Will The AHL Add a 33rd Team to Fix the Carolina Problem?
- Thread starter Cynicaps
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GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Well, for starters, stop running your posts through Google Translate about a dozen times!
Second, most of the AHL is NOT a bus league! Tell that to Charlotte and Texas!
Are we sure you aren't Hutch's cousin?
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
For Charlotte, that's on Dundon. He thought he could jerk around the Checkers, and it backfired on him. I think even Caniacs can agree to that, as it was a team in-state, and we definitely had a good thing going.
But Chicago? They always are difficult to work with. They tell the NHL team "we wanna win the Calder Cup this year, stop bossing us around!" The fact we had two Calder Cup champs in that period, as well, made things even more awkward.
Yeah, but... try explaining that to people who either don't have a basic grasp of the English language, or think the world revolves around Manchester, New Hampshire.
Very few of you hang out in the slums of the ECHL subforum.
Can you show me examples of when or where Chicago has been as you say..."difficult to work with"?
Crunchrulz
Registered User
Those AHL teams based in the North East do consider the AHL a bus league, which is why some of those teams play each other 8-10 times vice travelling to Chicago or other points west. Syracuse to Providence is maybe 6 hours by bus, which is usually the longest trip the Crunch make.
There are frequent flights to and from Tampa from Syracuse, so it is not exactly the backwoods hick town you make it out to be. Tampa likes the atmosphere in Syracuse, as well as the savings in travel time from game to game.
Yes, the arena is a POS that the County keeps putting more paint on the cover the stench of the fact it is older than most of us posting here. The county and state totally dropped the ball when they built an outdoor concert venue and a small Expo Center on the State Fairgrounds rather than combining those costs into a year round 10-12k seat facility, but what is done is done.
Far more importantly, the Crunch and the Mets (AAA baseball) will ALWAYS be second fiddle to the local news agencies to what happen on the Syracuse University campus. That is a given fact regarding Central New York sports, and it will never change.
Dolgon has always said he would not consider moving/selling the team until they hang a new AHL Championship banner from the rafters. That being typed, if Onondaga County keeps jerking him around with false promises and hollow words, anything is possible. Should he opt to leave, Syracuse will see the hockey void quickly filled as the FPHL is headquartered in Syracuse, and that would create an immediate rivalry with both Watertown and Binghamton as both of those clubs are less than an hour away in opposite direction on I81.
The issue of the Wolves not being willing to develop players was cited as the reason the Canucks ended their relationship in 2013.
The same issues of Chicago not being willing to develop players was cited when they ended the affiliation with St. Louis in 2018. When Chicago is complaining that their AHL signees were outproducing St. Louis's prospects, they take no responsibility for failure to develop those prospects.
Finally, Waddell noted when Carolina affiliated with the Wolves that one of the reasons they affiliated with the Wolves was because the Wolves were willing to pay for veterans. Now Chicago is apparently balking at paying for those veterans.
Chicago has repeatedly failed to show they are willing to play the primary role of an AHL franchise: developing prospects for the NHL. It's why Vancouver left, it's why St. Louis left, and now Carolina is leaving because Chicago wants Carolina to pay for more AHL veterans.
The only relationship of late that seemed to go well was the Vegas one when Vegas had few prospects and needed a large number of veterans to fill an AHL roster. But as soon as Vegas had larger numbers of prospects, they decided to buy an AHL affiliate and locate them closer to Las Vegas.
You are REALLY reaching a bit with some of this...What the article about Vancouver failed to conveniently mention was Vancouver's desire to OWN there own affiliate...That move would've happened no matter what because they did in fact buy Peoria from St. Louis...if they weren't already looking to make that move why were they investigating the possible sale of Peoria?
The St Louis situation was simple in the fact that St Louis made promises to chicago about certain player personal moves and then reniged on them pure and simple. And the prospects they sent weren't really anything to write home about save for a few.
NOW you are REALLY reaching with the Carolina hyperbole...Carolina didn't go anywhere...Chicago made the decision to not renew the contract with Carolina...not the other way around. And isn't it funny that the fact that you mysteriously left out the whole Charlotte fiasco so that your story sounds good...
don't you find it awfully funny that Carolina burned through 2 affiliates in the last 4 yrs? And basically for the same reason in both cases...$$$$$$$$
But of course that was Chicago's fault also...You seem to FORGET,,,,Carolina was in this place last time also and Chicago bailed their asses out...When Vegas bought San Antonio that forced St. Louis to look for a new place...they landed in Springfield the former home of Florida...Florida ended up going to Charlotte after the hurricanes burned that bridge...had chicago and florida decided to work together that would've left Carolina on an island with NO PLACE to put their players back in 2020...Again Chicago bailed them out and it was only due to the friendship between Wolves owner Don Levin and Don Waddell. The comment about how the Wolves were willing to help pay for vets is accurate...BUT...what you left out was the part where the onwer of Carolina wanted to fire his own AHL coach in the middle of the Calder Cups Finals for not playing who he...the owner...wanted him to play...add to that this past season where everytime the Wolves wanted to make a deal to strengthen their club Carolina vetoed it...then add to that the coach of chicago last year being told not to worry about winning games just clear the lineup through us before each game...ya want more? Ok ...I PERSONALLY talked to Andrew Poturalski during the western conference fimnals and ask him If the story was true that Carolina owner Tom Dundin told Don Waddell to tell Chicago after the 2022 Championship that if they wanted any of these guys back they would have to foot the bill 100%...He looked at me kinda surprised that i knew that and said YES it is 100% true. Take a look at that Wolves roster from that year and look at ALL the players on that team that went on to other teams after the 2022 season...the only players left were guys who had another year on their deal or carolina prospects...The BIG story after the finals was alex lyon flipping off the fans in Springfield...except that having talked to people and the story coming out about carolina's meddling with the team during the finals it should come as no surprise that where he flipped off was also where the carolina brass was sitting...hmmmm...and where did lyon sign last year? Florida/Charlotte
Do the wolves want to win...of course they are an independently owned team who relies on butts in the seats to pay the bills and not some millionaire with a toy like in the NHL.
Add to that that a winning atmosphere makes it much more enjoyable to come to the rink everyday and also players who develop in a winning atmosphere tend to develop better and at a quicker pace.
Don't believe me...that's fine maybe this next part will get through...The Detroit Red Wings FIRED the entire coaching staff in Grand Rapids including someone i know personally this off season...the reason? According to Detroit General Manager AND National Hockey League Hockey Hall of Famer Steve Yzerman...we haven't made the playoffs in Grand Rapids in a couple of years and that's unacceptable... we need to develop a culture of winning so that our player are prepared to win at the NHL level and it starts in Grand Rapids with our minor league club...Sorry but i'll take Yzerman's opinion over yours...AND ESPECIALLY over a millionaire with a toy who thinks he knows something about a game that he never played.
So please do tell me how it's the Wolves fault that Van and Vegas wanted their own affiliates...and how St Louis was also Chicago's fault...guess San Antonio selling their team to vegas and not even telling the Blues was somehow Chicago's fault. And it's also Chicago's fault that Carolina has burned 2 different affiliates in 4 years but instead of saying gee why is that happening its much easier to go with the ever so popular Chicago doesn't develop anyone...which is especially funny when you look at the Vegas Golden Knights and how many players came through Chicago when they were affiliated and OH my God let's not forget the guys who came through Chicago and went on to win a cup in St Louis...And Oh Man...Ivan Barbashev came through Chicago and GASP...he won a cup with BOTH teams...Can you just imagine how many cups these teams would've won had the Wolves been willing to develop their prospects. Maybe the real reason these NHL teams like Vancouver and carolina want to blame Chicago is that they haven't won when they were expected to and they needed to blame someone other than themselves.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Or... You just want to blame Carolina and act like Chicago is this blameless, innocent franchise minding it's own business.
First, Carolina walked away from Charlotte because the owner, who was previously a minority owner in the Hurricanes under Karmanos, thought he could hold the Canes hostage because of his status with the Canes and the proximity of the team. Carolina understandably walked away, and the fact that Waddell explicitly calls out Chicago's willingness to pay for veterans is evidence that Charlotte was not.
You conveniently ignore the words from the Canucks GM that the Wolves would not play prospects. The Blues board has repeated mentions of the Wolves refusing to play prospects, particularly prospects brought in later in the season. Jordan Kyrou was sent to Chicago after an OHL season and got ONE regular season and ZERO playoff games. Yes, the Wolves had access to Jordan Kyrou and chose to play AAAA players instead.
Kochetkov matched Alex Lyon's performance in the regular season (slightly better, in fact) and completely outplayed Lyon in the AHL playoffs (.950 SV%, 1.65 GAA). So of course Carolina was ticked off the coach they brought from Charlotte wasn't starting the superior goalie. That's not evidence of playing to win.
Carolina's affiliates won 2 straight Calder Cups, so it's hard to argue the Canes aren't interested in winning or able to balance developing talent and winning cups. They won in Charlotte; they won in Chicago. But when they see superior prospects being benched for inferior veteran AAAA players, they can be and should be angry.
And as far as the veterans of the 21-22 Wolves team, they went on to get opportunities to play in the NHL. Which AHL veterans want! Leivo played all season with the Blues. Noesen and Chatfield play full seasons in Carolina. Poturalski got a 2 year 1-way deal with the Kraken. Lajoie now has a 1-way deal with Toronto. That's what happens to a successful AHL team: the veterans get chances to prove themselves at the NHL level and leave. As they are supposed to do from a developmental league.
I'm not concerned about Carolina going through 2 bad AHL affiliates in 4 years; that happens. The Wolves burning 4 different affiliations since 2011, 3 of them ending badly per comments in public, and now unable to find anyone willing to affiliate with them on their terms? That's a sign the problem in this relationship wasn't Carolina. Chicago had issues with Vancouver, with St. Louis, and now with Carolina.
You conveniently ignore the words from the Canucks GM that the Wolves would not play prospects. The Blues board has repeated mentions of the Wolves refusing to play prospects, particularly prospects brought in later in the season. Jordan Kyrou was sent to Chicago after an OHL season and got ONE regular season and ZERO playoff games. Yes, the Wolves had access to Jordan Kyrou and chose to play AAAA players instead.
Kochetkov matched Alex Lyon's performance in the regular season (slightly better, in fact) and completely outplayed Lyon in the AHL playoffs (.950 SV%, 1.65 GAA). So of course Carolina was ticked off the coach they brought from Charlotte wasn't starting the superior goalie. That's not evidence of playing to win.
Carolina's affiliates won 2 straight Calder Cups, so it's hard to argue the Canes aren't interested in winning or able to balance developing talent and winning cups. They won in Charlotte; they won in Chicago. But when they see superior prospects being benched for inferior veteran AAAA players, they can be and should be angry.
And as far as the veterans of the 21-22 Wolves team, they went on to get opportunities to play in the NHL. Which AHL veterans want! Leivo played all season with the Blues. Noesen and Chatfield play full seasons in Carolina. Poturalski got a 2 year 1-way deal with the Kraken. Lajoie now has a 1-way deal with Toronto. That's what happens to a successful AHL team: the veterans get chances to prove themselves at the NHL level and leave. As they are supposed to do from a developmental league.
I'm not concerned about Carolina going through 2 bad AHL affiliates in 4 years; that happens. The Wolves burning 4 different affiliations since 2011, 3 of them ending badly per comments in public, and now unable to find anyone willing to affiliate with them on their terms? That's a sign the problem in this relationship wasn't Carolina. Chicago had issues with Vancouver, with St. Louis, and now with Carolina.
The Facts still sound like trouble
1 Carolina could have very easily made amends. They really created a mess for themselves
not just with ownership but with the fans down in charlotte, nc
Charlotte could easily survive and be either in the ECHL or the Ahl
Either way it does create the correct message for the fans in
charlotte or North Carolina
This is not at all the way a responsible caring owner should act
Stop defending an owner that does not care about North carolina!!!!
2 Carolina changed the direction of the way they wanted to handle there
farm system. It makes them look like we will not invest in
our farm system winning at all. We only care about us....
These are the messages that carolina has sent to Chicago
Those and those alone are the facts....
It is very very sad that I have to tell you these things
Carolina ownership does need to step up
and the bottom line is nothing you can say or do
will persuade me to believe you when I see
are facts that point in a different direction
By the way, they put themselves in a real pit this season
They did not really invest in any depth this season
By the way, I do not live in Charlotte or
I do wish the hurricanes and the fans all the best
My only complaint is in my opinion they have totally
dropped the ball in the farm system and they way they operate
Time will only tell they could still right the ship in the future
However, In Charlotte, Carolina Hurricanes do need to
realize people have been very very loyal to you
This should mean everything to you....
Best of luck...
1 Carolina could have very easily made amends. They really created a mess for themselves
not just with ownership but with the fans down in charlotte, nc
Charlotte could easily survive and be either in the ECHL or the Ahl
Either way it does create the correct message for the fans in
charlotte or North Carolina
This is not at all the way a responsible caring owner should act
Stop defending an owner that does not care about North carolina!!!!
2 Carolina changed the direction of the way they wanted to handle there
farm system. It makes them look like we will not invest in
our farm system winning at all. We only care about us....
These are the messages that carolina has sent to Chicago
Those and those alone are the facts....
It is very very sad that I have to tell you these things
Carolina ownership does need to step up
and the bottom line is nothing you can say or do
will persuade me to believe you when I see
are facts that point in a different direction
By the way, they put themselves in a real pit this season
They did not really invest in any depth this season
By the way, I do not live in Charlotte or
I do wish the hurricanes and the fans all the best
My only complaint is in my opinion they have totally
dropped the ball in the farm system and they way they operate
Time will only tell they could still right the ship in the future
However, In Charlotte, Carolina Hurricanes do need to
realize people have been very very loyal to you
This should mean everything to you....
Best of luck...
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13 forwards on one way deals, 7 prospects coming to camp and they will likely find AHL spots for 6 of them. 5 PTOs to fill out training camp and maybe be signed.
9 defensemen on one way deals, 5 prospects coming to camp and will likely find AHL spots for 4 of them. 1 more D PTO.
2 goalies on one way deals. Kochetkov will likely land somewhere in the AHL until injury. Perets likely to the ECHL.
They will be fine on depth for this season, especially if they sign any PTOs.
9 defensemen on one way deals, 5 prospects coming to camp and will likely find AHL spots for 4 of them. 1 more D PTO.
2 goalies on one way deals. Kochetkov will likely land somewhere in the AHL until injury. Perets likely to the ECHL.
They will be fine on depth for this season, especially if they sign any PTOs.
I think Carolina should launch an AHL affiliate in Greensboro.
Also, the divisions should be realigned to be more balanced. Greensboro would join the Atlantic Division, Grand Rapids would move to the North Division, and Calgary and Colorado would move to the Central.
Also, the divisions should be realigned to be more balanced. Greensboro would join the Atlantic Division, Grand Rapids would move to the North Division, and Calgary and Colorado would move to the Central.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
I was going to go into another in-depth destruction of your idiotic statements as well as your tragic lack of attachment to reality. However, after reading this moronic statement you've stuffed into this thread does nothing but re-verifies you aren't worth the time it would take to write that out.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Please allow me to attempt to settle this argument.
If you’re an owner, you are invited to share the blame.
If you’re the Wolves, set up a new league with promotion and relegation or just get OUT. Only because I said so.
And no, the world does not revolve around Manchester, New Hampshire. Beaverton, Oregon, where Nike exists, is WAY closer to the center of the universe, and they seem content to let the Portland Winterhawks be the hockey presence in the Portland Metropolitan Area, so perhaps hockey fans should simply question the concept of the universe.
Also, I apologize for spewing all this in complete grammatically correct sentences. It’s a bad habit and I shall endeavor to do better.
If you’re an owner, you are invited to share the blame.
If you’re the Wolves, set up a new league with promotion and relegation or just get OUT. Only because I said so.
And no, the world does not revolve around Manchester, New Hampshire. Beaverton, Oregon, where Nike exists, is WAY closer to the center of the universe, and they seem content to let the Portland Winterhawks be the hockey presence in the Portland Metropolitan Area, so perhaps hockey fans should simply question the concept of the universe.
Also, I apologize for spewing all this in complete grammatically correct sentences. It’s a bad habit and I shall endeavor to do better.
The final answer no the board of governors have voted No there will not be a 33rd franchise...but what they will be doing is closing the loophole that started this mess...that is the part that says you have to be affiliated to join the ahl but not to continue to play...they will be updating that to say that you must maintain an affiliation to stay in the league
So what does this mean for Carolina? For Chicago? Does it force the two to play nice for 2024-25? Or does it mean that if Chicago tells the AHL to pound sand that they get kicked out and Carolina gets a replacement team?
The lack of a farm system infrastructure shows in the recent malaise on the ice and this should raise alarms.
Centrum Hockey
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2018
- 2,092
- 728
Considering the Wolves are currently thirty second in the overall league standings, Wendell Young should be on his knees begging for Carolina to take them back.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
My impression is that Wendell Young begs to nobody. His business, his plan.
Bingo!!! And as recently as last home weekend a week plus ago there were Carolina brass at the games and in talking with a couple of Hockey ops guys the find out phase for carolina has begun and the Wolves aren't the ones "finding" out per say because carolina had been in the Wolves ear about it to quite some time now
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
No teams left available to buy. 20/32 are directly owned by their NHL affiliate, all but three or four are close enough geographically and relationship wise where they essentially have the stability and status of direct ownership, the few remaining independents aren't selling.
Centrum Hockey
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2018
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Charlotte has been rumored to be for sale for years however does Dundon(who hates unnecessary spending) want to pay to buy the team and pay the extra expenses that come with charlotte being on an island?
NYRfan85
D'oh!
I believe that bridge has been burned, no way Kahn sells to the Canes after what transpired.
The Checkers and Florida Panthers have a good relationship going, so I think we'll continue to see that for a few years. No reason for either team to break that.
