Windsor Spitfires 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 8)

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Teflon

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Ive been asked numerous times as to why i think BB is at fault. Ive explained in detail to those asking and having different opinions. Not one has replied with a counter argument….guess that means ive made everyone believers lol.
 

hockeylegend11

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Ive been asked numerous times as to why i think BB is at fault. Ive explained in detail to those asking and having different opinions. Not one has replied with a counter argument….guess that means ive made everyone believers lol.
I have made counter arguments ie drafting especially 06 players,trades ie Costanzo for a 4th,Dionicio trade with Niagara ,the fact you can't ignore 2-1st finishes,a conference championship, except for a 2 week period the best years this team has seen a bit, Bowler gets fired in their right minds applies,might add attendance went up close to 1000 more per game this season amongst the top 2 improvements in the league,ownership cant be too displeased with that quite frankly.
A question does Savard stay or go,be it on his own or decided for him.
 
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Teflon

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Attendance is certainly due to covid restrictions being lifted. I wont ignore what hes done but the gravity of what hes done this year outweighs the pros imho. Hes not only completely misjudged his players but hes made it very hard going forward due to moved picks. No i dont want to see players moved just to recoup picks but thats likely what will happen. In fact that compounds the problem depending on who gets moved. It wasnt a 2 week period it was in fact the waste of an entire season and maybe more.
Savard? Id move both assistants and the GM first frankly. He can coach, but he can only coach the players hes given. You cant make small soft players into big physical players.
 

rve24

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I have made counter arguments ie drafting especially 06 players,trades ie Costanzo for a 4th,Dionicio trade with Niagara ,the fact you can't ignore 2-1st finishes,a conference championship, except for a 2 week period the best years this team has seen a bit, Bowler gets fired in their right minds applies,might add attendance went up close to 1000 more per game this season amongst the top 2 improvements in the league,ownership cant be too displeased with that quite frankly.
A question does Savard stay or go,be it on his own or decided for him.

It has been a long time since any PO success, you are correct. Still only 1 year in 10 plus they won a singke series. I'm surprised you mentioned that it has been a while and it's good to admit it's been a while. I'm impressed you did after all the defending for a decade. Good on you honestly.
I'd hold off for a year or 2 on the 06 players draft. So much happens. Some players develop in leaps n bounds, some a more linear trajectory, and some have very good rookie years only to stagnate. Sometimes rookies look great due to the vets around them and the Spits had a group of vets who played very well and they were insulated. But I really like one of the regulars game.
Time will tell how it ranks vs their peers in the O.
But I do agree the 3 that played regularly looked good. The others you throw in are hopes at this time til they play.
How many drafts has BB had just for reference and painting a whole picture of his work.
I was at a U15 HC event in Windsor his first year and saw his approach at that time to dealing with the audience. Thought it eas a great opportunity. Ill leave it at that. Many Spits staff at that time were also involved in the weekend event. You hear stuff in locker rooms.

Again I think he struck gold with with trades last year, not so much this year considering cost n return. The 1 draft you mention is wait n see but might be great and might not.....

My concern would not be that he went all in and the team busted in the POs more than any team in that position previously, but rather he totally flipped on his publicly stated philosophy messaged to fans from the year before. Seemed like a panic move from the outside. Maybe it was ownership directive, maybe he misjudged team needs, maybe LK got in his head and he went after and outbid them...I honestly don't have a clue so not judging the why's. Just the result as u have so often done in reverse. Difference is I am consistent with criteria, yours changes to pump tires. All good thou.
To flip it quick the team will need to take a step back. I'll measure him at that point. But I wouldn't fire him cause who knows why he changed his symtated philosophy. ( one you slammed London for)
It's a tough job, and no one is perfect. I love the aggressiveness but the decisions made proved non effective this year.
 
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hockeylegend11

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It has been a long time since any PO success, you are correct. Still only 1 year in 10 plus they won a singke series. I'm surprised you mentioned that it has been a while and it's good to admit it's been a while. I'm impressed you did after all the defending for a decade. Good on you honestly.
I'd hold off for a year or 2 on the 06 players draft. So much happens. Some players develop in leaps n bounds, some a more linear trajectory, and some have very good rookie years only to stagnate. Sometimes rookies look great due to the vets around them and the Spits had a group of vets who played very well and they were insulated. But I really like one of the regulars game.
Time will tell how it ranks vs their peers in the O.
But I do agree the 3 that played regularly looked good. The others you throw in are hopes at this time til they play.
How many drafts has BB had just for reference and painting a whole picture of his work.
I was at a U15 HC event in Windsor his first year and saw his approach at that time to dealing with the audience. Thought it eas a great opportunity. Ill leave it at that. Many Spits staff at that time were also involved in the weekend event. You hear stuff in locker rooms.

Again I think he struck gold with with trades last year, not so much this year considering cost n return. The 1 draft you mention is wait n see but might be great and might not.....

My concern would not be that he went all in and the team busted in the POs more than any team in that position previously, but rather he totally flipped on his publicly stated philosophy messaged to fans from the year before. Seemed like a panic move from the outside. Maybe it was ownership directive, maybe he misjudged team needs, maybe LK got in his head and he went after and outbid them...I honestly don't have a clue so not judging the why's. Just the result as u have so often done in reverse. Difference is I am consistent with criteria, yours changes to pump tires. All good thou.
To flip it quick the team will need to take a step back. I'll measure him at that point. But I wouldn't fire him cause who knows why he changed his symtated philosophy. ( one you slammed London for)
It's a tough job, and no one is perfect. I love the aggressiveness but the decisions made proved non effective this year.
To answer your question the past draft 2022 was his 3rd draft.
The year before in 2019 Rychel drafted Wyatt Johnston in the 1st,Pasquale Zito in the 2nd and James Jodoin in the 4th,and he got flack for picking Johnston and we have seen how that turned out lol.
As for your comments on the trades Bowler made this season,and there were several,but Costanzo for a 4th,Colton Smith for a 4th and yes I have criticized him at times but cant discount 22G,47 points and the last few games of the schedule plus playoffs he played with an injury that affected his shooting, and the trade with Niagara to get Dionicio was a real good trade too.
My attitude about going all in is you have to push when you think the window is the most open then it's going to get.
It's not always going to work out,but almost never works out sitting idle with a good roster.
Hindsight always 20/20, perhaps it would have been better to a get a 19 year old goalie,let Onuska go and use an OA spot on defense instead of Harrison or Wright as Brock Otten mentioned in his comments.
The fact the team made probably more then a million dollars more then they would have had they had the season and acquired stars they did.
If I am ownership Bowler isn't going anywhere.
 
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hockeylegend11

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Awesome experience for him . Congratulations JC
Agreed,congrats JC
Great trade got him for a 4th round pick just before the season started, finished with 3.03 goals against average, 5th in the league, youngest goalie(17) in the top 5,also his .901 save percentage was 5th overall in the league as well.
Whoever made that trade,there should be calls to fire him ha ha.
 

rve24

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To answer your question the past draft 2022 was his 3rd draft.
The year before in 2019 Rychel drafted Wyatt Johnston in the 1st,Pasquale Zito in the 2nd and James Jodoin in the 4th,and he got flack for picking Johnston and we have seen how that turned out lol.
As for your comments on the trades Bowler made this season,and there were several,but Costanzo for a 4th,Colton Smith for a 4th and yes I have criticized him at times but cant discount 22G,47 points and the last few games of the schedule plus playoffs he played with an injury that affected his shooting, and the trade with Niagara to get Dionicio was a real good trade too.
My attitude about going all in is you have to push when you think the window is the most open then it's going to get.
It's not always going to work out,but almost never works out sitting idle with a good roster.
Hindsight always 20/20, perhaps it would have been better to a get a 19 year old goalie,let Onuska go and use an OA spot on defense instead of Harrison or Wright as Brock Otten mentioned in his comments.
The fact the team made probably more then a million dollars more then they would have had they had the season and acquired stars they did.
If I am ownership Bowler isn't going anywhere.
Not sure what drafting Zito or Johnston had to do with anything or why the lol. But if ya feel the need to add it to try n support whatever point you are trying to make by all means go for it.
No thoughts on BBs other 2 drafts? I think he did ok personally but again ya can't judge the 06s yet vs peers until it plays out. Hope is great thou.
If ya got any real inside info on Smith deal you know why the price was what it was and in part ya can thank MH ;). And Onuska for last years run also. MH did right by both kids.
And nothing about the flip flop from BB in philosophy he preached to fans the previous year. One you supported at the time and then supported the 180. I just get dizzy with your reasoning. But it is fun to follow lol.
Yes hindsight is 20/20 and has never stopped your posts n thoughts ;) He shoulda bought big last year not this year. Yes hindsight.

I can say BB struck gold in trades last year. Can you say MH trades this year outdid BBs ;) Especially using your cost analysis above. Cmon ya won't be physically harmed by admitting it. I don't expect ya to admit it, it's all good. Dont take it personal.
 
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hockeylegend11

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Not sure what drafting Zito or Johnston had to do with anything or why the lol. But if ya feel the need to add it to try n support whatever point you are trying to make by all means go for it.
No thoughts on BBs other 2 drafts? I think he did ok personally but again ya can't judge the 06s yet vs peers until it plays out. Hope is great thou.
If ya got any real inside info on Smith deal you know why the price was what it was and in part ya can thank MH ;). And Onuska for last years run also. MH did right by both kids.
And nothing about the flip flop from BB in philosophy he preached to fans the previous year. One you supported at the time and then supported the 180. I just get dizzy with your reasoning. But it is fun to follow lol.
Yes hindsight is 20/20 and has never stopped your posts n thoughts ;) He shoulda bought big last year not this year. Yes hindsight.

I can say BB struck gold in trades last year. Can you say MH trades this year outdid BBs ;) Especially using your cost analysis above. Cmon ya won't be physically harmed by admitting it. I don't expect ya to admit it, it's all good. Dont take it personal.
I will answer your question re Hunter and Bowler in 3 ways,
For the regular season I would say Bowler outdid Hunter as the Spits did take 1st place over London
Now for the playoffs yes Hunter gets the win however should London wind up losing to Kitchener in this series,in other words 2 vs 8 and 2 losing again like last year when London was 2 and Kitchener was 7,then my mind changes and calls it a tie.
And 3rdly the Spits trades also impacts the future and for those I give it to Windsor as Dionicio, Costanzo, Smith and Castle will return next year,while London returns Humphreys and Leonard both who contributed nicely thus far,I see Humphreys as being one of their OAs while Leonard being the 5th dman behind,Bonk,Edward, George and Dickinson.
Regarding the trades yes Onuska asked to be traded last year so Windsor did acquire him for a fair price not meaning high,and Smith who wanted out after last year would only go to Windsor, though I heard his dad wanted him to go Oshawa figuring he would not get the ice time but his son held firm and traded him for 4th from Windsor, let's just say Smith's agent and I forgot who it is but is influential was pissed at London for their treatment so Mark pretty much gave him away to his credit.
Safe to say both Smith and Onuska did not like Dale Hunter from what I hear,and their feelings towards Mark was alot better.
 

rve24

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Dickinson is by far the player who will contribute most in the O from all players traded for. Book it n call me out of wrong lol.
I praidmsed the Cuylee deal when it happened. Very similar.
Keep reaching BK.
I will answer your question re Hunter and Bowler in 3 ways,
For the regular season I would say Bowler outdid Hunter as the Spits did take 1st place over London
Now for the playoffs yes Hunter gets the win however should London wind up losing to Kitchener in this series,in other words 2 vs 8 and 2 losing again like last year when London was 2 and Kitchener was 7,then my mind changes and calls it a tie.
And 3rdly the Spits trades also impacts the future and for those I give it to Windsor as Dionicio, Costanzo, Smith and Castle will return next year,while London returns Humphreys and Leonard both who contributed nicely thus far,I see Humphreys as being one of their OAs while Leonard being the 5th dman behind,Bonk,Edward, George and Dickinson.
Regarding the trades yes Onuska asked to be traded last year so Windsor did acquire him for a fair price not meaning high,and Smith who wanted out after last year would only go to Windsor, though I heard his dad wanted him to go Oshawa figuring he would not get the ice time but his son held firm and traded him for 4th from Windsor, let's just say Smith's agent and I forgot who it is but is influential was pissed at London for their treatment so Mark pretty much gave him away to his credit.
Safe to say both Smith and Onuska did not like Dale Hunter from what I hear,and their feelings towards Mark was alot better.

So Mark did right for kids inspite of their thoughts of the org. or their agents you don't remember thoughts.....hmmm Seems like your admitting they did them a solid instead of what they could have done lol. I'll pass the praise on.
Dickinson is easily the acquisition that will have by far the biggest imprint on a franchise of all the trades this year. Not even close n book it. If I'm wrong come a calling. ( I also praised the Cuylle deal for Windsor which was similar ;)

I can also say I heard some players don't like Savard. Not sure why you had to go there but ok, get your dig in instead of a convo lol. And you actually said Zito asked to leave why lol left?????
Never change, too easy.

So based on your 1st place defense that Windsor n BB outdid London you must also believe from 2012 the last decade that Windsor fell short of London every single year in the POs but 1 and every single year in the reg season but 2. So LK outsid WS in 17 of 20 Ops. Thanks for bringing that up as your criteria. Not bad thou lol
 

hockeylegend11

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Dickinson is by far the player who will contribute most in the O from all players traded for. Book it n call me out of wrong lol.
I praidmsed the Cuylee deal when it happened. Very similar.
Keep reaching BK.

So Mark did right for kids inspite of their thoughts of the org. or their agents you don't remember thoughts.....hmmm Seems like your admitting they did them a solid instead of what they could have done lol. I'll pass the praise on.
Dickinson is easily the acquisition that will have by far the biggest imprint on a franchise of all the trades this year. Not even close n book it. If I'm wrong come a calling. ( I also praised the Cuylle deal for Windsor which was similar ;)

I can also say I heard some players don't like Savard. Not sure why you had to go there but ok, get your dig in instead of a convo lol. And you actually said Zito asked to leave why lol left?????
Never change, too easy.

So based on your 1st place defense that Windsor n BB outdid London you must also believe from 2012 the last decade that Windsor fell short of London every single year in the POs but 1 and every single year in the reg season but 2. So LK outsid WS in 17 of 20 Ops. Thanks for bringing that up as your criteria. Not bad thou lol
Actually I owe you an apology regarding Sam Dickinson ,I honestly forgot about that trade prior to the season that London had made,though it does not change my mind regarding trades made
by the teams as it relates to regular season finishes.
I do think however think Christoforo drafted lower then Dickinson, 22nd compared to 4th for Dickinson had a better 1st season overall.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Regarding Windsor's attendance, they had the largest increase in average attendance this season over 2018/19 at +698. Ottawa was next at +539. I don't believe it has anything to do with lifting of covid restrictions because not every team was up, it was the same restrictions for every team located in Ontario.

Spitfires started the season near the bottom. The home opener they had 5,477 and didn't hit 4,000 again until game 10. Game 17 they hit 5,612 and the attendance started to take off. Spits had 11 games below 4,000 Games 2-9 , game 11,13, and 15.

Seems that the attendance increases were more about the team winning than anything else.

Spits were also 9th in terms of capacity (74.5%) And Ottawa, despite having the second largest average increase in attendance, still only played to 43.4% capacity.. and that number is actually lower as the attendance includes a school day game at the Canadian Tire Centre that drew 13,150 and I couldn't be bothered to back it out :)
 

rve24

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Actually I owe you an apology regarding Sam Dickinson ,I honestly forgot about that trade prior to the season that London had made,though it does not change my mind regarding trades made
by the teams as it relates to regular season finishes.
I do think however think Christoforo drafted lower then Dickinson, 22nd compared to 4th for Dickinson had a better 1st season overall.

Even without that trade Diaco, Winterton n Humphrey........vs Wright,Dionicio, GmHRrison, Holmes n the cost vs production to the team........lol. I didn't add JC cause as you posted 100x the eon with MO in spite of him.......basically saying the goalie didn't matter :) your posts all year BK

I thought reg. Season finishes meant nothing as you claimed for a decade plus........lol.
And also OHL playoffs meant nothing you said for 10 years.....which is it? Oh ya it depends haha.
Keep spinning but let's play your game with your rules lol.
I think Dickinson played on a team with a 1st rd NHL D pick, a 4th Rd NHL pick ( a steal as , acknowledge post draft by many hockey people) a 1st rd rated D prospect, another NHL draft pick by the Bruins, what did your hero have to play behind lol. Dickinson on the Spits might have playex top pair lol.......again context matters BK. Something you ignore.
I'll bet whatever you like Dickinson ends up the better player n has a better pro career or is the better OHL player year for their time in the league. We can take a poll from hockey people if ya like. Lets pick 3/4/5 independent people n go from there.......Bet ya don't take me up on your claim. You brought it up so will you back it up? Bet not.


Funny how those 2 are amongst the most criticized players on this board. Coincidence? Not likely.

Yup n this made me chuckle. TY. But but but it helps shows BB is a mastermind to HL.
 
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hockeylegend11

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Even without that trade Diaco, Winterton n Humphrey........vs Wright,Dionicio, GmHRrison, Holmes n the cost vs production to the team........lol. I didn't add JC cause as you posted 100x the eon with MO in spite of him.......basically saying the goalie didn't matter :) your posts all year BK

I thought reg. Season finishes meant nothing as you claimed for a decade plus........lol.
And also OHL playoffs meant nothing you said for 10 years.....which is it? Oh ya it depends haha.
Keep spinning but let's play your game with your rules lol.
I think Dickinson played on a team with a 1st rd NHL D pick, a 4th Rd NHL pick ( a steal as , acknowledge post draft by many hockey people) a 1st rd rated D prospect, another NHL draft pick by the Bruins, what did your hero have to play behind lol. Dickinson on the Spits might have playex top pair lol.......again context matters BK. Something you ignore.
I'll bet whatever you like Dickinson ends up the better player n has a better pro career or is the better OHL player year for their time in the league. We can take a poll from hockey people if ya like. Lets pick 3/4/5 independent people n go from there.......Bet ya don't take me up on your claim. You brought it up so will you back it up? Bet not.




Yup n this made me chuckle. TY. But but but it helps shows BB is a mastermind.
Not sure why you always bring up the past that being said dealing 1st with Costanzo and compare to what I said about M0 because of his average of 4.44 for the season,the team would have to average 5 goals per game to win while he tended goal,they averaged 4.70 per game btw for the season, whereas Costanzo averaged 3.03 per game so only needed 4 per game to win big difference,so no Wiindsor won most nights when MO played this season inspite of him not because of him.
Perhaps as you seem to have answers for everything explain to me why if Windsor's D was so bad how could 1 guy be 3.03 for the season plus 900 save per centage compared to the vet with near 4.50 average and under 870 save percentage.
As for Dickinson and Christoforo, thanks for pointing out the London D as a cover and compliment for him,compared to Christoforo and the D he partnered up on,Dickinson on a better D corps then Windsor 's and also where Christoforo was picked compared to Dickinson you made my argument for this season credible ,I never said anything regarding the future only this past season.
London paid 7 picks,3 2nds,3,3rds and 1 other pick I forget,Windsor only 1 their selection lol.
As for betting on the future regarding these 2 I will pass
I wish both of them well and they are 2 of the most promising of their age group at that position .
 
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windsor7

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Not sure why you always bring up the past that being said dealing 1st with Costanzo and compare to what I said about M0 because of his average of 4.44 for the season,the team would have to average 5 goals per game to win while he tended goal,they averaged 4.70 per game btw for the season, whereas Costanzo averaged 3.03 per game so only needed 4 per game to win big difference,so no Wiindsor won most nights when MO played this season inspite of him not because of him.
Perhaps as you seem to have answers for everything explain to me why if Windsor's D was so bad how could 1 guy be 3.03 for the season plus 900 save per centage compared to the vet with near 4.50 average and under 870 save percentage.
As for Dickinson and Christoforo, thanks for pointing out the London D as a cover and compliment for him,compared to Christoforo and the D he partnered up on,Dickinson on a better D corps then Windsor 's and also where Christoforo was picked compared to Dickinson you made my argument for this season credible ,I never said anything regarding the future only this past season.
London paid 7 picks,3 2nds,3,3rds and 1 other pick I forget,Windsor only 1 their selection lol.
As for betting on the future regarding these 2 I will pass
I wish both of them well and they are 2 of the most promising of their age group at that position .
Windsor defense was bad most if the year...
 

rve24

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Not sure why you always bring up the past that being said dealing 1st with Costanzo and compare to what I said about M0 because of his average of 4.44 for the season,the team would have to average 5 goals per game to win while he tended goal,they averaged 4.70 per game btw for the season, whereas Costanzo averaged 3.03 per game so only needed 4 per game to win big difference,so no Wiindsor won most nights when MO played this season inspite of him not because of him.
Perhaps as you seem to have answers for everything explain to me why if Windsor's D was so bad how could 1 guy be 3.03 for the season plus 900 save per centage compared to the vet with near 4.50 average and under 870 save percentage.
As for Dickinson and Christoforo, thanks for pointing out the London D as a cover and compliment for him,compared to Christoforo and the D he partnered up on,Dickinson on a better D corps then Windsor 's and also where Christoforo was picked compared to Dickinson you made my argument for this season credible ,I never said anything regarding the future only this past season.
London paid 7 picks,3 2nds,3,3rds and 1 other pick I forget,Windsor only 1 their selection lol.
As for betting on the future regarding these 2 I will pass
I wish both of them well and they are 2 of the most promising of their age group at that position .

And yet you bring up the past in every post :) including this one. Cool.
Keep on trying to spin. Always been entertaining.

I only bring up the 10 year past to you cause you always did when Windsor didn't win a single PO round for a decade. Now its an issue for you? Too funny lol.
 
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OHLTG

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If I didn't know better, I think you two like getting each other riled up lol

Perhaps as you seem to have answers for everything explain to me why if Windsor's D was so bad how could 1 guy be 3.03 for the season plus 900 save per centage compared to the vet with near 4.50 average and under 870 save percentage.

Windsor's D wasn't great, let's be honest. They had their great moments and, when they were on, they were incredible. When they were off, though, they were pretty ugly. They were sixth in the conference and 14th in the league, overall, which isn't good.

Why did Costanzo have better numbers than Onuska? Easy - he was better overall and the team played better in front of him. I know I'm not the only one who saw the latter, either.
 
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dirty12

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Dickinson is by far the player who will contribute most in the O from all players traded for. Book it n call me out of wrong lol.
I praidmsed the Cuylee deal when it happened. Very similar.
Keep reaching BK.

So Mark did right for kids inspite of their thoughts of the org. or their agents you don't remember thoughts.....hmmm Seems like your admitting they did them a solid instead of what they could have done lol. I'll pass the praise on.
Dickinson is easily the acquisition that will have by far the biggest imprint on a franchise of all the trades this year. Not even close n book it. If I'm wrong come a calling. ( I also praised the Cuylle deal for Windsor which was similar ;)
Dickinson is considered by some to be the best D prospect to enter the league since Ekblad. His cost reflects that.
But ‘Dickinson will have the biggest imprint on of any player acquired in trade and it won’t even be close’; Idk. Lardis and Martone have made a good impression so far. Martone and VanVolsen have the best chance of leading their new team to an OHL title imo as the Missasauga 2006 born class is outstanding.
I can also say I heard some players don't like Savard. Not sure why you had to go there but ok, get your dig in instead of a convo lol. And you actually said Zito asked to leave why lol left?????
Never change, too easy.

So based on your 1st place defense that Windsor n BB outdid London you must also believe from 2012 the last decade that Windsor fell short of London every single year in the POs but 1 and every single year in the reg season but 2. So LK outsid WS in 17 of 20 Ops. Thanks for bringing that up as your criteria. Not bad thou lol
 
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windsor7

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If I didn't know better, I think you two like getting each other riled up lol



Windsor's D wasn't great, let's be honest. They had their great moments and, when they were on, they were incredible. When they were off, though, they were pretty ugly. They were sixth in the conference and 14th in the league, overall, which isn't good.

Why did Costanzo have better numbers than Onuska? Easy - he was better overall and the team played better in front of him. I know I'm not the only one who saw the latter, either.
Good moments were very rare during a game...
 
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