Why they traded Hall (article)

[McGoMcD]

are you serious?? first off, i'm not even sure hall knew he was going to be traded the first time. hall probably just didn't get it the first time around, but when the next gm threatens to trade him that becomes a big shocker and that's what it takes to get someone to really reevaluate themselves. it's almost as if you're some sort of robot who has no clue how human beings work. it's not rocket science here buddy. i can't believe you to be this stuck on simple logistics. it must be hall love blinding you.

So why can't our GM be the guy who trades for some one like this and allows them to become the super star they could be? Why is it our GM that is always trading guys like this and not trading for them? Why didn't he trade Hall for another player like this then. Why didn't he look for the same value in return? Doesn't matter how many times you spin the Hall was this or that here, it just doesn't add up. Our GM lost the trade bad. Thats the only thing that matters in the end. He also has a history of losing trades bad..... We should get Shero then, the guy who wins these types of deals, not loses them.

 

[MaxR11]

So why can't our GM be the guy who trades for some one like this and allows them to become the super star they could be? Why is it our GM that is always trading guys like this and not trading for them? Why didn't he trade Hall for another player like this then. Why didn't he look for the same value in return? Doesn't matter how many times you spin the Hall was this or that here, it just doesn't add up. Our GM lost the trade bad. Thats the only thing that matters in the end. He also has a history of losing trades bad..... We should get Shero then, the guy who wins these types of deals, not loses them.

i'm not defending chia. i have said many times he may not be the right gm for us. i'm just saying hall was not nearly as good as you think he was here and was not going to figure it out here. quit extrapolating what you think i'm trying to say. chia may suck, but hall also was not that good here and in my opinion an negative overall presence for the oil. or at best a mildly positive one with many flaws that might have hurt the team almost as much as he helped it. could a better gm fetched a better deal with smarts and better patience and timing? sure that's definitely possible. but it dosent change the fact hall needed to leave edmonton.

 

[bone]

i'm not defending chia. i have said many times he may not be the right gm for us. i'm just saying hall was not nearly as good as you think he was here and was not going to figure it out here. quit extrapolating what you think i'm trying to say. chia may suck, but hall also was not that good here and in my opinion an negative overall presence for the oil. or at best a mildly positive one with many flaws that might have hurt the team almost as much as he helped it. could a better gm fetched a better deal with smarts and better patience and timing? sure that's definitely possible. but it dosent change the fact hall needed to leave edmonton.

Quick question for you here. It appears about 90% of your post history is about Taylor Hall. At what point do we just move on? Obviously Hall pissed you off at some point and you created your account to verbalize it, but constantly beating this drum, does it actually make you happier.

Do you actually think the people in this thread will change their opinion simply by hearing hyperbole like: Shero said "I'm trading your ass unless you shape up, boy" before proceeding to verbally berate him for 4 hours.

Come on. Maybe it's time to move on from the Hall bash. Understand people are going to have their little what if moments as he has found some success for now, but people who liked him before aren't going to change their mind just as you will not change your mind.

 

[MaxR11]

Here's what actually happened:



So no, Shero did not "threaten to trade Hall" as was claimed.


.

fair enough, that quote is not a threat. but i know i saw another article where it was worded much differently and seemed much more like a threat.

 

[McGoMcD]

i'm not defending chia. i have said many times he may not be the right gm for us. i'm just saying hall was not nearly as good as you think he was here and was not going to figure it out here. quit extrapolating what you think i'm trying to say. chia may suck, but hall also was not that good here and in my opinion an negative overall presence for the oil. or at best a mildly positive one with many flaws that might have hurt the team almost as much as he helped it. could a better gm fetched a better deal with smarts and better patience and timing? sure that's definitely possible. but it dosent change the fact hall needed to leave edmonton.

Ok, well we don't disagree on that much. Personally I don't know truthfully if he needed to go, or he was just fine here. But one way or the other Chia needed to make a better deal. As a GM you only make a few deals that big in your life, you can't mess them up. He has done that twice, once with Hall and once with Seguin. Thats too much.

 

[MaxR11]

Quick question for you here. It appears about 90% of your post history is about Taylor Hall. At what point do we just move on? Obviously Hall pissed you off at some point and you created your account to verbalize it, but constantly beating this drum, does it actually make you happier.

Do you actually think the people in this thread will change their opinion simply by hearing hyperbole like: Shero said "I'm trading your ass unless you shape up, boy" before proceeding to verbally berate him for 4 hours.

Come on. Maybe it's time to move on from the Hall bash. Understand people are going to have their little what if moments as he has found some success for now, but people who liked him before aren't going to change their mind just as you will not change your mind.

he pissed me off with his play with the oilers. people want to argue that fact so i reply. i'm not of the opinion hall was good here. i never met the guy. noone close to me has ever met the guy. i have no personal vendetta against him. mainly just didn't like him as an oiler. and sure this is on me, but it frustrates me when people overrate his play here and ignore his flaws.

 

[bone]

he pissed me off with his play with the oilers. people want to argue that fact so i reply. i'm not of the opinion hall was good here. i never met the guy. noone close to me has ever met the guy. i have no personal vendetta against him. mainly just didn't like him as an oiler. and sure this is on me, but it frustrates me when people overrate his play here and ignore his flaws.

I understand that and don't begrudge you that opinion. I'm just saying that at what point do you shut down that anger and just move on understanding that you can't change people's perception of the past.

This trade will forever be divisive between fans and those firmly on either side will never yield. The most you'll get for the moderate person in this is that Chiarelli needed to get more than he got, but perhaps Hall had to go and that doesn't mean Larsson sucks, just that he's not full value for Hall.

I hate a lot of things current and past Oilers have done, but I'd rather look forward to see what will come even though that comes with great fear due to lack of trust in the management team.

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

I understand that and don't begrudge you that opinion. I'm just saying that at what point do you shut down that anger and just move on understanding that you can't change people's perception of the past.

This trade will forever be divisive between fans and those firmly on either side will never yield. The most you'll get for the moderate person in this is that Chiarelli needed to get more than he got, but perhaps Hall had to go and that doesn't mean Larsson sucks, just that he's not full value for Hall.

I hate a lot of things current and past Oilers have done, but I'd rather look forward to see what will come even though that comes with great fear due to lack of trust in the management team.

Sure Chia probably should have gotten more, But considering the circumstances I'd say he made out not bad. More so if you take your fingers out of your ears and accept that some of the things swirling around the player have at least some merit. the extra 5 or ten percent top up doesn't equate to a first round pick so the extra cash was really the break even. I dunno about HK but seeing little fury cry and reading soundwaves never ending hyperbole about how our team is ruined by this trade is extra amusing.

For my part, I've tuned my crystal ball to the coaching channel this off season, Oh the suspense, the drama...but when this thread floats to the top it's like the wet paint you know you shouldn't touch. LOL

 

[Dashh]

And i'm not a Hall nuthugger in the slighest, but man oh man that was a stupid trade. Dude IS legit the team in NJ. Cot Damn Chia. Sorry to revisit this thread but it's insane that Chia doesn't take more heat for it.

 

[Raoul Duke]

because they took him to dinner and threatened to trade him for the second time in two seasons, because he had experienced a life changing event getting traded the first time, that's what a trade does. it forces re-evaluation and maybe some growth. The fact you can't understand this tells me you gotta be a millennial. Not everything is hugs and participation ribbons

Watch those caps!!
You’re slipping.

 

[Raoul Duke]

HK97 made another account to back himself up I see ^

It’s kind of cute, isn’t it?

 

[nabob]

Ok, well we don't disagree on that much. Personally I don't know truthfully if he needed to go, or he was just fine here. But one way or the other Chia needed to make a better deal. As a GM you only make a few deals that big in your life, you can't mess them up. He has done that twice, once with Hall and once with Seguin. Thats too much.

There's a saying that anytime you trade the best player in a deal that you lose the deal. In Boston he was obviously handcuffed by upper management. We saw what Eberle's value was, there's a chance he may have even cleared waivers. Not trading Nuge was a good move, that left Hall. Opposing GMs knew this. Everyone wishes we could have gotten more for Hall, especially with how he is playing since changing his attitude this season.

 

[MoontoScott]

ho** cr**, how many times does it have to be explained to you. the trade helped shocked him intolooking in the mirror for real. shero telling him he needs to be a better player on ice and better person off of it. telling him he was a sh** 30% player when hall thought he was 50% last yar. 4 hour tongue lashing from hynes and shero. the trade. shero giving hall the ultimatum saying i can trade you now or you can get your sh** together next yer. i think that helped. the thought of getting traded again right away was likely the biggest slap in the face that made him say "maybe it is me."

Is there any real evidence that these guys in Jersey gave it to Hall both barrels? Was this reported in the New Jersey media or other venues? I keep wondering what this "be a better person off the ice stuff" supposedly was?

I am not saying that these things didn't happen but where are these stories originating?

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

Is there any real evidence that these guys in Jersey gave it to Hall both barrels? Was this reported in the New Jersey media or other venues? I keep wondering what this "be a better person off the ice stuff" supposedly was?

I am not saying that these things didn't happen but where are these stories originating?

sportsnet, the globe and mail as well as several jersey papers carried the story.

 

[MoontoScott]

sportsnet, the globe and mail as well as several jersey papers carried the story.

Does somebody have a link? Thanks.

 

[MaxR11]

Is there any real evidence that these guys in Jersey gave it to Hall both barrels? Was this reported in the New Jersey media or other venues? I keep wondering what this "be a better person off the ice stuff" supposedly was?

I am not saying that these things didn't happen but where are these stories originating?

there are a variety of stories about hall some of which you can find somewhere in the thread. my original first post may have something about it. you know it's pretty harsh and somewhat serious when someone tells you to be a better person. i doubt a gm would say this to his best offensive player if it didn't hurt the team in some way.

 

[MoontoScott]

there are a variety of stories about hall some of which you can find somewhere in the thread. my original first post may have something about it. you know it's pretty harsh and somewhat serious when someone tells you to be a better person. i doubt a gm would say this to his best offensive player if it didn't hurt the team in some way.

Well, I am going to assume for a moment that there were similar issues while he was an Oiler but here is my next question.

Since this "grow up" talk obviously worked so well in Jersey then why was there no one in the Oiler organization who could have had the same effect on the situation while he was in Edmonton? With so many legends and supposed hockey management talent hanging around wasn't there someone who could get it done? I keep asking myself "what does the dirty dozen do all season?"

 

[hoove17]

Does somebody have a link? Thanks.

Taylor Hall Raises the Bar for Himself, Devils in MVP-Caliber Season

 

[MaxR11]

i said it before but i would bet the oilers DID have talks with him and it just did not get through to him. sometimes it can take a trade (a shock and a blow to the ego), followed by a cr@p year in NJ (first year) and then having the new gm ask you if you'd like to be traded and continue on with a 4 hour talk. you know how young people can be... sometimes it takes several times steppig on the rake to finally get it.

i wouldn't be surprised if the organization wanted to trade hall a year or two or more earlier but i bet katz would not allow it. i think the oil gave hall too much free reign in his fuirst couple of years and that was not good for his development as a person and player. so the organization definitely needs to share blame.

 

[MoontoScott]

i said it before but i would bet the oilers DID have talks with him and it just did not get through to him. sometimes it can take a trade (a shock and a blow to the ego), followed by a cr@p year in NJ (first year) and then having the new gm ask you if you'd like to be traded and continue on with a 4 hour talk. you know how young people can be... sometimes it takes several times steppig on the rake to finally get it.

i wouldn't be surprised if the organization wanted to trade hall a year or two or more earlier but i bet katz would not allow it. i think the oil gave hall too much free reign in his fuirst couple of years and that was not good for his development as a person and player. so the organization definitely needs to share blame.

I get the sense from the article that it was a serious talk but I don't see it as him being told to shape up or he would be gone within a year. It does add some credence however to the suggestions that there were some serious issues in his years with the Oilers. I wonder if we had taken Seguin instead how that would have worked out?

Clearly, we are blessed with the knowledge that our current superstar Mc-D is mature beyond his years, as Gretzky was.

 

[MoontoScott]

To be sure, listening to Connor is reassuring, some parents out there are still doing a great job raising their kids.

I certainly can commiserate with Oiler management and other clubs about some of the other personalities they have had to deal with. My own experience in supervising young people for decades is that sometimes a shock is necessary in order for the person to understand that the "blame game" doesn't work for you.

Unfortunately we live in a society where blaming the police, blaming your parents, teachers, mailman, bus driver etc. is excellent fodder for the "everybody done 'em wrong" talk show hosts. Having said that, I am glad that Taylor has turned it around and has now matured. He won't have to book a date with Dr. Phil.

 

[booyakasha]

Taylor Hall Raises the Bar for Himself, Devils in MVP-Caliber Season

This article makes the trade look even worse.
Only shows how wounded Hall was from being traded...how much he wanted to be an Oiler.

Shero, basically said, "I'll give you a year to mourn, then it's time to accept your place as a Devil"

 

[CupofOil]

So why can't our GM be the guy who trades for some one like this and allows them to become the super star they could be? Why is it our GM that is always trading guys like this and not trading for them? Why didn't he trade Hall for another player like this then. Why didn't he look for the same value in return? Doesn't matter how many times you spin the Hall was this or that here, it just doesn't add up. Our GM lost the trade bad. Thats the only thing that matters in the end. He also has a history of losing trades bad..... We should get Shero then, the guy who wins these types of deals, not loses them.

So you're basing this on this season only, right? You said this less than a year ago....

I said this at the time and will say again, but the deal was a win for 3 reason. Larsson is younger, more durable, and on a better contract. I laugh at those who compare them player for player. First they are so different and it really depends on your needs. For what it is worth I think they are actually pretty closer. That said we won on age, money, and durability. Look at last year, Larsson played 82 and Hall....60 some. That will be their careers.

 

[McGoMcD]

Well, I am going to assume for a moment that there were similar issues while he was an Oiler but here is my next question.

Since this "grow up" talk obviously worked so well in Jersey then why was there no one in the Oiler organization who could have had the same effect on the situation while he was in Edmonton? With so many legends and supposed hockey management talent hanging around wasn't there someone who could get it done? I keep asking myself "what does the dirty dozen do all season?"

I made this exact point. The answer doesn't make any sense, something like he had to be traded to shake him up........

 

[McGoMcD]

So you're basing this on this season only, right? You said this less than a year ago....

LOL, first I just find it funny when people take the time to go all the way back to find some one else post. To quote J.M. Keynes "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

I am a fan, I wanted to see it as a win. It did appear as a win last year. However, if you think about it long enough, and this year has forced me to. It was not. All the hockey writers who said it was a bad deal that the time were correct. I was wrong.