Confirmed with Link: Wild Signs Marcus Foligno (4 years, $2.875M AAV)

[Dr Jan Itor]

How many of those complaining have actually seen him play more than a couple games?
I always love how fans constantly think they know more than those who work for the damn teams.

This place would be pretty damn boring if we had to wait 82 games to form an opinion on anything.

 

[Ban Hammered]

This shouldn't be news, but teams and GMs make a lot of friggen mistakes. Fletcher's had enough buyouts over the years to verify that.

Some of them are very predictable and identifiable the moment they happen, especially given we've had enough years to know how he works.. Matt Cooke to a 3 year at 35 years old? Mistake the moment it happened. Picking up Jarret Stoll off waivers? Easily identifiable mistake.

The moment he traded for Foligno this mistake was predictable, now that we know the terms it's identifiable. In 2 or 3 years when we need an extra million or two of capspace while Foligno's been passed up by Kunin, Greenway and JEE making 3 million on the 4th line, we're going to be *****ing about this contract non stop.

Just like people were with Brodziak, who was twice as useful as Foligno.

No one has ever said they don't make mistakes. My issue is with the blanket statements you and others are making about how you know how this guy sucks and this contract is terrible and he'll be passed up etc etc etc when you have not seen him play one game for the Wild and I'd bet you've not seen him play more than a handful of games for Buffalo...if any.
You are so sure that guys who have played zero pro games will pass him up...again without any evidence to point to as fact and then make comments about Brodziak being twice as useful...again without backing it up.
Foligno, on a terrible team, put up as many goals as Pominville did. Are Pominville's 20 some assists more worth the 3 million more he makes? I sure as hell don't think so. People also whine constantly about how the Wild lack a physical presence, which is something that Foligno will bring and yet all it is around here is complain complain complain.
Also something to differentiate your other signings there you are complaining about is age. Foligno is 26 and entering his prime, not over it. Yet you seem certain (without evidence) that he can and will amount to nothing here. Just because other moves may not have worked out does not mean this one has no chance to.
Complaining is one thing...but when he has played zero minutes for this team you can not make the claims you are making. Fletcher and Boudreau have faith in the guy and until I SEE otherwise, for the time being that's enough for me.

 

[Wabit]

Completely agree. Not only that, if you take a look at his cap comparables he's not nearly as overpaid as people seem to want to think. This is about the going rate for someone in his situation when it buys 3 UFA years. This is going to pan out similar to Hanzal. People who only look at points will ask why, but some players bring more than just points.

I've watched him play a lot of games. I like his game a lot, but he has a tendency to take games off or disappear (similar to Coyle). My biggest hope for him is he finds the player he was just entering the league (before Buffalo tanked into oblivion). He had a PPG rate end of season callup, and then looked like he'd turn in to a solid middle-6 player after his rookie year (lockout).

I think he'll become a fan favorite pretty quickly in Minny. His physical play, and not being a defensive liability (White) are fun to watch.

 

[Ban Hammered]

This place would be pretty damn boring if we had to wait 82 games to form an opinion on anything.

I'd prefer boring to crazy.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd prefer boring to crazy.

How is it crazy? Not everybody has to bobble-head every move and decision that is made. You can have negative initial reactions to things. I think we signed a marginal guy for a bit to much and twice as long as we should have. I'm not flipping out, but I'm not thrilled about it either.

 

[gphr513]

My first inclination is that it's a little too expensive and a little too lengthy of a contract. I'll give Fletch and BB the benefit of the doubt, and see how he performs on the ice.

 

[Ban Hammered]

How is it crazy? Not everybody has to bobble-head every move and decision that is made. You can have negative initial reactions to things. I think we signed a marginal guy for a bit to much and twice as long as we should have. I'm not flipping out, but I'm not thrilled about it either.

Crazy is what I said above. The absolute belief that he sucks and the contract sucks because reasons.

 

[BagHead]

This place would be pretty damn boring if we had to wait 82 games to form an opinion on anything.

Very true! But I do believe we probably shouldn't judge Foligno either harshly or kindly before he's actually played a game for us. I mean, let's be real here: It's likely that the majority of individuals in this forum have gone to hockeydb or a comparable stats site to form their opinion on him. Even some of the guys looking deeper into his stats like Corsi probably haven't actually done their due diligence by actually watching him play, and nobody at all has seen him play on an NHL team that wasn't the Sabres.

Nobody here has any idea how he'll play in a Wild sweater. Even those who've watched him don't really know, they just know how he did in a Sabres sweater. These are two totally different teams in totally different situations. I highly doubt he's going to light the world on fire, but I also doubt he'll be completely unworthy of his contract. It's a little high (puts him in the upper end of the 3rd liner salaries) but it's not bank breaking.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I'd prefer boring to crazy.

It's not crazy to look at the league as a whole, compare who has been signed to what deal(s) and then evaluate. Not all of us have to step in @#$% to know it stinks. There is nothing about Foligno or his deal to suggest that it was a real good idea. If GMCF ends up being right, cool. Smart money is on the latter and it looks like another questionable move in an off-season of questionable moves to bail himself out of other questionable moves.

If you are cool watching it play out, fine. I prefer to be "crazy", thank you.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Crazy is what I said above. The absolute belief that he sucks and the contract sucks because reasons.

Some might say that absolute belief that an organization that ain't batting 1.000 on personnel moves, deserves 100% benefit of the doubt, because reasons, could also be "crazy".

 

[ThatGuy22]

No one has ever said they don't make mistakes. My issue is with the blanket statements you and others are making about how you know how this guy sucks and this contract is terrible and he'll be passed up etc etc etc when you have not seen him play one game for the Wild and I'd bet you've not seen him play more than a handful of games for Buffalo...if any.
You are so sure that guys who have played zero pro games will pass him up...again without any evidence to point to as fact and then make comments about Brodziak being twice as useful...again without backing it up.
Foligno, on a terrible team, put up as many goals as Pominville did. Are Pominville's 20 some assists more worth the 3 million more he makes? I sure as hell don't think so. People also whine constantly about how the Wild lack a physical presence, which is something that Foligno will bring and yet all it is around here is complain complain complain.
Also something to differentiate your other signings there you are complaining about is age. Foligno is 26 and entering his prime, not over it. Yet you seem certain (without evidence) that he can and will amount to nothing here. Just because other moves may not have worked out does not mean this one has no chance to.
Complaining is one thing...but when he has played zero minutes for this team you can not make the claims you are making. Fletcher and Boudreau have faith in the guy and until I SEE otherwise, for the time being that's enough for me.

I've seen him play plenty of times. I watch an obscene amount of hockey and Buffalo is on nationally more than any team but Chicago and Pittsburgh because they get insane ratings for some reason. I've probably watched 3 dozen or more buffalo games in the past 4 years.

And the problem isn't even with Foligno, he's an above average 4th liner, who probably shouldn't be in the top 9 of a team with playoff aspirations. He has value for a hockey team.

But he's replaceable. And you just can't give those guys term, especially at almost 3 million dollars and especially with the cap situation we've been in and will continue to be in. There is zero reason to lock into a player of Markus Foligno's caliber 4 years from now at 3 million dollars.

It's a mistake. It's a mistake Fletcher has made time and again. Term to 4th liners for too much. And almost without fail, he has to dump those players within two years. Nystrom, Staubitz, Mitchell, Powe, Cooke. Same thing, over and over again. 4th liners of varying degree's of skill level, that have to be dumped.

Forgive me if i'm disheartened our GM can't seem to learn the basic principle of you shouldn't give term to 4th liners, that keeps biting him in the ass.

You're more than welcome to continue to defer to the authority that has had to dump almost every 4th liner he's ever acquired. I'll continue to think it was a terrible decision to put one one the books 4 years from now at 3 million dollars

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Very true! But I do believe we probably shouldn't judge Foligno either harshly or kindly before he's actually played a game for us. I mean, let's be real here: It's likely that the majority of individuals in this forum have gone to hockeydb or a comparable stats site to form their opinion on him. Even some of the guys looking deeper into his stats like Corsi probably haven't actually done their due diligence by actually watching him play, and nobody at all has seen him play on an NHL team that wasn't the Sabres.

Nobody here has any idea how he'll play in a Wild sweater. Even those who've watched him don't really know, they just know how he did in a Sabres sweater. These are two totally different teams in totally different situations. I highly doubt he's going to light the world on fire, but I also doubt he'll be completely unworthy of his contract. It's a little high (puts him in the upper end of the 3rd liner salaries) but it's not bank breaking.

People who judge harshly will either eat crow or be vindicated; just as people judging kindly will do the same. Some people will ride the middle and that's also fair. It's just the nature of having opinions, which is 99% of the purpose of this board.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Some might say that absolute belief that an organization that ain't batting 1.000 on personnel moves, deserves 100% benefit of the doubt, because reasons, could also be "crazy".

Yeah cause that's what I'm doing by saying to actually let him play before dumping all over it....especially when no organization ever has batted 1.000 on personnel.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Also, the don't judge him before he's every played a game for us talk is doesn't hold water. Because why the frack would be locking up a player for 4 years we can't judge.

If you wanted to make a judgement on the player, sign him for a year and see how he does in this sweater. If he excels, lock him up come January 1st.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Yeah cause that's what I'm doing by saying to actually let him play before dumping all over it....especially when no organization ever has batted 1.000 on personnel.

I think it's fair to be a little more critical when this contract mirrors previous mistakes made by our GM.

I defend Fletcher more often than not, and he's an above avg GM in my opinion. But he's got a blind spot for Grinders, and his record shows it.

 

[Goose312]

His hit and term is inline with comparable. Comparables like Clutterbuck, and Martin who's contracts are just as bad and were called as such when they signed. The reaction around here to Clutterbuck's latest deal was laughing at the Islanders.

I'm not going to turn hypocrite when our GM does the exact same thing. Some GMs, even a lot of them, over value these type of extremely replaceable players. That doesn't mean I have to sugar coat my disdain for the deal when our's does it (for the 5th or 6th time).

I ripped those other contracts, i'm sure as hell going to rip this one.

Looking at comparisons of people who signed 3-4 year deals in the 25-26 year old range with comparable production there really aren't many outliers. Clutterbuck and Martin got those deals because that's the going rate, same with Foligno. Same with Korpikoski, same with Kruger, same with Haula who signed a deal for 100k less AAV while giving up 1 less year of UFA coming off a 26 point season with slightly better career points per game ratio but worse advanced stats.

So who's deal should his have been modeled after? In looking at age, RFA status, length, and production I don't see a whole lot of variation to the low side in terms of AAV. The only meaningful outlier I see is Kassian who has never been able to work his way to a top 9 role unlike the players above.

 

[Ban Hammered]

I think it's fair to be a little more critical when this contract mirrors previous mistakes made by our GM.

I defend Fletcher more often than not, and he's an above avg GM in my opinion. But he's got a blind spot for Grinders, and his record shows it.

So he has a soft spot for them. Has his kind of player not been a need for this team? Has what Foligno can bring in terms of skill set not been something fans have screamed for for several years now?

His skill set is something both Fletcher and Boudreau believe has been missing so they pulled the trigger on it.

 

[ThatGuy22]

So he has a soft spot for them. Has his kind of player not been a need for this team? Has what Foligno can bring in terms of skill set not been something fans have screamed for for several years now?

His skill set is something both Fletcher and Boudreau believe has been missing so they pulled the trigger on it.

I don't believe it was a need worth committing 11 million dollars over 4 years.

I would also be flat out shocked if you can find a comment i've ever written that suggests I think the Wild need to get bigger, tougher and grindier.

That they've felt we needed it does not change my opinion one bit that you don't give a player that provides that "skillset" 4 years and 11 million dollars.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

The fact that Foligno will cost 2 additional years and about $7.5 million more than Sam Bennett will cost the Flames is offensive.

 

[nt3005]

Im pretty excited to see some games so we can actually have something to complain about.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Im pretty excited to see some games so we can actually have something to complain about.

*Spoiler Warning* For me it'll likely be Foligno playing on 3rd line...

 

[nt3005]

*Spoiler Warning* For me it'll likely be Foligno playing on 3rd line...

I think Ill probably be more disappointed with other "key" players on the team.

 

[BagHead]

People who judge harshly will either eat crow or be vindicated; just as people judging kindly will do the same. Some people will ride the middle and that's also fair. It's just the nature of having opinions, which is 99% of the purpose of this board.

Well stated.

 

[nt3005]

The fact that Foligno will cost 2 additional years and about $7.5 million more than Sam Bennett will cost the Flames is offensive.

Thats the difference between RFA years and UFA years.

Bennett is looking to cash in on his next contract when he will be in the same age as Foligno. And his contract will be substantially more.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Thats the difference between RFA years and UFA years.

Bennett is looking to cash in on his next contract when he will be in the same age as Foligno. And his contract will be substantially more.

They were both restricted.