Why are so many of you jumping off the bandwagon and breaking your knees?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You sign him a week before so he doesn't get better offers? Or you like the player and don't want to push off the signing to a busy time?

If he gets a better offer than 4x4 then kiss him and say goodbye. There was time left even before the interview period started.

I don't think the D is good enough right now, I'm just saying that it was a difficult task to bring in a Sekera replacement (a legit top 4 Dman) without costing assets whether that be by signing or trade. The package Calgary gave up wasn't cheap either, they pretty much gutted their entire draft to bring in a pretty good Dman coming off of a down year with an extensive injury history. There's risk from their side as well.

I'd be ok with Chia bringing in somebody like Garrison as a stopgap although it would suck to blow most of the cap space on such an underwhelming stopgap.

Well we don't live in a perfect world. You gotta give to get. We had to pay our best winger just to upgrade on defense (a move that by my estimation paid off handsomely), because for whatever reason the Oilers simply can't catch a break when it comes to acquiring defensemen. Drafting is only a concern if you do it well, which safe to say the Oilers have not.

Probably a good idea to have as much knowledge as possible about your roster before the draft yes.

Plus there’s the free agent courting period now.

If you're basing your draft around Kris Russell.... And yes I did factor that into account. It didn't take place for a few more days and if people are hocking more money at Kris Russell then you say sayonara.

 

[Canovin]

Russell $4M/4y + 1 1st and 2 2nds
vs
Hamonic $3.9M/3y

Russell coming off a good season, familiar with the team and works with Sekera.

Chia would have looked like a fool paying that price for Hamonic.

Nurse Benning held their own on the 3rdpair last year so all talk of Russell being signed for 3rd pair duties is hindsight at its best. It would have been Hamonic vs Russell.


I was high a Hamonic before and would love him on the team, but it is really hard to justify that price without the hindsight of the first handful of games this season.

Or Hamonic 3.9Mx3 and Russell 5Mx1

For playoffs
Klef-Larsson
Sekera-Hamonic
Nurse-Russell
Benning

 

[Raoul Duke]

Well, being critical is one thing. But to jump when the team is down but them come back as soon as they are winning is ridiculous. That's my point. You either keep cheering or you don't. That's what makes you a true fan.

Who here is leaving?
This thread is pointing at people calling out a bad start as confirmation of a poor offseason and calling them bandwagon fans.
Nobody's leaving.
Just concerned.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Russell $4M/4y + 1 1st and 2 2nds
vs
Hamonic $3.9M/3y

Russell coming off a good season, familiar with the team and works with Sekera.

Chia would have looked like a fool paying that price for Hamonic.

Nurse Benning held their own on the 3rdpair last year so all talk of Russell being signed for 3rd pair duties is hindsight at its best. It would have been Hamonic vs Russell.

I was high a Hamonic before and would love him on the team, but it is really hard to justify that price without the hindsight of the first handful of games this season.

Chia didn't look great for that Russell contract. What you do is you make the trade then you bargain with Russell for a cheaper deal.

 

[CycloneSweep]

If he gets a better offer than 4x4 then kiss him and say goodbye. There was time left even before the interview period started.


Well we don't live in a perfect world. You gotta give to get. We had to pay our best winger just to upgrade on defense (a move that by my estimation paid off handsomely), because for whatever reason the Oilers simply can't catch a break when it comes to acquiring defensemen. Drafting is only a concern if you do it well, which safe to say the Oilers have not.


If you're basing your draft around Kris Russell.... And yes I did factor that into account. It didn't take place for a few more days and if people are hocking more money at Kris Russell then you say sayonara.

If they didn't sign him before the draft then they assume he is gone. The team then probably spends our first+ on replace him and then no Yamamoto.

Knowing your roster before the draft is a blessing.

 

[CupofOil]

The Flames defense is set regardless of what they paid. That's probably the hardest thing to do. Now they can turn their attention on filling the smaller holes

Their defense looks awful this season as expected because they aren't very good at actual defending, never have been. Mike Smith has saved their bacon thus far, he has been phenomenal.
They are great at pushing the pace and creating shots but man that group is leaky defensively.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Chia didn't look great for that Russell contract. What you do is you make the trade then you bargain with Russell for a cheaper deal.

That's not even a great trade. You give up high draft picks for a defensemen coming off a bad year when your team needs to use those draft picks for skilled prospects because you need ELCs to play roles when McDavid's contract kicks in. You make that trade and the Oilers have zero help coming.

Based on last year I take Russell over Hamonic pretty easily

 

[MessierII]

Chia didn't look great for that Russell contract. What you do is you make the trade then you bargain with Russell for a cheaper deal.

Why would we want Hamonic for the price they paid? You keep talking about how Russell brings nothing offensively. Well what does Hamonic bring offensively? Plus he’s coming off a mess of a year defensively. We need picks with the way our team is structured. We need those Yamamoto’s and Pulijaarvi’s on cheap deals.

 

[CupofOil]

Well we don't live in a perfect world. You gotta give to get. We had to pay our best winger just to upgrade on defense (a move that by my estimation paid off handsomely), because for whatever reason the Oilers simply can't catch a break when it comes to acquiring defensemen. Drafting is only a concern if you do it well, which safe to say the Oilers have not.

Again, the PREVIOUS regime is awful at drafting and developing Dmen, You want to starting dealing out draft picks like candy because of a previous regime failures?

This is the thing I don't get, some of you guys are upset at Chia for not being proactive but then when he is (getting Russell locked up early), it's seen as a negative.
As I said before, there's the very real chance that Russell walks if they focus their attention on Hamonic then they have Hamonic with no high draft picks next year, still a need for a Sekera replacement and the same impending cap issues. Hamonic might be better than Russell but is he THAT much better that you'd be ok with the gutting of an entire draft?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Their defense looks awful this season as expected because they aren't very good at actual defending, never have been. Mike Smith has saved their bacon thus far, he has been phenomenal.
They are great at pushing the pace and creating shots but man that group is leaky defensively.

Hamonic is Calgary's worst defensemen possession wise.

47.09% corsi
46.59% scoring chances for
40.54% high danger scoring chances for

Worst or second worst on the team in almost all those categories. Let's look at Russell

52.38% corsi
65.22% scoring chances for
57.69% high danger scoring chances for.

So last year and this year so far, Russell is the better defensemen. Quite easily. And on those stats Russell is lower end corsi, our best regular defensemen on the scoring chances department and middle of the pack on the high danger ones.

Edit pure numbers wise.
Hamonic has allowed 47(7.8 a game) scoring chances and 22 (3.66 game) high danger in 6 games, Russel 24 (6) and 11 (2.75)

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If they didn't sign him before the draft then they assume he is gone. The team then probably spends our first+ on replace him and then no Yamamoto.

Knowing your roster before the draft is a blessing.

Well then they should move the UFA period before the draft, shouldn't they? Otherwise how can you know your roster?

Why would we want Hamonic for the price they paid? You keep talking about how Russell brings nothing offensively. Well what does Hamonic bring offensively? Plus he’s coming off a mess of a year defensively. We need picks with the way our team is structured. We need those Yamamoto’s and Pulijaarvi’s on cheap deals.

Because for starters he's on a better contract than the one Russell signed. And Russell really doesn't provide all that much offense in a league where offense from the backend is key. (See: Nashville last year)

And while I agree in theory that the Oilers need picks, they haven't shown the ability to draft and develop properly in a looooooooooooooong time.

 

[Raab]

That was HFOil fantasy, there was never any indication that the Islanders were even remotely interested in Eberle for Hamonic. If rumors are to be believed, they even turned down Hall for Hamonic so there's that.

I know some of you don't want to believe it but Eberle, at this point in his career, is a salary dump. If Chia would have retained a good deal of the contract then maybe he could have gotten more value but it was a pretty soft market for a $6M Eberle. The package of high draft picks is a lot more valuable than an expensive Eberle in a cap world.

I do agree that the team is a bit handcuffed now with the Drai and Russell contracts but they were going to be handcuffed anyway if they brought in a top 4 Dman to replace Russell and it would have cost him to bring in that guy.

Like it or lump it Eb's+ 2 2nds easily beats out the Calgary deal. If they dont take it, then trade Eb's for an actual useful player. Strome should be sent to Bakersfield or in the press box. Guy is absolutely BRUTAL.

Edit: Can you also name me the last 2nd round player that had any impact for the Oilers? Giving up seconds is an easy trade to make when your team can't develop.

 

[Canovin]

Their defense looks awful this season as expected because they aren't very good at actual defending, never have been. Mike Smith has saved their bacon thus far, he has been phenomenal.
They are great at pushing the pace and creating shots but man that group is leaky defensively.

I'd give it a couple of more games for them to gel.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Again, the PREVIOUS regime is awful at developing Dmen, You want to starting dealing out draft picks like candy because of a previous regime failures?

This is the thing I don't get, some of you guys are upset at Chia for being proactive but then when he is (getting Russell locked up early), it's seen as a negative.
As I said before, there's the very real chance that Russell walks if they focus their attention on Hamonic then they have Hamonic with no high draft picks next year, still a need for a Sekera replacement and the same impending cap issues. Hamonic might be better than Russell but is he THAT much better that you'd be ok with the gutting of an entire draft?

Again, I point to as recently as LAST YEAR as a sign that things haven't completely changed in Oil Country for drafting/development. JP was supposed to be a sure thing and the Oilers still bungled his first year spectacularly, never mind that he wasn't really lighting the AHL up last year. Even the guys that took steps forward last year seem to be taking steps back in the limited season time this year.

The last time a non-top 1o Oilers draft pick really panned out... Well, we just traded him for Ryan Strome.

 

[CupofOil]

I'd give it a couple of more games for them to gel.

Shouldn't the same apply to the Oilers then?

 

[MessierII]

Well then they should move the UFA period before the draft, shouldn't they? Otherwise how can you know your roster?


Because for starters he's on a better contract than the one Russell signed. And Russell really doesn't provide all that much offense in a league where offense from the backend is key. (See: Nashville last year)

And while I agree in theory that the Oilers need picks, they haven't shown the ability to draft and develop properly in a looooooooooooooong time.

So your argument is Hamonic and is 200k cheaper contract is better and somehow he’s better offensively?? If he is it’s by a tiny margin. Hamonic has actually a lower career high than Russell. That 200k cap space for a player who was substaially worse last year is worth a 1st and 2 seconds to you?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So your argument is Hamonic and is 200k cheaper contract is better and somehow he’s better offensively?? If he is it’s by a tiny margin. Hamonic has actually a lower career high than Russell. That 200k cap space for a player who was substaially worse last year is worth a 1st and 2 seconds to you?

It's about more than salary though. You don't have the 4th year nor an NMC to contend with. Hamonic's contract is far more tradeable than Russell's.

 

[Canovin]

Shouldn't the same apply to the Oilers then?

Yes let's see more of bottom pairing Ds playing out of their position

 

[CupofOil]

Again, I point to as recently as LAST YEAR as a sign that things haven't completely changed in Oil Country for drafting/development. JP was supposed to be a sure thing and the Oilers still bungled his first year spectacularly, never mind that he wasn't really lighting the AHL up last year. Even the guys that took steps forward last year seem to be taking steps back in the limited season time this year.

The last time a non-top 1o Oilers draft pick really panned out... Well, we just traded him for Ryan Strome.

So just dump all the picks because of OBC, Eakins and co. and JP played a few more NHL games than he should have?

Whether you want to believe it or not, high draft picks are hugely important for a team that's about to be capped out. Building up that pipeline is essentially to keeping this a long term cup contender. They are going to have to deal some of those high picks eventually but I don't want to deal ALL of them for just Hamonic when I could just re-sign Russell.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It's about more than salary though. You don't have the 4th year nor an NMC to contend with. Hamonic's contract is far more tradeable than Russell's.

So you rather have a worse player cause his contract is more tradable? The crap?

We should trade McDavid for Barkov cause we can trade Barkovs contract easier.

 

[CupofOil]

Yes let's see more of bottom pairing Ds playing out of their position

I'm just saying, why does Calgary get a pass for some rough early games (btw, they weren't good DEFENSEively last year either, Hamonic included) yet the Oilers are a disaster after a few rough games?
Calgary obviously has a better offensive defense but these guys don't exactly have a great track record of being good defensively.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Again, the PREVIOUS regime is awful at drafting and developing Dmen, You want to starting dealing out draft picks like candy because of a previous regime failures?

This is the thing I don't get, some of you guys are upset at Chia for not being proactive but then when he is (getting Russell locked up early), it's seen as a negative.
As I said before, there's the very real chance that Russell walks if they focus their attention on Hamonic then they have Hamonic with no high draft picks next year, still a need for a Sekera replacement and the same impending cap issues. Hamonic might be better than Russell but is he THAT much better that you'd be ok with the gutting of an entire draft?

Some people are more worried about what calgary does and just want to complain about anything in Edmonton

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So just dump all the picks because of OBC, Eakins and co. and JP played a few more NHL games than he should have?

Whether you want to believe it or not, high draft picks are hugely important for a team that's about to be capped out. Building up that pipeline is essentially to keeping this a long term cup contender. They are going to have to deal some of those high picks eventually but I don't want to deal ALL of them for just Hamonic when I could just re-sign Russell.

Yes, dump every single pick, that's exactly what I said. Come on.

Until the Oilers show a tangible improvement in drafting and development picks should be secondary for actual NHL players. Give me the known commodity any day. I have no problem with signing Russell but if you're telling me Chia couldn't negotiate a better deal than that one then his skills as a GM should be questioned.

So you rather have a worse player cause his contract is more tradable? The crap?

We should trade McDavid for Barkov cause we can trade Barkovs contract easier.

If Hamonic is worse it's marginally so. Russell's contract is ugly in every way.

 

[Canovin]

So you rather have a worse player cause his contract is more tradable? The crap?

We should trade McDavid for Barkov cause we can trade Barkovs contract easier.

When Russell is in your top4 for the next 4 years, that's not a cup contending team.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Some people are more worried about what calgary does and just want to complain about anything in Edmonton

I forgot how hunky dory things are in Edmonton right now.

Isn't the point of a discussion board to have discussions?