Post-Game Talk: Wild vs Jets - Bell MTS Place - 7:00pm CT (preseason)

[Daximus]

For next game I want to see

Kulikov - Trouba
Stanley - Myers
Niku - Poolman

Make it happen Mo.

 

[Ducky10]

Those PP assists are not difficult to make IMO.

Plus what does that even mean? Buff has assisted Laine's PP goals so we should not expect more?

Lol...wut?

I love how everything bad with the PP is Buff's fault and when he performs well he still gets no credit.

The PP has more issues than Buff, he's one piece, a very important piece to anyone paying attention. They lacked direction a lot last season, not everybody was on the same page and I don't think that necessarily rests on individual players.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I deleted a lot of your post because that looks like stuff You are atributing to me somehow. Those are not my words.

Again what's to understand? Did you listen to Maurice?

1) he wants to find out now if LSW has chemistry or works together

2) he wants to find out how successful Laine can be playing his offwing

Seems like you don't "understand" because you don't like Maurice or he doesn't do things the way you want. His approach is logical in the context above. He stated not that the lines may change, he stated they will change inseason. He said every team does.

The only part I attributed to you was the bolded.

You were objecting to the idea - from some posters - of putting Connor with Roslovic. To make my position clear I said that I was not 1 of those.

We seem to be at cross purposes here. I'm not arguing with you. I am discussing some points you have made. There is some overlap with points some others have made.

I think I have been very clear about exactly what it is that I don't understand and also what I do understand and why.

Where did I say I don't like Maurice? I've expressed skepticism about the top 2 lines since they came out. I've explained why. I've also stated repeatedly that I'm open to see them tried and happy with them if they work out.

 

[grieves]

Lol...wut?

I love how everything bad with the PP is Buff's fault and when he performs well he still gets no credit.

The PP has more issues than Buff, he's one piece, a very important piece to anyone paying attention. They lacked direction a lot last season, not everybody was on the same page and I don't think that necessarily rests on individual players.

Well yeah he makes a good fake shot or a head fake before the pass to Laine but I mean there is not a lot going on usually. It seems like a pretty straight forward pass otherwise. I could be wrong.

My point is not to rip on Buff. It is to point out that wasting valuable Laine scoring chances on the PP is sub-optimal IMO. The ones he does not, good on him. Good job.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Well yeah he makes a good fake shot or a head fake before the pass to Laine but I mean there is not a lot going on usually. It seems like a pretty straight forward pass otherwise. I could be wrong.

My point is not to rip on Buff. It is to point out that wasting valuable Laine scoring chances on the PP is sub-optimal IMO. The ones he does not, good on him. Good job.

That fake shot froze many of the defenders, and probably held the goalie long enough that when Buff teed up a perfect pass to Laine, that the goalie was in motion when Laine shot.

It was an amazing shot, but downplaying Buff's contribution seems silly. If anything, having Buff as a threat up top to keep the PK honest is a good thing for Laine. Some of the posters here may not have seen Buff's PP acumen in the past, but he's pretty damned good from the point as well.

I'd rather have one threat on the half wall and one on the point to keep the PK guessing, than have Laine shut down and no other strong outlets.

 

[surixon]

That fake shot froze many of the defenders, and probably held the goalie long enough that when Buff teed up a perfect pass to Laine, that the goalie was in motion when Laine shot.

It was an amazing shot, but downplaying Buff's contribution seems silly. If anything, having Buff as a threat up top to keep the PK honest is a good thing for Laine. Some of the posters here may not have seen Buff's PP acumen in the past, but he's pretty damned good from the point as well.

I'd rather have one threat on the half wall and one on the point to keep the PK guessing, than have Laine shut down and no other strong outlets.

Then only thing we are missing is a left shot half boards Pp QB. If Petan can grow into that role we can have 3 deadly RS shooting options to go with a met front presence.

 

[Aavco Cup]

The only part I attributed to you was the bolded.

You were objecting to the idea - from some posters - of putting Connor with Roslovic. To make my position clear I said that I was not 1 of those.

We seem to be at cross purposes here. I'm not arguing with you. I am discussing some points you have made. There is some overlap with points some others have made.

I think I have been very clear about exactly what it is that I don't understand and also what I do understand and why.

Where did I say I don't like Maurice? I've expressed skepticism about the top 2 lines since they came out. I've explained why. I've also stated repeatedly that I'm open to see them tried and happy with them if they work out.

If you disagree with Maurice then come out and say it. To say you don't understand what he's doing is disingenuous. He's explained himself. It's not illogical. It makes sense.

You may not agree with what he's doing but it seems like a valid strategy to me. Why isn't it logical to try what he's trying? Just because you prefer ESL?

Do you like Maurice? It doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[KingBogo]

Connor is being put in a role to succeed IMO. He is getting a role that involves playing less minutes than the other roles being advocated. He is being given a role that will likely mean playing more often against the other teams third pair. He is being given less responsibilty in the sense that he is not being relied upon on day 1 to be a major contributer to team success. He is being given room to grow into his role on the team.

Unless of course you measure success strictly by how many points he scores. I don't think that is what is intended here. The Jets are not willing to "wait" for him to grow into a top 6 role. They need to know for sure. Not with the win now attitude

He's still an unproven AHL player trying to make the jump to the NHL.

I don't understand why you don't understand what Maurice is doing here. Did you listen to his pressers? He wants to find out now if the LSW line is going to be dynamic. If it ain't working he'll change it up. There's nothing wrong with his logic in this IMO.

The one interesting aspect of Laine playing with Scheifele and Wheeler is how successful can Laine be in a cycle game. Laine struggled pushing possession last season while Scheifele and Wheeler are strong possession guys who cycle very well and play a strong game along the boards in the offensive zone. You add a more mature and stronger Laine this becomes a line that can become a possession beast. IMO we saw it a bit last night but with Laine on the ice Scheifele gets freed up in front while cycling. Last season Laine scored a lot off the rush and on the PP, you add another way for offense to be generated for him and he is well on his way to being a 50 goal scorer.

 

[buggs]

That fake shot froze many of the defenders, and probably held the goalie long enough that when Buff teed up a perfect pass to Laine, that the goalie was in motion when Laine shot.

It was an amazing shot, but downplaying Buff's contribution seems silly. If anything, having Buff as a threat up top to keep the PK honest is a good thing for Laine. Some of the posters here may not have seen Buff's PP acumen in the past, but he's pretty damned good from the point as well.

I'd rather have one threat on the half wall and one on the point to keep the PK guessing, than have Laine shut down and no other strong outlets.

You mean as opposed to having Enstrom up top where everyone in the building including the players on the opposing team know he's not going to shoot so a fake freezes absolutely nobody?

 

[Narow]

The one interesting aspect of Laine playing with Scheifele and Wheeler is how successful can Laine be in a cycle game. Laine struggled pushing possession last season while Scheifele and Wheeler are strong possession guys who cycle very well and play a strong game along the boards in the offensive zone. You add a more mature and stronger Laine this becomes a line that can become a possession beast. IMO we saw it a bit last night but with Laine on the ice Scheifele gets freed up in front while cycling. Last season Laine scored a lot off the rush and on the PP, you add another way for offense to be generated for him and he is well on his way to being a 50 goal scorer.

Someone who gets it.

Last year laine was the forward who played least wkth wheeler, he also happend to have the worst possrsion stats. Little, perrault, ehlers, scheifele all played alot with wheeler and had a much better possesion game with him vs without.

I want to see a laine with more shots and scheifele wheeler laine line is the way to go for that to happend based on last season

 

[grieves]

That fake shot froze many of the defenders, and probably held the goalie long enough that when Buff teed up a perfect pass to Laine, that the goalie was in motion when Laine shot.

It was an amazing shot, but downplaying Buff's contribution seems silly. If anything, having Buff as a threat up top to keep the PK honest is a good thing for Laine. Some of the posters here may not have seen Buff's PP acumen in the past, but he's pretty damned good from the point as well.

I'd rather have one threat on the half wall and one on the point to keep the PK guessing, than have Laine shut down and no other strong outlets.

You maybe completely right that I'm downplaying the role and importance of Buff on that PP. I have serious holes in my knowledge that I can freely admit to.

However, you are missing the point completely. Buff did not need to freeze anybody on that play. He only needed to feed a puck to a WIDE OPEN Laine. He chose not to. I would be god***m livid as the coach.

That does not mean that the PP game plan is "Laine rips one". Maybe I explained myself poorly. The game plan should be "If Laine is open, he absolutely rips one", and there should be absolutely nothing unclear about that.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

You maybe completely right that I'm downplaying the role and importance of Buff on that PP. I have serious holes in my knowledge that I can freely admit to.

However, you are missing the point completely. Buff did not need to freeze anybody on that play. He only needed to feed a puck to a WIDE OPEN Laine. He chose not to. I would be god***m livid as the coach.

That does not mean that the PP game plan is "Laine rips one". Maybe I explained myself poorly. The game plan should be "If Laine is open, he absolutely rips one", and there should be absolutely nothing unclear about that.

No, I don't think I am. What if Buff were not a threat from the point? Would anyone have given a second thought to protecting the line from the point to the net? Would the goalie have paused prior to picking up Laine? Would Laine have been wide open if Buff didn't "freeze" the coverage?

It's quite possible that Laine would have scored anyway. It's also more likely that Buff's threat to shoot changed the dynamic of the play, giving Laine an even greater chance of scoring. What I'm disputing here is the notion that Buff did nothing to help that play.

 

[grieves]

No, I don't think I am. What if Buff were not a threat from the point? Would anyone have given a second thought to protecting the line from the point to the net? Would the goalie have paused prior to picking up Laine? Would Laine have been wide open if Buff didn't "freeze" the coverage?

It's quite possible that Laine would have scored anyway. It's also more likely that Buff's threat to shoot changed the dynamic of the play, giving Laine an even greater chance of scoring. What I'm disputing here is the notion that Buff did nothing to help that play.

The Minnesota D had completely collapsed already. Laine was signaling for the pass to Buff and was ready for a one-timer. Buff just sends to puck to the net.

Maybe you are right, but from where I am standing that was absolutely the worse decision out of the two.

EDIT: Otherwise the play proceeded exactly as it should. Some good shenanigans going on on the right side, the D collapses. Pass to the point, and then to Lai... Oh Buff...



To message below:

Ah, yes, we are talking about two different things. I'm talking about the play at 6:16 in the Laine full highlight vid. I have no problems with the Laine goal. That was right on the money. But that play needs to happen whenever available. Because CLING.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I'm talking about Laine's goal. You're obviously discussing Buff's attempt to get a puck to the net on a later PP.

 

[Festinator]

The Minnesota D had completely collapsed already. Laine was signaling for the pass to Buff and was ready for a one-timer. Buff just sends to puck to the net.

Maybe you are right, but from where I am standing that was absolutely the worse decision out of the two.

EDIT: Otherwise the play proceeded exactly as it should. Some good shenanigans going on on the right side, the D collapses. Pass to the point, and then to Lai... Oh Buff...



To message below:

Ah, yes, we are talking about two different things. I'm talking about the play at 6:16 in the Laine full highlight vid. I have no problems with the Laine goal. That was right on the money. But that play needs to happen whenever available. Because CLING.

I'm talking about Laine's goal. You're obviously discussing Buff's attempt to get a puck to the net on a later PP.

I think it is VERY important to look at the type of pass Byfuglien gets, before looking at what Byfuglien does. If the pass is set on a tee for him, he's probably going to blast it, and I don't usually have a problem with that (unless the defense is scrambling and Laine is wide open, in which case, Laine is more accurate and closer to the net so best decision would be to pass to him). But if it's a quicker pass, they obviously mean for him to relay it around to Laine.

Just saying, if the puck is laid out on a plate for him to one time it at an opportune time, even if Laine is open, you can't blame him for shooting. We want to keep defences guessing.


Watching the powerplay again, I Like the options they have. I liked how Wheeler and Lowry could work it down low and open up space to get a pass in to scheifele to one time it from the slot, and they've got Laine and Buff with the big shots. Hopeful for this season if that remains a PP unit, and 2nd unit isn't lacking talent either, but they need to switch Armia for Connor. Honestly have no idea what Armia brings from that spot when Connor is known for scoring from the half wall on the powerplay.

 

[grieves]

I think it is VERY important to look at the type of pass Byfuglien gets, before looking at what Byfuglien does. If the pass is set on a tee for him, he's probably going to blast it, and I don't usually have a problem with that (unless the defense is scrambling and Laine is wide open, in which case, Laine is more accurate and closer to the net so best decision would be to pass to him). But if it's a quicker pass, they obviously mean for him to relay it around to Laine.

Just saying, if the puck is laid out on a plate for him to one time it at an opportune time, even if Laine is open, you can't blame him for shooting. We want to keep defences guessing.


Watching the powerplay again, I Like the options they have. I liked how Wheeler and Lowry could work it down low and open up space to get a pass in to scheifele to one time it from the slot, and they've got Laine and Buff with the big shots. Hopeful for this season if that remains a PP unit, and 2nd unit isn't lacking talent either, but they need to switch Armia for Connor. Honestly have no idea what Armia brings from that spot when Connor is known for scoring from the half wall on the powerplay.

I think you are right about that. In this case he didn't really blast anything. He just sent a snap-shot on net hoping for a rebound. Nothing wrong with that, until you start doing it at the expense of getting bombs from a wide-open Laine. That is not cool.

 

[ps241]

I think it is VERY important to look at the type of pass Byfuglien gets, before looking at what Byfuglien does. If the pass is set on a tee for him, he's probably going to blast it, and I don't usually have a problem with that (unless the defense is scrambling and Laine is wide open, in which case, Laine is more accurate and closer to the net so best decision would be to pass to him). But if it's a quicker pass, they obviously mean for him to relay it around to Laine.

Just saying, if the puck is laid out on a plate for him to one time it at an opportune time, even if Laine is open, you can't blame him for shooting. We want to keep defences guessing.


Watching the powerplay again, I Like the options they have. I liked how Wheeler and Lowry could work it down low and open up space to get a pass in to scheifele to one time it from the slot, and they've got Laine and Buff with the big shots. Hopeful for this season if that remains a PP unit, and 2nd unit isn't lacking talent either, but they need to switch Armia for Connor. Honestly have no idea what Armia brings from that spot when Connor is known for scoring from the half wall on the powerplay.

Agree Armia was terrible on the 2nd PP and I would give Connor a look. I don't blame them for trying Joel but I would keep tinkering in preseason.

 

[Eyeseeing]

That fake shot froze many of the defenders, and probably held the goalie long enough that when Buff teed up a perfect pass to Laine, that the goalie was in motion when Laine shot.

It was an amazing shot, but downplaying Buff's contribution seems silly. If anything, having Buff as a threat up top to keep the PK honest is a good thing for Laine. Some of the posters here may not have seen Buff's PP acumen in the past, but he's pretty damned good from the point as well.

I'd rather have one threat on the half wall and one on the point to keep the PK guessing, than have Laine shut down and no other strong outlets.

Agree 100%
Buff is a premier offensive defenseman in the NHL, not sure how that escapes some.

 

[TannedBum]

Agree Armia was terrible on the 2nd PP and I would give Connor a look. I don't blame them for trying Joel but I would keep tinkering in preseason.

Armia was terrible first two periods, but good in third period. Couple of years with nonexistent PP-time does that. That wasn't the only exhibition game, so Connor will absolutely get PP-time also. I hope they keep trying Joel and give Connor lefthanded spot(Perreault/Ehlers/Enstrom etc).

 

[grieves]

Just 1

So Buff scored seriously one goal on the PP with his blast last season?

Let's keep the defenders guessing but my god let's get a grip here.

And sorry about the whining. I'm just completely disheartened that this same s**t is going on. It's just the first exhibition game tho so maybe I'll relax now.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

So Buff scored seriously one goal on the PP with his blast last season?

Let's keep the defenders guessing but my god let's get a grip here.

And sorry about the whining. I'm just completely disheartened that this same s**t is going on. It's just the first exhibition game tho so maybe I'll relax now.

Go look at his stats over the last 4-5 years on the PP. If you're this upset that Buff will occasionally shoot instead of setting up Laine, it's going to be a very long season for you.

In my opinion, I think it's a good thing we have two dangerous shots on the PP. Buff's no dummy - he'll feed Laine when it's appropriate, and hopefully do it in an intelligent manner as he did on his goal the other night.

 

[ffh]

So Buff scored seriously one goal on the PP with his blast last season?

Let's keep the defenders guessing but my god let's get a grip here.

And sorry about the whining. I'm just completely disheartened that this same s**t is going on.

my guess is if our pp finished the year at 25% and laine only got 1 goal you would be upset. I mean how many times did green or Carlson not pass the puck to ovi when he was open. quite a few I'm guessing. its not a big deal. how many times does laine give the puck away on the pp trying to throw it cross ice and get it picked off and dumped down the ice. that's disheartening too. we all want laine to score lots of goals on the pp but dumping on buff for no reason wont fly.

 

[grieves]

Go look at his stats over the last 4-5 years on the PP. If you're this upset that Buff will occasionally shoot instead of setting up Laine, it's going to be a very long season for you.

In my opinion, I think it's a good thing we have two dangerous shots on the PP. Buff's no dummy - he'll feed Laine when it's appropriate, and hopefully do it in an intelligent manner as he did on his goal the other night.

Except he didn't feed Laine where it was absolutely appropriate, and frankly, by far the better play. This was the trend from last year too.

I also don't think it is smart to equate their shots. Laine has a generational, almost never-before-seen shot. "Two dangerous shots" is an extremely misleading way to put it, although I absolutely agree that Laine cannot be the only threat. I have also stated this on multiple occasions.

And no need for the straw-man. There is nothing wrong with Buff shooting, as I have now said multiple times. But when there is a Laine ripper available with the D scrambling, and you opt not to do that, you have failed to maximize the scoring potential on that play. That does not take away the good plays Buff makes, but it is completely crapping on the maximum potential that the PP has.

 

[grieves]

my guess is if our pp finished the year at 25% and laine only got 1 goal you would be upset. I mean how many times did green or Carlson not pass the puck to ovi when he was open. quite a few I'm guessing. its not a big deal. how many times does laine give the puck away on the pp trying to throw it cross ice and get it picked off and dumped down the ice. that's disheartening too. we all want laine to score lots of goals on the pp but dumping on buff for no reason wont fly.

Nice guess. Now back to reality.

We should also harp on Laine if he is making systematic bad plays, no question. Although last I checked, he was putting the puck in the net too.

 

[Calendal]

Just saying, if the puck is laid out on a plate for him to one time it at an opportune time, even if Laine is open, you can't blame him for shooting. We want to keep defences guessing.

I would say it's wrong framing of the problem to say that we need to keep the defenders guessing. Defenders being uncertain is only relevant when you can make sure that both your options are dangerous enough - otherwise they would typically protect against the higher danger options regardless of which one seems more likely to happen.

To maximize the danger of both scenarios Buff would optimally *always* shoot when defenders cheat against Laine and *always* pass when they don't. Obviously this is more complicated if the defenders don't cheat but the goalie does etc. where the various factors don't line up. Or they just half-cheat..

There's nothing wrong with Buff making 20 consecutive passes to Laine if he's open enough. There's nothing wrong with Buff taking 20 consecutive shots when the defenders clearly cheat. This all requires for Buff to have a good enough shot, of course. (And yes, there are more options than just shoot or pass to Laine, obviously, and those need to be utilized when appropriate)

With Enstrom on the line it does not help to do a fake shot if his shot is not threatening enough to be the higher risk situation. Even if he would frequently take the shot, the defenders would still cheat against Laine.