Why are so many of you jumping off the bandwagon and breaking your knees?

[Tobias Kahun]

When Russell is in your top4 for the next 4 years, that's not a cup contending team.

Same with Hamonic, except now we could have hamonic and no 1st or 2nd round pick

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I forgot how hunky dory things are in Edmonton right now.

Isn't the point of a discussion board to have discussions?

You don't have discussions, You change your argument all the time just to complain.

 

[Canovin]

I'm just saying, why does Calgary get a pass for some rough early games (btw, they weren't good DEFENSEively last year either, Hamonic included) yet the Oilers are a disaster after a few rough games?
Calgary obviously has a better offensive defense but these guys don't exactly have a great track record of being good defensively.

Their defense was good last year. Just didn't have the goalie to bail them out. This year they're starting off slow.

Yes we are starting off slow but we have a glaring hole in our top 4.

 

[CupofOil]

Yes, dump every single pick, that's exactly what I said. Come on.

Until the Oilers show a tangible improvement in drafting and development picks should be secondary for actual NHL players. Give me the known commodity any day. I have no problem with signing Russell but if you're telling me Chia couldn't negotiate a better deal than that one then his skills as a GM should be questioned.

Your justification for the trade is "they aren't good at drafting anyway so not a big loss" so you're essentially condemning this regime to failure because of past transgressions.
I'd rather have Russell even at that contract and the draft picks rather than just Hamonic. I don't believe that they could have had both.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You don't have discussions, You change your argument all the time just to complain.

Clearly...

I've had the same argument now that I had back in July. That not enough was done to improve the team and patch the holes the roster had.

 

[CupofOil]

Their defense was good last year. Just didn't have the goalie to bail them out. This year they're starting off slow.

Yes we are starting off slow but we have a glaring hole in our top 4.

The Flames defense hasn't been that good defensively for a while now, most overrated group in the league in that respect, and Hamonic was awful last year and yes, the Oilers have a glaring hole in the top 4 which is the same hole they would have had if they had Hamonic and not Russell.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Your justification for the trade is "they aren't good at drafting anyway so not a big loss" so you're essentially condemning this regime to failure because of past transgressions.
I'd rather have Russell even at that contract and the draft picks rather than just Hamonic. I don't believe that they could have had both.

Actually it's getting an NHL defenseman while simultaneously lowering Russell's leverage. And if he says no then you look elsewhere. You're not suddenly saddled with a gross contract. Maybe you even offload a minor deal so your contract number goes up (which is another issue entirely).

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Clearly...

I've had the same argument now that I had back in July. That not enough was done to improve the team and patch the holes the roster had.

Do you know there's going to be holes all the time on a roster that is built around a salary cap?

You also say JP had a sub par year, he actually had a real good year in the AHL for a 18 year old, also complain about all our drafting being poor, when he have revamped that in the past 3 years and it is way to early to state that.

For someone who always disregards when people bring up that good teams normally dont improve, you throw it out the window, but you're always here saying how Calgary is doing this and that, why does it matter what they do?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Do you know there's going to be holes all the time on a roster that is built around a salary cap?

You also say JP had a sub par year, he actually had a real good year in the AHL for a 18 year old, also complain about all our drafting being poor, when he have revamped that in the past 3 years and it is way to early to state that.

For someone who always disregards when people bring up that good teams normally dont improve, you throw it out the window, but you're always here saying how Calgary is doing this and that, why does it matter what they do?

I didn't say he had a subpar year, I said he didn't light up the AHL like a so-called "Ready to step into an NHL lineup" player should have. I was also concerned about how management waited way too long to send him down when it was clear he wasn't ready, something I hope they don't repeat with KY.

And yes there are going to be holes. It's the GM's job to fix those, isn't it? Do you like our defense now? Do you like Gryba/Auvitu as a pairing?

Calgary needed to improve, as did we. Do you think this is a cup contending team right now? Or should we be satisfied with being a playoff afterthought? I thought the goal was to win the Cup. Is that not the goal?

 

[Canovin]

Same with Hamonic, except now we could have hamonic and no 1st or 2nd round pick

A #3D had a bad year due to family issues.

While we are losing I hope those picks are helping us

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I didn't say he had a subpar year, I said he didn't light up the AHL like a so-called "Ready to step into an NHL lineup" player should have. I was also concerned about how management waited way too long to send him down when it was clear he wasn't ready, something I hope they don't repeat with KY.

And yes there are going to be holes. It's the GM's job to fix those, isn't it? Do you like our defense now? Do you like Gryba/Auvitu as a pairing?

Calgary needed to improve, as did we. Do you think this is a cup contending team right now? Or should we be satisfied with being a playoff afterthought? I thought the goal was to win the Cup. Is that not the goal?

You should apply to be a GM, you make it sound like it's easy, Just fix them! its NHL 18 load up that trade value bar and were good to go!.
Why does it matter what they need to do?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You should apply to be a GM, you make it sound like it's easy, Just fix them! its NHL 18 load up that trade value bar and were good to go!.
Why does it matter what they need to do?

You brought up Calgary so I responded...

And "you make it sound easy" is a classic response. I've said in this (and other) threads many times that being a GM isn't easy. But if it's too hard for Chia then he should find himself a replacement.

 

[CupofOil]

Actually it's getting an NHL defenseman while simultaneously lowering Russell's leverage. And if he says no then you look elsewhere. You're not suddenly saddled with a gross contract. Maybe you even offload a minor deal so your contract number goes up (which is another issue entirely).

His deal is essentially the same as Russell's and you seem to convinced that Russell was going to take less money to go along with a lesser role and I say, fat chance of that happening.

Basically, do you think that Hamonic is a 1st and two 2nd rounders better than Russell? I'd say that he's maybe a 2nd rounder better than Russell and maybe not even that if last year is any indication of the Hamonic we'll see going forward.

I do like Hamonic more than Russell and being a righty is a bonus but he's not worth the loss of draft picks and Russell IMO.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

His deal is essentially the same as Russell's and you seem to convinced that Russell was going to take less money to go along with a lesser role and I say, fat chance of that happening.

Basically, do you think that Hamonic is a 1st and two 2nd rounders better than Russell? I'd say that he's maybe a 2nd rounder better than Russell and maybe not even that if last year is any indication of the Hamonic we'll see going forward.

But it's really not. It's less money for less term and no NMC to boot. And if Russell overvalues himself that much then sayonara. Just would've shown that he valued money more than winning. I don't know if Hamonic is that much better than Russell but I know I like his contract a lot more.

 

[Canovin]

The Flames defense hasn't been that good defensively for a while now, most overrated group in the league in that respect, and Hamonic was awful last year and yes, the Oilers have a glaring hole in the top 4 which is the same hole they would have had if they had Hamonic and not Russell.

But that's what I mean. The flames haven't had good goaltending in awhile. The issue with the Flames is their depth at forward. But that's an easier fix now that their defense is solidified.

 

[CupofOil]

But it's really not. It's less money for less term and no NMC to boot. And if Russell overvalues himself that much then sayonara. Just would've shown that he valued money more than winning. I don't know if Hamonic is that much better than Russell but I know I like his contract a lot more.

You're arguing semantics. It's a little over $100,000 less over 1 less year, the cap difference over the next 3 years is miniscule. It's a better contract but the difference is negligible especially if they don't get the Hamonic of 2+ years ago. Even if it's a better contract, I still prefer the picks and Russell over the $100,000 savings and a better not so much better player.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You're arguing semantics. It's a little over $100,000 less over 1 less year, the cap difference over the next 3 years is miniscule. It's a better contract but the difference is negligible especially if they don't get the Hamonic of 2+ years ago. Even if it's a better contract, I still prefer the picks and Russell over the $100,000 savings and a better not so much better player.

The term is a really big part of it, though. Why was Russell given 4 years and not less? AND with an NMC to boot! When your top pairing is getting just over 4 million each you don't pay a #4/5 almost that amount.

Do you think Russell is going to get any better over the course of his contract?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Their defense was good last year. Just didn't have the goalie to bail them out. This year they're starting off slow.

Yes we are starting off slow but we have a glaring hole in our top 4.

Their "good and better defense" last year was bottom

The term is a really big part of it, though. Why was Russell given 4 years and not less? AND with an NMC to boot! When your top pairing is getting just over 4 million each you don't pay a #4/5 almost that amount.

Do you think Russell is going to get any better over the course of his contract?

When our top pairing makes that little you can afford to pay more for your #4

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Their "good and better defense" last year was bottom

When our top pairing makes that little you can afford to pay more for your #4

You shouldn't have to though. Since the Oilers are better you'd think players would start taking discounts to play with this team.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You shouldn't have to though. Since the Oilers are better you'd think players would start taking discounts to play with this team.

Good players only take discounts to play in very recent cup winners or places with much lower taxes.

 

[Paralyzer]

Who here is leaving?
This thread is pointing at people calling out a bad start as confirmation of a poor offseason and calling them bandwagon fans.
Nobody's leaving.
Just concerned.

Do you know for sure people didn't leave? Or is that a guess? No one knows for sure. If you are not a band-wagoner then it's not pointed at you. Don't know why you should be so concerned.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Do you know for sure people didn't leave? Or is that a guess? No one knows for sure. If you are not a band-wagoner then it's not pointed at you. Don't know why you should be so concerned.

Because I think it is pointed at me. I think it's pointed at anyone who's critical of the team right now.
For the record, I think the team will be okay because McDavid is that good and Talbot will return to form. Ultimately that's what worked last season and that should pull the team into the playoffs and then who knows. Beyond that I don't think this off season offered much hope for improvements. So far, this start has confirmed those fears. Is that jumping off the bandwagon. Are you really of the belief that "so many" people are bailing on the team. Actually leaving just because they lost 3 games?
I think this bandwagon silliness is just to make the optimistic set feel better about themselves, much like drinking the kool aid world in reverse.

 

[McJadeddog]

Some of us were never on the bandwagon and voiced concerns throughout the off season. Now, by no means did I think this team would be as putridly terrible as they have been, but I figured we'd be in tough to make the playoffs again. Looks like I was too optimistic.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

When does it become okay to panic?

 

[McJadeddog]

When does it become okay to panic?

The start of the season was the correct time. Anybody with a brain in their head could have seen these potential problems at the start of the season.