Why isn't Nico Hischier being given any spotlight?

[Scorcho]

We're still hung over from last year's Calder race. Got all the arguing out of our systems, too emotionally exhausted to start Nico vs Nolan up.

is nico/nolan a real question at this point?

I mean, maybe in a few years, but now?

 

[42]

I'll just leave this here...

Wow. That should shut up most of the naysayers.

 

[Scorcho]

Stefan, Johnson, Yakupov, Di Pietro, Philipps, arguably RNH. Right now he is on pace for similar rookies totals the likes of Mckinnon, Hall and Tavares had...

he's literally keeping pace with Matthews rookie season after 27 games

 

[haak84]

This past draft just doesn't have the same allure as the last few previous where it's been all the rage of "McDavid vs Eichel," "Matthews vs Laine," "McDavid vs Matthews," "Eichel vs Matthews," "Edmonton vs Toronto," "Toronto vs Winnipeg" etc, etc. I can see Hischier being a Kopitar-type guy for NJ in the future but they just aren't seen as a marquee franchise.

Winnipeg is a marquee franchise now? LOL. You guys are a hoot.

So thats MacKinnon, Tavaras, Laine, Eichel and Stamkos who were all more hyped picks on franchises that no one cares about.

 

[BruinLVGA]

And Nico's played 26 games!

Hischier's great. The premise of this thread is "why isn't Hischier getting even more attention than the effusive praise he's already getting." Hard to justify that non-NJD fans here are underappreciating him.

27. Got two points in the 27th game, including a top level assist for the gwg.
Here's what his coach had to say about that assist: "To him it's just a pass. To everyone else it's an elite play," Devils coach John Hynes said of Hischier. "That's the difference when you have an elite hockey mind compared to everyone else."

 

[TheDoldrums]

His class is the class of '17, is it not? If you talk about his "class", that's the natural & only interpretation.
Me comparing his rookie season so far to Matthews rookie season has no impact on what his "class" is.

Good lord, you are such a treat to talk to. Rookie class is a pretty common phrase. Class does not have to always mean they year they were drafted.

"Keller (5-10, 168) might be the fastest skater of the 2017-18 rookie class."

Top 12 rookies to watch this season

"Our readers and my fellow pundits seem particularly fascinated with the 2017-18 rookie class."

Top 10 Calder Trophy candidates for 2017-18 | The Hockey News

"Statistically Speaking: The rest of the NHL rookie class"

Statistically Speaking: The rest of the NHL rookie class - Article - TSN

 

[luki here]

Winnipeg is a marquee franchise now? LOL. You guys are a hoot.

So thats MacKinnon, Tavaras, Laine, Eichel and Stamkos who were all more hyped picks on franchises that no one cares about.

A table without labeled entries is about as useful as nipples on breastplate.

 

[haak84]

It's about the rankings and those are franchise values. The Devils are doing fine and better than most want to give them credit for.

 

[CanCHI]

Well, that's a way different thing than what you wrote first.

Anyways... How about this:
- Hischier's is tied for 4th overall in production. The three ahead of him are 20, 20, 19... And the guy who is tied with him is 23 (and McAvoy, a mega stud of a D, is 19). Hischier is 18.
- Hischier hasn't had yet that string of puck luck - he's been very unlucky -, he is shooting at 8.5%. Those ahead of him, had. Kerfoot at 28%? Boeser at nearly 20?
- PP: Hischier is used on a crappy 2nd PP unit, that gets the crumbs, as in 25-35 seconds, while the 1st unit (with Hall, Bratt and Butcher) gets most of it (and because of that, Bratt has 8 PP points, Butcher has 10). Hischier? 4.
How about those other rookies who have a better/same production? 8 points (Keller), 9 (Barzal), 10 (Kerfoot), 11 (Boeser).
Look now at 5vs5 points: Barzal 17, Hischier 16, Keller 15, Boeser 14, Kerfoot 10.

You know what all this tells me? That the difference between Hischier's production and the other top rookies is only a) everyone but Hischier getting premier PP time and b) Hischier having significant less puck luck (see very low shooting %).
It doesn't tell me that the others are significantly better. Not at all. Then factor in the age difference and Hischier has been nothing but incredibly good.

So an NHL coach who has the 1st overall pick who according to this thread is one of the best rookies ever doesn't have him on the 1st PP, instead he has a 6th round nobody?

And you don't find this strange at all? You would think with how good Hischer was this would be unacceptable.

 

[Whaleafs]

Winnipeg is a marquee franchise now? LOL. You guys are a hoot.

So thats MacKinnon, Tavaras, Laine, Eichel and Stamkos who were all more hyped picks on franchises that no one cares about.

This isn't brain surgery. Hype follows the lead of the Canadian media.

Winnipeg - Canadian
MacKinnon - Canadian
Tavaras - Canadian (Toronto)
Laine - Would have gone to 1 of 2 Canadian teams
Eichel - (Small) chance of going to Edmonton
Stamkos - Canadian (Toronto)

New Jersey Devils - 4th last in league average attendance last year:

List of National Hockey League attendance figures - Wikipedia

New Jersey Devils - 21st in franchise value mid last season:

https://www.surepayroll.com/resources/blog/the-most-valuable-nhl-teams

I think you need this.

 

[HBK27]

So an NHL coach who has the 1st overall pick who according to this thread is one of the best rookies ever doesn't have him on the 1st PP, instead he has a 6th round nobody?

And you don't find this strange at all? You would think with how good Hischer was this would be unacceptable.

Literally no one is saying he's one of the best rookies ever or that Bratt is a nobody.

The poster had a well reasoned, fact-based argument and THIS is what you come back with??? That's why you're a troll.

 

[Da McBomb]

Haven't read this whole thread... but does the fact that he plays for New Jersey, which is not necessarily a hockey hotbed, have anything to do with it?

 

[Clode]

Name a less impressive first overall since Daigle then other than Hisher

Yakupov, Stefan, Johnson I'm sure there's a few more

 

[CanCHI]

Literally no one is saying he's one of the best rookies ever or that Bratt is a nobody.

The poster had a well reasoned, fact-based argument and THIS is what you come back with??? That's why you're a troll.

Dude just stop. Read some of the posts in this thread about Nico. At one point we were arguing intangibles. As a Hawks fan I understand once you start talking about back checking and defensive plays bumping up a players status you know you are reaching.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Good lord, you are such a treat to talk to. Rookie class is a pretty common phrase. Class does not have t

Good lord, you are such a treat to talk to. Rookie class is a pretty common phrase. Class does not have to always mean they year they were drafted.

"Keller (5-10, 168) might be the fastest skater of the 2017-18 rookie class."

Top 12 rookies to watch this season

"Our readers and my fellow pundits seem particularly fascinated with the 2017-18 rookie class."

Top 10 Calder Trophy candidates for 2017-18 | The Hockey News

"Statistically Speaking: The rest of the NHL rookie class"

Statistically Speaking: The rest of the NHL rookie class - Article - TSN

To me "his own class" = his draft class.

 

[CanCHI]

Yakupov, Stefan, Johnson I'm sure there's a few more

No Yak had 17 goals in 48 games rookie year including 11 in one month of play, and we had decided Johnson was a wash because he didn't play right out of the draft. He also had a good rookie year with like 30 points in 69 games at 18 min a night. Stefan was the one I conceded on, I changed my statement to Hischer is the 2nd least impressive 1st overall pick since Daigle.

 

[SAK11]

I agree that he deserves more love for his play this year. These are the reasons I think he's gone at least somewhat under the radar:
--> No one had really heard much about him until maybe this time last year. Other top picks are talked about for years in advance.
--> He was a part of what most thought was a weaker draft class, especially at the top.
--> He went to an under the radar team in New Jersey. They are one of the least talked about teams in the league and haven't had a forward that's garnered a lot of hype in quite some time.
--> He's not Canadian. As a Canadian myself, at least, this makes a difference as I listen to/watch/read a lot of Canadian content, so he's less talked about than he probably would be if he was a Canadian. And similar to that,
--> He's not on a Canadian team. Brock Boeser isn't Canadian, but I've personally heard a lot more about him because he plays for the Canucks.

 

[BruinLVGA]

So an NHL coach who has the 1st overall pick who according to this thread is one of the best rookies ever doesn't have him on the 1st PP, instead he has a 6th round nobody?

And you don't find this strange at all? You would think with how good Hischer was this would be unacceptable.

It is unacceptable. I think he is trying to spread the talent on both units. The very talented one who plays in the less talented PP unit to give it more quality is Nico, unfortunately. What now?

EDIT: I just saw that you said that Hischier "according to this thread is one of the best rookies ever". No one said this but you. Are you familiar with the term strawman?

 

[haak84]

This isn't brain surgery. Hype follows the lead of the Canadian media.

Winnipeg - Canadian
MacKinnon - Canadian
Tavaras - Canadian (Toronto)
Laine - Would have gone to 1 of 2 Canadian teams
Eichel - (Small) chance of going to Edmonton
Stamkos - Canadian (Toronto)

New Jersey Devils - 4th last in league average attendance last year:

List of National Hockey League attendance figures - Wikipedia

New Jersey Devils - 21st in franchise value mid last season:

https://www.surepayroll.com/resources/blog/the-most-valuable-nhl-teams

I think you need this.View attachment 86731

I don't even know what the first part of your post is but you still labeled a franchise that had moved away in the 90's and is still one of the least successful franchises as 'marquee' just because they're Canadian. LOL. You're bias is so strong.

 

[haak84]

I'll bump this post when Nico is on the 1st PP unit and his PPG goes up.

 

[HBK27]

Dude just stop. Read some of the posts in this thread about Nico. At one point we were arguing intangibles. As a Hawks fan I understand once you start talking about back checking and defensive plays bumping up a players status you know you are reaching.

I've read the posts in this thread and there are plenty that back up his performance with actual data - none of which you would actually reply to.

And Nico's defensive abilities were talked about quite a bit before he was drafted, which is part of the reason for the Datsyuk comparisons. He's been impressive defensively, especially for an 18 year old.

To use your term, "as a Devils fan I understand" the importance of good defense. His performance offensively in terms of overall points & 5-on-5 pts/60 min both stand up well on their own so it's not like we're trying to deflect away from those with a focus on his defensive abilities. Goals could be higher, but he's been flat out robbed a few times and doesn't get as much PP time as other top rookies. Still, even without the impressive goal total he's off to a great start.

 

[JP Nolan]

I agree that he deserves more love for his play this year. These are the reasons I think he's gone at least somewhat under the radar:
--> No one had really heard much about him until maybe this time last year. Other top picks are talked about for years in advance.
--> He was a part of what most thought was a weaker draft class, especially at the top.
--> He went to an under the radar team in New Jersey. They are one of the least talked about teams in the league and haven't had a forward that's garnered a lot of hype in quite some time.
--> He's not Canadian. As a Canadian myself, at least, this makes a difference as I listen to/watch/read a lot of Canadian content, so he's less talked about than he probably would be if he was a Canadian. And similar to that,
--> He's not on a Canadian team. Brock Boeser isn't Canadian, but I've personally heard a lot more about him because he plays for the Canucks.

No need to worry......The only name you need to know is Charlie McAVOY.......Start up there and work your way down the rookie mountain.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Dude just stop. Read some of the posts in this thread about Nico. At one point we were arguing intangibles. As a Hawks fan I understand once you start talking about back checking and defensive plays bumping up a players status you know you are reaching.

I and others have brought enough FACTS in this thread. You choose to ignore them all because it suits your agenda and then proceed to arbitrarily use micro portions of posts and somehow think that you are making a compelling argument. You are not.

How about this: in the past couple of pages a stat was posted that shows how Hischier points/60 are higher than any other 1st overall of the past 7-8 seasons. Tell me how this is not impressive, please.

 

[CanCHI]

I and others have brought enough FACTS in this thread. You choose to ignore them all because it suits your agenda and then proceed to arbitrarily use micro portions of posts and somehow think that you are making a compelling argument. You are not.

How about this: in the past couple of pages a stat was posted that shows how Hischier points/60 are higher than any other 1st overall of the past 7-8 seasons. Tell me how this is not impressive, please.

It's not impressive because he hasn't done anything impressive. I was asking earlier just show me one play that I would go WOW. He isn't even outpacing a 6th round nobody on his own team. And don't give me he is younger blah blah. I expect a first overal pick to be leaps ahead of a 6th round nobody in his rookie year.

 

[HBK27]

No Yak had 17 goals in 48 games rookie year including 11 in one month of play, and we had decided Johnson was a wash because he didn't play right out of the draft. He also had a good rookie year with like 30 points in 69 games at 18 min a night. Stefan was the one I conceded on, I changed my statement to Hischer is the 2nd least impressive 1st overall pick since Daigle.

How about Thornton? Or are we just looking at career after the fact instead of an apples-to-apples comparison?

How about defensemen? Fleury's rookie season was not good at all - 3.64 GAA (or 3.25 the following year) - that better as well?

Rick Nash had 39 points in 74 games and was -27 his rookie year. You going to tell Nico's not doing better than him either?