Why they traded Hall (article)

[frag2]

Sorry, I thought you could read between the lines. In other words, the leafs have enough firepower that they don't need a Larsson to make the playoffs. We gave away our second best offensive player and for what? Where are our playoffs?!? Last year? The leafs easily made it this year.

Pretty much this. They make the playoffs with or without Larsson anyway

I've come to 'accept' the deal but still don't like it. Return was extremely underwhelming and the team is still scrambling to find replacement LW and RHD

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The thing is, Adam Larsson was not on the trade block at the time of the trade. The Devils were not openly shopping him. That past season prior to the trade, he evolved into our best defenseman, playing on the top pairing with Andy Greene.

He wasn't going to be let go unless we got an offensive gamebreaker forward that the team sorely lacked. No other players except McDavid would of got the deal done. Even Draisaitl at the time probably wouldn't of worked for New Jersey because he just finished his first full season and hadn't yet broke out to the player he is now.

Nice avatar.

 

[harpoon]

Saying that it's the worst trade of the last 15 years or the worst trade in Oilers history is just as bad as those who flame Hall.

I'm trying to be objective here.
Could you mention some of the trades that you think were worse than this one.
I've been an Oiler fan for decades and I'm having trouble bringing any to mind.
I think this trade is legitimately one of the worst trades in Oiler history. No exaggeration required.
I mean I guess the trade for Reinhart could be considered worse, but that was a Chiarelli special too.
The man is clueless and inept. He needs a good firing.

 

[Little Fury]

The Leafs are in the playoffs as much because they had terrific goaltending as they are because of their "fire power". I think we have seen early in this round what happens to them when the goaltending breaks down. If Talbot and the Oilers back-ups played as well as Andersen and McElhenney this year they are probably in the playoffs even though their three top defensemen were playing hurt for much of the year. As a rough number if the Oilers had the same team save percentage as the Leafs they would have given up 45 fewer goals this year.

So I guess you don't need to sell the farm for D men when you can just get good goaltending.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm trying to be objective here.
Could you mention some of the trades that you think were worse than this one.
I've been an Oiler fan for decades and I'm having trouble bringing any to mind.
I think this trade is legitimately one of the worst trades in Oiler history. No exaggeration required.
I mean I guess the trade for Reinhart could be considered worse, but that was a Chiarelli special too.
The man is clueless and inept. He needs a good firing.

He's not the only one. I can't think of anyone who shouldn't be fired at this point.

 

[waterboy65]

TB lightning fan here- Its obvious that Taylor Hall has been the best player in the series thus far. The Bolts need to figure out a way to make Hall less effective and have other Devil players drive the play. As far as the Oilers trade of Hall, I do admit scratching my head wondering for a second as to why Oilers would trade such a talent. But players don't always blossom in every situation. Bolts had the jonathan drouin saga play out for a couple of years and kept waiting for him to blossom. While I still think drouin is a good offensive talent, he was placed into a terrible situation with the Canadiens who tried to turn him into a Center. Many Bolts fans were upset at the time of the trade thinking that an unproven 19 year old juniors defenseman was a poor return for the former #3 pick in the draft.

 

[Little Fury]

When healthy he's a top pairing shut down guy.

Only if he has a good puck mover as a partner.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm trying to be objective here.
Could you mention some of the trades that you think were worse than this one.
I've been an Oiler fan for decades and I'm having trouble bringing any to mind.
I think this trade is legitimately one of the worst trades in Oiler history. No exaggeration required.
I mean I guess the trade for Reinhart could be considered worse, but that was a Chiarelli special too.
The man is clueless and inept. He needs a good firing.

They traded the best player of all time in his prime for one. They traded arguably a top 10 player of all time in his prime, that's two.
I don't think it's debatable that the Reinhart trade is worse, that is legitimately one of the trades in NHL history so IMO, that's three.

Yes, Chia needs to be fired. No argument from me on that front. First and foremost, I prefer that the owner sell the team to an owner that will hire the best hockey people but since that isn't happening, I'd settle for a Chia firing.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Only if he has a good puck mover as a partner.

Fair point.

 

[MaxR11]

IMO Larsson could really take another step up in his game if he improved his speed a touch and got back some offensive confidence from his days in the SHL. If not he will just be a solid shut down guy.



Larsson had a damn good season 2 seasons ago, Hall did not have a very good one 2 seasons ago. I maintain that Hall was headed in the wrong direction when he was traded and that he was an issue in the room. What Hall is now and was for a couple of seasons 4ish years ago is not a guy that you trade for Larsson, however we weren't trading that player at that point, we were trading the potential of that player. If Hall were held in as high of a regard as many here hold him in he would've fetched more from another team, it really is as simple as that IMO. If Larsson can rebound and have at least as good of a season next year as he did in his first season here it will at least look like a trade that cost a ton to fill a hole but a massive hole filled nonetheless. It kind of sucks that we haven't gotten more offense out of Larsson but that kind of seems par for the coarse with our coaching staff.

yup, people are doing revisionist history now that hall is doing very well or at least using this season to push their narratives. they conveniently forget that he was not good last year (shero even said hall was a 30 out of 100 for the devs last year). people forget he was a good point producer here that had a lot of flaws on and off ice that hurt the team... or if not hurt it, certainly was any big positive. he was expendable the way he was and played here. no doubt about it.

people forget larsson was definitley a more positive contributor to his team than hall was for his team last year. some posters are just too wishy washy and their opinions are just based on the immediate rather than the entire picture of things.

there was a great segment this morning on tsn 1260 with dusty and rishaug talking about the hall trade. it is very level and fair. it heaps praise on hall but also question whether hall would have been that good here and that he likely needed the trade to wake him up. it's unfortunate. i will post it when they put it up on their site.

 

[Little Fury]

yup, people are doing revisionist history now that hall is doing very well or at least using this season to push their narratives. they conveniently forget that he was not good last year (shero even said hall was a 30 out of 100 for the devs last year). people forget he was a good point producer here that had a lot of flaws on and off ice that hurt the team... or if not hurt it, certainly was any big positive. he was expendable the way he was and played here. no doubt about it.

How does it feel to know you've been pushing this nonsense for post after post, page after page, thread after thread and you still can't change the facts that the Oilers were a better team with Hall on the ice than without him?

people forget larsson was definitley a more positive contributor to his team than hall was for his team last year. some posters are just too wishy washy and their opinions are just based on the immediate rather than the entire picture of things.

Hall in a off year was better and more important to his team than Larsson, who wasn't even the best Oilers d-man last year.

there was a great segment this morning on tsn 1260 with dusty and rishaug talking about the hall trade. it is very level and fair. it heaps praise on hall but also question whether hall would have been that good here and that he likely needed the trade to wake him up. it's unfortunate. i will post it when they put it up on their site.

We wouldn't even have needed Hall to be this year's Hall. Regular Oilers Hall was a great player as he was. All he needed to get to the next level was decent coaching and support from the org and, of course, better players around him.

 

[rboomercat90]

Do people actually watch Larsson play or do they just look at the goals/assists column?

Clearly just the goals/assists column. There isn’t even a need to debate this.

 

[MaxR11]

I'm trying to be objective here.
Could you mention some of the trades that you think were worse than this one.
I've been an Oiler fan for decades and I'm having trouble bringing any to mind.
I think this trade is legitimately one of the worst trades in Oiler history. No exaggeration required.
I mean I guess the trade for Reinhart could be considered worse, but that was a Chiarelli special too.
The man is clueless and inept. He needs a good firing.

the hall trade was a good trade when it happened. it was a good trade last year. some of you are just over reacting because of one year. AND conveniently forget the fact that hall was only at best a slight positive to the oilers when here ( i argue he was an overall negative factor based on on ice and off ice things). he was NOT trending to be the player he is now THIS year. the trade woke him up and gave him the kick in the butt he needed. you almost certainly would not see this level of hall if he stayed in edmonton. that's the paradox here. YOU DO NOT GET THIS YEAR'S HALL IF HE STAYED IN EDMONTON! not sure why this is so difficult to get.

 

[MaxR11]

How does it feel to know you've been pushing this nonsense for post after post, page after page, thread after thread and you still can't change the facts that the Oilers were a better team with Hall on the ice than without him?

Hall in a off year was better and more important to his team than Larsson, who wasn't even the best Oilers d-man last year.



We wouldn't even have needed Hall to be this year's Hall. Regular Oilers Hall was a great player as he was. All he needed to get to the next level was decent coaching and support from the org and, of course, better players around him.

well, you're entitled to use your advanced stats to lead you to wrong conclusions. if you think hall was better than larsson last year it proves how stupid advanced stats are and how completely clueless you are.

 

[McGoMcD]

How does it feel to know you've been pushing this nonsense for post after post, page after page, thread after thread and you still can't change the facts that the Oilers were a better team with Hall on the ice than without him?

Hall in a off year was better and more important to his team than Larsson, who wasn't even the best Oilers d-man last year.



We wouldn't even have needed Hall to be this year's Hall. Regular Oilers Hall was a great player as he was. All he needed to get to the next level was decent coaching and support from the org and, of course, better players around him.

Yes, this exactly. I like I we/I get accused of pushing a narrative. Yet it is the anti Hall people that keep pushing stuff that isn't backed up at all. That he wasn't good here, that he needed a change. That for some reason we couldn't get as much out of him as NJ (if true I then ask why?). That he had locker room issues.... on and on.

He was a star player here and in NJ. the trade was horrible for day 1. Clearly Chia just wanted to get the team he wanted to together quickly. He had Lucic coming in and wanted to clear up the top LW spot for him. He shot gunned a traded for the type of player he likes and over payed to do it.

That is just the only narrative that really makes sense. but, keep accusing us of pushing some narrative.

 

[McGoMcD]

well, you're entitled to use your advanced stats to lead you to wrong conclusions. if you think hall was better than larsson last year it proves how stupid advanced stats are and how completely clueless you are.

Oh god. Larsson was at his best last year and Hall at his worst, and maybe it was a tie. I still think Hall was better. Reality is Hall has way more upside that Larsson, had at the time of the trade and always will.

I like your logic though, the oilers were good last year and Devils bad there fore Larsson must have been better, screw advanced stats cause that logic is sound....... ok sure.

For all we know if we don't make that trade Hall is a beast last year wanting to get into the playoffs. For all we know he then lights it up in the playoffs and we end up in the cup finals. We really have no idea.

 

[Little Fury]

well, you're entitled to use your advanced stats to lead you to wrong conclusions.

The numbers don't lie. You do, the numbers don't.

if you think hall was better than larsson last year it proves how stupid advanced stats are and how completely clueless you are

Hall is the better player than Larsson. This year, last year and every year before that.

Larsson played on a team that was lights out and had Connor McDavid. Hall was playing with nobodies, had a down season and was still the Devils' best player.

Look, I know some people wanted more production from Hall, but it’s clear that he was still a force for the New Jersey Devils. The Devils consistently had more chances and shots when Hall was on the ice. He created goals and scoring chances for those around him better than anyone on the team.

Some people will look at things like the injuries and Hall’s +/- and try to say he wasn’t as good as advertised. Don’t listen to those people. Hall was easily the Devil’s best player all year-long. I hate the “who won the trade?” argument that happens on Twitter over the Hall/Larsson trade, but I think it’s safe to say the Devils made off pretty well.

Everything considering, I think a season grade of A is more than acceptable. Hall was a force for the New Jersey Devils pretty much every night. He made his teammates better, and the team was much better with him on the ice than off. He was a bright spot on a very bad Devils team, and will continue to lead them for future.

link

 

[bone]

Agree to disagree, Life happens and it takes months to feel somewhat normal after that, especially since it was unexpected but from going through the same thing I think getting back on the ice or back to work in whatever sense ASAP would of shown something.

I could understand your perspective even a little if they were in the thick of a tight playoff race.

But when Lars Sr. passed away the Oilers were 22-24-3 and more than 10 points out of a playoff spot. His obligations were certainly multiplied understanding that it happened while his dad was visiting. So he's dealing with the loss as well as the logistics of trying to get his deceased father back home.

By the time he likely had that under control, and if he had any thought of rushing back, the team was in the middle of a six game losing streak eliminating them from reasonable playoff contention. At this point the only reasonable course of action by the team is to let him deal with it at his own pace as rushing back wasn't going to change the teams long term fortunes anyways.

Criticize his game all you want, but I think the Oilers handled this correctly and respectfully (for a change).

 

[bone]

They traded the best player of all time in his prime for one. They traded arguably a top 10 player of all time in his prime, that's two.
I don't think it's debatable that the Reinhart trade is worse, that is legitimately one of the trades in NHL history so IMO, that's three.

Yes, Chia needs to be fired. No argument from me on that front. First and foremost, I prefer that the owner sell the team to an owner that will hire the best hockey people but since that isn't happening, I'd settle for a Chia firing.

Oilers love bad trades. Fun fact.

Only 12 Hart trophy winners have accomplished it on their second team (excluding folded teams). 8 of which since the 50s and 7 since Esposito.

If Hall actually wins the Hart trophy he'll be the 13th all time to do so, 8th since Esposito. But the real kicker here is that if it happens he will be 4th all time in games played for his original team before being traded behind only Mark Messier, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Thornton.

Hall winning the Hart would be such an Oiler thing, it's not even funny.

Oh yeah in each of those top 3 cases, that Hart trophy was won during the year of the trade. Hall will have at least waited one season.

 

[MaxR11]

Oh god. Larsson was at his best last year and Hall at his worst, and maybe it was a tie. I still think Hall was better. Reality is Hall has way more upside that Larsson, had at the time of the trade and always will.

I like your logic though, the oilers were good last year and Devils bad there fore Larsson must have been better, screw advanced stats cause that logic is sound....... ok sure.

For all we know if we don't make that trade Hall is a beast last year wanting to get into the playoffs. For all we know he then lights it up in the playoffs and we end up in the cup finals. We really have no idea.

listen to dusty and rishaug's morning mandate... it's a fair evaluation of the trade and basically says some things i have been talking about for a while....
-would he have developed to this year nj hall in edm?
-the trade made him who he became...
-his game has definitely matured this year
-hall's value was low when traded.

listen from 1:00 to about 5:00

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1...ick-would-depend-on-returning-asset-1.1059517

 

[McGoMcD]

listen to dusty and rishaug's morning mandate... it's a fair evaluation of the trade and basically says some things i have been talking about for a while....
-would he have developed to this year nj hall in edm?
-the trade made him who he became...
-his game has definitely matured this year
-hall's value was low when traded.

listen from 1:00 to about 5:00

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1...ick-would-depend-on-returning-asset-1.1059517

Again though, so why wouldn't he have matured here? What is wrong with this origization then?

Any way, sure, I just don't buy it. He was 24 when traded, ya it's a shocker he got more well rounded and turned into a better player. It would have happened here too.

If his value was at a low, then you don't trade him. There is just no getting around how horrible this trade was.

Also it is all just at odds with the numbers. Hall was very good here, people like yourselves just keep ignoring that fact.

 

[Little Fury]

listen to dusty and rishaug's morning mandate... it's a fair evaluation of the trade and basically says some things i have been talking about for a while....
-would he have developed to this year nj hall in edm?
-the trade made him who he became...
-his game has definitely matured this year
-hall's value was low when traded.

listen from 1:00 to about 5:00

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1...ick-would-depend-on-returning-asset-1.1059517

-would he have developed to this year nj hall in edm? Why wouldn't he have? At the same time: why would he have to be that guy when he'd be *just* the second best player on the team?
-the trade made him who he became... bullcrap. This isn't even Hall's best season!
-his game has definitely matured this year Weird, Hall doesn't think so.
-hall's value was low when traded. Pretty dumb to trade a guy when his value is lowest hey?

 

[Little Fury]

Again though, so why wouldn't he have matured here? What is wrong with this origization then?

Any way, sure, I just don't buy it. He was 24 when traded, ya it's a shocker he got more well rounded and turned into a better player. It would have happened here too.

I wonder what the Venn diagram between people who think Hall wouldn't have improved here and those who think guys like Nurse or Larsson still have plenty of runway to develop looks like...

 

[McGoMcD]

I wonder what the Venn diagram between people who think Hall wouldn't have improved here and those who think guys like Nurse or Larsson still have plenty of runway to develop looks like...

LOL, good point. Two circles on top of each other would be my guess.

The irony. The same people that argue Larsson is still going to develop and become a stud, say Hall was inevitably on a downward spiral here.

 

[McAsuno]

well, you're entitled to use your advanced stats to lead you to wrong conclusions. if you think hall was better than larsson last year it proves how stupid advanced stats are and how completely clueless you are.

You mean the same advanced stats that clearly shows whenever Hall was on the ice, the Oilers played massively better compared when he's off? Its cute you're going to try to debunk evidence concerning Hall, but tried to use Laraque's BS story, and still defend his story. Somebody obviously needs a life when it comes to hating a player. I hate Ryan Kesler with a passion, but even I wouldn't go this far to sit on my computer all day slagging him like you with Hall. Get yourself an actual hobby, bud.