media, but Hasek's revelation that he called Sabres GM an hour before the midnight deadline on Saturday saying that he would reject a trade if they demanded too much of the Wings. He told Regier bluntly to lower his demands for more talented Wings in exchange for him, or he would nix the deal completely.

Hasek described how he would not jepordize the Wings chances of winning the Stanley Cup next year by allowing Regier and the Sabres getting some high quality players from Detroit.

"I told him (Regier), "No, no, no - he was asking for too much,' and I said, "I won't go to Detroit if you ask for too many players,'" insisted Hasek. "I told him, "I need every good player on this team.'"

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/Sabresword/HASEKFAREWELL.html

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Just saw this...

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/rumor-roundup-better-fit-for-red-wings-green-myers-or-petry/

Man, if Glendening gets us Petry, I'd be all over that.

 

[Bob Probert Owns You]

Just saw this...

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/rumor-roundup-better-fit-for-red-wings-green-myers-or-petry/

Man, if Glendening gets us Petry, I'd be all over that.

There is no way in hell that Edmonton makes that deal.

Zilch. Nada. Nuh-uh.