Will the Flames upgrade the bottom defense pairing for next year

[Anglesmith]

Wotherspoon hasn't earned a spot. Hartley couldn't trust him for more than 4 minutes a game. Like Treliving said, he has to come to training camp and take a spot away.

And like Hartley said, it's not fair to evaluate him based on the minutes he played in the playoffs. It didn't matter really how well Wotherspoon played, due to the situation and the stakes he wasn't going to be leaned on for big minutes.

If Hartley had played him for 4 minutes a night over 5 games in the regular season, then you'd have a point.

But the last part of your post is true. Like anyone else, he has to earn his spot in training camp.

 

[Anglesmith]

Where do you think Engelland should play in the lineup? Try to tell me with a straight face that he played well for the first 3 quarters of the season in a bottom pairing role.

If I said "try to tell me with a straight face that Johnny Gaudreau played well for the first 6 games of the season," out of curiosity, what would your response be? It's meaningless, right?

We have the luxury of evaluating Engelland's body of work throughout the season and in various different situations, and also we have the luxury of acknowledging the various circumstances surrounding that first part of the season. So why would we reduce our decisions going forward down to a very small sample analysis with limited scope when we don't have to? I've never understood that line of reasoning.

 

[Lunatik]

Where do you think Engelland should play in the lineup? Try to tell me with a straight face that he played well for the first 3 quarters of the season in a bottom pairing role.

Actually if you look at my post history I defended Engelland from day one and pointed out that I felt Smid was the problem on that pairing. Engelland play steadily improved throughout the season, to the point where he was playing as I expected when he was signed. Then he improved even more drastically when he started playing bigger minutes with a better partner. As Engelland himself pointed out in his interviews on garbage bag day playing bigger minutes is actually easier as it helps a guy stay sharp and helps keep them in the game.

Engelland should be playing on the 3rd pairing, but he should be playing 15-ish minutes per night. But he and the team are better served having him with a more mobile left-handed defenseman (both Potter and Diaz were right handed and Smid couldn't skate).

 

[Ace Rimmer]

If I said "try to tell me with a straight face that Johnny Gaudreau played well for the first 6 games of the season," out of curiosity, what would your response be? It's meaningless, right?

We have the luxury of evaluating Engelland's body of work throughout the season and in various different situations, and also we have the luxury of acknowledging the various circumstances surrounding that first part of the season. So why would we reduce our decisions going forward down to a very small sample analysis with limited scope when we don't have to? I've never understood that line of reasoning.

But he was a -16 bro, worst on the team.




(because someone will think I'm serious)

Engelland should be playing on the 3rd pairing, but he should be playing 15-ish minutes per night. But he and the team are better served having him with a more mobile left-handed defenseman (both Potter and Diaz were right handed and Smid couldn't skate).

Seconded. Which is why I wanted Chris Butler back, TBH.

 

[western redmen]

The guy I'm looking at is sekera, he is Probably a number 3 and Id like to see him play with Russell and pair engelland with Wideman, I know I know Russell and Wideman had great chemistry, but we need some one who can move the puck up the ice on the 3rd pairing and Wideman is one of the best at it. Play wides 15 mins a game with power play time and I think he will do great things

 

[Lunatik]

Seconded. Which is why I wanted Chris Butler back, TBH.

I think Butler/Engelland could actually be a quite solid third pairing. They both also have the ability to log big minutes if needed.

 

[Skobel24]

Ideally, he's a bottom pairing guy. However, we know that he can step up when it comes down to it. Let me ask you this though. If Giordano went down, and we didn't have Engelland, do you really think a guy like Diaz or Wotherspoon would have been able to handle top 4 minutes? Engelland was **** with Smid, I won't argue that, but the fact is, Calgary would not have made the playoffs if Engelland didn't step up and play the way he did when he was given a top 4 spot to fill in for Gio. He was also a force against Vancouver.

 

[Skobel24]

As for Chris Butler, I'd be okay with bringing him back, but someone else would have to be moved to make that work. Schlemko played well, and should probably be re-signed. Diaz was okay. Wotherspoon may wind up stealing that spot. Smid may be ready as well.

 

[Lunatik]

As for Chris Butler, I'd be okay with bringing him back, but someone else would have to be moved to make that work. Schlemko played well, and should probably be re-signed. Diaz was okay. Wotherspoon may wind up stealing that spot. Smid may be ready as well.

We aren't suggesting bringing Butler back, just saying that we supported him returning this past season when he left the organization.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Ideally, he's a bottom pairing guy. However, we know that he can step up when it comes down to it. Let me ask you this though. If Giordano went down, and we didn't have Engelland, do you really think a guy like Diaz or Wotherspoon would have been able to handle top 4 minutes? Engelland was **** with Smid, I won't argue that, but the fact is, Calgary would not have made the playoffs if Engelland didn't step up and play the way he did when he was given a top 4 spot to fill in for Gio. He was also a force against Vancouver.

I truly think Schlemko could have done the same thing as Engelland given the opportunity. In my mind Schlemko has always been a superior defeseman to Engelland.

Also, I'm not denying Engelland stepped up during the stretch, but to act like he was our savior is overblowing by far.

 

[Lunatik]

I truly think Schlemko could have done the same thing as Engelland given the opportunity. In my mind Schlemko has always been a superior defeseman to Engelland.

Also, I'm not denying Engelland stepped up during the stretch, but to act like he was our savior is overblowing by far.

No one is saying Engelland was a saviour. All of Engelland, Brodie, Wideman and Russell stepped up, without any of them doing that we wouldn't have made the playoffs, let alone beat Vancouver.

 

[Skobel24]

We aren't suggesting bringing Butler back, just saying that we supported him returning this past season when he left the organization.

Ah, I misunderstood.

 

[Lunatik]

Ah, I misunderstood.

Easy enough to do since Butler is a UFA this summer.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I don't think any of our young guys are truly NHL ready, but they're all close enough that a season on the bottom pairing would be better experience than a season in the AHL.


Hopefully we have Schlemko / Diaz back as our bottom pairing next year.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

No one is saying Engelland was a saviour. All of Engelland, Brodie, Wideman and Russell stepped up, without any of them doing that we wouldn't have made the playoffs, let alone beat Vancouver.

The post I was responding too made it seem that way. He never mentioned Wideman, Brodie, or Russell, only Engelland and said if he didn't step up we would have never made playoffs, thus making it seem as though Engelland was the only one in his mind that stepped up. It was only in response to him and no one else

 

[CraigsList]

We aren't suggesting bringing Butler back, just saying that we supported him returning this past season when he left the organization.

I think we were willing to re-sign him, but he wanted to play hockey where is wife worked (someone correct me if I am wrong on this).

St. Louis was where she worked, so he went for a job with the Blues when they were already stacked. He did manage to get 33 GP with them tough, so good for him.

I remember I had to defend him on CP because CP always looks for a whipping boy.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I think we were willing to re-sign him, but he wanted to play hockey where is wife worked (someone correct me if I am wrong on this).

St. Louis was where she worked, so he went for a job with the Blues when they were already stacked. He did manage to get 33 GP with them tough, so good for him.

I remember I had to defend him on CP because CP always looks for a whipping boy.

Not even worth wasting time and going on. No one cares, there will be always a scapegoat.

 

[Lunatik]

The post I was responding too made it seem that way. He never mentioned Wideman, Brodie, or Russell, only Engelland and said if he didn't step up we would have never made playoffs, thus making it seem as though Engelland was the only one in his mind that stepped up. It was only in response to him and no one else

I know what the post said and IMO he is 100% correct. We would not have made the playoffs if Engelland hadn't stepped up his game after Giordano's injury. The reason he only mentioned Engelland is because the debate is about Engelland, not about Russell or Wideman or Brodie.

 

[CraigsList]

Not even worth wasting time and going on. No one cares, there will be always a scapegoat.

I usually go there because you have those handful of posters who just know absolutely everything about the Flames. It's great getting insight from those kind of people.

Since around 2015, I've noticed I don't go there as much as I do here now.

 

[Skobel24]

The post I was responding too made it seem that way. He never mentioned Wideman, Brodie, or Russell, only Engelland and said if he didn't step up we would have never made playoffs, thus making it seem as though Engelland was the only one in his mind that stepped up. It was only in response to him and no one else

To be clear, all 4 of them stepped up big time. I'm just defending Engelland, as a few people here seem to really discredit what it was he did for this team.

 

[Skobel24]

Not even worth wasting time and going on. No one cares, there will be always a scapegoat.

CalgaryPuck is terrible. I do enjoy their off topic stuff though.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

To be clear, all 4 of them stepped up big time. I'm just defending Engelland, as a few people here seem to really discredit what it was he did for this team.

Fair enough

 

[Lunatik]

To be clear, all 4 of them stepped up big time. I'm just defending Engelland, as a few people here seem to really discredit what it was he did for this team.

Whew, good thing I read that right or I'd looked dumb

 

[Skobel24]

Whew, good thing I read that right or I'd looked dumb

Our minds are linked.

 

[Lunatik]

Our minds are linked.

I'm sorry to hear that, it really puts you at a disadvantage