Will the Flames upgrade the bottom defense pairing for next year

[SmellOfVictory]

If Engelland can bring down Brodie's play, why can't Brodie bring down Giordano's play?

Giordano is a superior defenseman to Brodie, just like Brodie is superior to Engelland. When Brodie was no longer playing with Giordano his play dropped. Everyone likes to attribute it to Engelland but it also coincided with Giordano getting hurt.

For the record, I am just pointing out how flawed and ridiculous your statement is.

edit:

for Flames Maniac

Your argument is taken to the absurd. Brodie's shot attempt differential with Engelland drops from like 45% to 35%. It's also patently obvious watching Engelland on the ice that he shouldn't be anywhere near the top 4.

As to the other half of your argument, http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1338&withagainst=true&season=2012-15&sit=5v5.

Gio with Brodie: 52%; Gio without Brodie: 47%.

Engelland sucks the biggest balls and I really wish people would stop defending him based on "good in the lockerroom" or "stabilizing back-end presence" (the only thing stabilizing is his effect on stabilizing the opposing team's possession in the Flames' zone).

 

[Justanotherflamesfan]

Your argument is taken to the absurd. Brodie's shot attempt differential with Engelland drops from like 45% to 35%. It's also patently obvious watching Engelland on the ice that he shouldn't be anywhere near the top 4.

As to the other half of your argument, http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1338&withagainst=true&season=2012-15&sit=5v5.

Gio with Brodie: 52%; Gio without Brodie: 47%.

Engelland sucks the biggest balls and I really wish people would stop defending him based on "good in the lockerroom" or "stabilizing back-end presence" (the only thing stabilizing is his effect on stabilizing the opposing team's possession in the Flames' zone).

Well here's the thing tho, I agree engelland should not be a top 4 guy but when gio went down he did step up tho, u cant deny it it's just fact, I also agree Brodie played way better with gio as his partner but u can't knock a guy who did step up as marginal as it was, there's something to say for that

 

[Calculon]

Engelland stepped up in the same way Butler stepped up when he was paired alongside Bouwmeester on the top pairing.

 

[Anglesmith]

Here's why the conversation is absurd in the first place. We do not ever expect to have 6+ defencemen who are all as good as one another. There is a pecking order. With any pairing you suggest, there will be one guy better than the other. In such a situation, you can always make the case that one guy is carrying the other guy, and the other guy is dragging down the one guy. So what's the point?

Engelland isn't as good as Giordano, and wasn't signed to be as good as Giordano. That a Brodie-Engelland pairing isn't as good as a Giordano-Brodie pairing proves nothing other than the fact that Engelland is worse than Giordano. I guess it's good to get some closure on that point. Similarly, that a Giordano-Brodie pairing is better than a Giordano-anyone or a Brodie-anyone pairing just proves that Giordano and Brodie are the two best defencemen on our team. All these possession with/possession without numbers end up showing us is effectively a depth chart of the quality of our defencemen, and that is something we all pretty much know already:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Russell
4. Wideman
5. Engelland
6. Diaz

Omitting a healthy Smid, of course. So what's the point of this discussion?

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Here's why the conversation is absurd in the first place. We do not ever expect to have 6+ defencemen who are all as good as one another. There is a pecking order. With any pairing you suggest, there will be one guy better than the other. In such a situation, you can always make the case that one guy is carrying the other guy, and the other guy is dragging down the one guy. So what's the point?

Engelland isn't as good as Giordano, and wasn't signed to be as good as Giordano. That a Brodie-Engelland pairing isn't as good as a Giordano-Brodie pairing proves nothing other than the fact that Engelland is worse than Giordano. I guess it's good to get some closure on that point. Similarly, that a Giordano-Brodie pairing is better than a Giordano-anyone or a Brodie-anyone pairing just proves that Giordano and Brodie are the two best defencemen on our team. All these possession with/possession without numbers end up showing us is effectively a depth chart of the quality of our defencemen, and that is something we all pretty much know already:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Russell
4. Wideman
5. Engelland
6. Diaz

Omitting a healthy Smid, of course. So what's the point of this discussion?

This a discussion forum. We can discuss anything we want. You machiavellian cabal can't tell us what to do. In fact, you should be an agent provocateur.

So sick of this agitprop and hegemony stuff.
lol

 

[Anglesmith]

This a discussion forum. We can discuss anything we want. You machiavellian cabal can't tell us what to do. In fact, you should be an agent provocateur.

So sick of this agitprop and hegemony stuff.
lol

No hegemony intended, and I didn't think I put any agitprop in my post at all.

It's an open question, not a request to stop discussing the matter. Why is it so crucial to point out Engelland's ability relative to our other defencemen?

 

[Lunatik]

Here's why the conversation is absurd in the first place. We do not ever expect to have 6+ defencemen who are all as good as one another. There is a pecking order. With any pairing you suggest, there will be one guy better than the other. In such a situation, you can always make the case that one guy is carrying the other guy, and the other guy is dragging down the one guy. So what's the point?

Engelland isn't as good as Giordano, and wasn't signed to be as good as Giordano. That a Brodie-Engelland pairing isn't as good as a Giordano-Brodie pairing proves nothing other than the fact that Engelland is worse than Giordano. I guess it's good to get some closure on that point. Similarly, that a Giordano-Brodie pairing is better than a Giordano-anyone or a Brodie-anyone pairing just proves that Giordano and Brodie are the two best defencemen on our team. All these possession with/possession without numbers end up showing us is effectively a depth chart of the quality of our defencemen, and that is something we all pretty much know already:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Russell
4. Wideman
5. Engelland
6. Diaz

Omitting a healthy Smid, of course. So what's the point of this discussion?

Thank Dr. Feelgood. This is more or less what I was getting at the whole time.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Here's why the conversation is absurd in the first place. We do not ever expect to have 6+ defencemen who are all as good as one another. There is a pecking order. With any pairing you suggest, there will be one guy better than the other. In such a situation, you can always make the case that one guy is carrying the other guy, and the other guy is dragging down the one guy. So what's the point?

Engelland isn't as good as Giordano, and wasn't signed to be as good as Giordano. That a Brodie-Engelland pairing isn't as good as a Giordano-Brodie pairing proves nothing other than the fact that Engelland is worse than Giordano. I guess it's good to get some closure on that point. Similarly, that a Giordano-Brodie pairing is better than a Giordano-anyone or a Brodie-anyone pairing just proves that Giordano and Brodie are the two best defencemen on our team. All these possession with/possession without numbers end up showing us is effectively a depth chart of the quality of our defencemen, and that is something we all pretty much know already:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Russell
4. Wideman
5. Engelland
6. Diaz

Omitting a healthy Smid, of course. So what's the point of this discussion?

It's not all relative though.

There's relatives, and absolutes.

Yes, Relatively, Gio "carried" Brodie while Brodie carried Engelland.

But, Absolutely, Gio and Brodie were a(n elite and complementary) pairing of Top 3D pairing calibre players where one might be a bit better than the other while Brodie and Engelland was a #6D being paired with, ostensibly, a #1D. It's similar to the Fowler/Lovejoy pairing Ducks were so glad to finally rid themselves of with picking up Depres.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Flames D can't even keep it 1 hunnid.