who's a worse GM- Chuck Fletcher or Kyle Dubas?

[leafsfan5]

Dubas has done some stupid stuff, but Fletcher is an impressive level of incompetence

He is single handily ruining the Flyers for years to come

 

[Bouboumaster]

No Leafs fan with a brain cares about regular season results anymore. They could go 82-0-0 and it wouldn't matter until they win a playoff series.

And it's hilarious that they lose in 1st round every year (it's Christmas before Christmas) but look, Phidadelphia are bloated with bad contracts AND they still won't do the playoffs.
Because of Bergevin we went to the rock bottom last year.
Vancouver are recovering of years of Benning too.

Dubas doesn't touch this level of badness

 

[Ignite111]

Lou

 

[Rangeri]

Fletcher is Milbury-esq and that is historical level bad.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

You have two opposite questions...

Chuck is worse. Dubas' is just a net zero GM. Chuck activates makes the team worse.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Haha interesting that the title and actual poll question have it upside down. Voted for Dubas, which means that Fletcher is worse. By far.

I'm suprised dubas isn't winning this poll but then again, I feel like many weren't sure how to vote.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I think you guys might not know what a bad GM is.

Feb. 23, 2019

Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire: ​ Ryan Dzingel · $1,800,000 2019 7th round pick (CGY - #212 - Tyler Angle) Sum: $1,800,000 Change: +$1,150,000

Ottawa Senators Acquire: ​ Anthony Duclair · $650,000 2020 2nd round pick (CBJ - #52 - Joel Blomqvist) 2021 2nd round pick (CBJ - #37 - Josh Doan) Sum: $650,000 Change: -$1,150,000

Great trade, no? Here's what happened with the assets obtained :


1) Not too bad but Murray was extended at 6.25 AVV x 4 years despite being the most injury prone NHL players the 3-4 years prior... and coming out of his worst season in 2019-20

. 7, 2020

Ottawa Senators Acquire: ​ Matt Murray · $0 (Signing Rights) Sum: $0 Change: $0

Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire: ​ Jonathan Gruden · $0 (AHL/JR) 2020 2nd round pick (CBJ - #52 - Joel Blomqvist) Sum: $0 Change: $0

2) All teams pay to dump their players... Ottawa PAID a 2nd round pick to acquire a 6.5 AAV dump...

c. 26, 2020

Arizona Coyotes Acquire: ​ 2021 2nd round pick (CBJ - #37 - Josh Doan) Sum: $0 Change: -$6,500,000

Ottawa Senators Acquire: ​ Derek Stepan · $6,500,000 Sum: $6,500,000 Change: +$6,500,000

3) Anthony Duclair scored 31 goals in 87 games with Ottawa but was let go as a RFA, then went on to score 41 goals and 90 points in 117 games with Florida...

Now that is bad GMing, and this is just one random example.

Fletcher took a young up and coming team, turned them into an overpaid aging lazy boring unwatchable bunch of losers while throwing away draft picks and players to do it. I've been a Flyer fan for decades and decades...last season was the first time I ever just shut them off and never went back. They're worse this year.

 

[BCNate]

I feel Dubas has single handedly closed the Leafs cup window this offseason.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Kyle isn't out there trading a 1sst, 2 2nds a 3rd and a 4th for Risto and Deangelo

I agree with you it's Fletcher but Dubas has traded 3/4 of his last 1st round picks and has Jake Muzzin to show for it.

 

[Xspyrit]

Fletcher took a young up and coming team, turned them into an overpaid aging lazy boring unwatchable bunch of losers while throwing away draft picks and players to do it. I've been a Flyer fan for decades and decades...last season was the first time I ever just shut them off and never went back. Their worse this year.

I understand the frustration but I don't know. The problem I see is more the very ordinary drafting. Since Claude Giroux (2006) and JVR/Maroon (2007), so since 2008 to 2020 (too early for 2021 and 2022) :

- Sean Couturier (2011) was a great pick but 8th OA so you're not supposed to miss on those.

- Travis Sanheim (2014) great find at 17th OA

- Ivan Provorov (2015) is another high pick that you can't miss but a bit disappointing for a 7th OA pick

- Travis Konecny (2015) great pick at 24th OA

- Carter Hart (2016) great pick at 48th OA (but I personally find him quite overrated)

- Joel Farabee (2018) great pick at 14th OA

Some other decent picks (Cousins, Laughton, Gostisbehere, Lindblom, Aube-Kubel) but nothing to write home about. That's pretty much all they have to show for in 13 drafts

All these guys are still there. How a GM is supposed to build a good team with only the 6 players above in 13 drafts?

You'd be mesmerized to see the amount of talent Ottawa has drafted (and not only with high picks) from 2008 to 2020. Pierre Dorion and ownership are the reason why they aren't a contender right now (well, maybe soon finally)

Just to name a few : Karlsson, Stone, Zibanejad, Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, Chabot, Pageau, Formenton, Silfverberg, Hoffman, Lehner, Pinto, Greig, JBD, Sanderson, etc...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I agree with you it's Fletcher but Dubas has traded 3/4 of his last 1st round picks and has Jake Muzzin to show for it.

Yeah but I'm going to cut him a little bit of slack there, because one of those is Marleau.

Dubas didn't sign Marleau that was Lou.

Now he did sign Mrazek and that was a BIG mistake but Lou cost him one of those 1sts

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I understand the frustration but I don't know. The problem I see is more the very ordinary drafting. Since Claude Giroux (2006) and JVR/Maroon (2007), so since 2008 to 2020 (too early for 2021 and 2022) :

- Sean Couturier (2011) was a great pick but 8th OA so you're not supposed to miss on those.

- Travis Sanheim (2014) great find at 17th OA

- Ivan Provorov (2015) is another high pick that you can't miss but a bit disappointing for a 7th OA pick

- Travis Konecny (2015) great pick at 24th OA

- Carter Hart (2016) great pick at 48th OA (but I personally find him quite overrated)

- Joel Farabee (2018) great pick at 14th OA

Some other decent picks (Cousins, Laughton, Gostisbehere, Lindblom, Aube-Kubel) but nothing to write home about. That's pretty much all they have to show for in 13 drafts

All these guys are still there. How a GM is supposed to build a good team with only the 6 players above in 13 drafts?

You'd be mesmerized to see the amount of talent Ottawa has drafted (and not only with high picks) from 2008 to 2020. Pierre Dorion and ownership are the reason why they aren't a contender right now (well, maybe soon finally)

Just to name a few : Karlsson, Stone, Zibanejad, Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, Chabot, Pageau, Formenton, Silfverberg, Hoffman, Lehner, Pinto, Greig, JBD, Sanderson, etc...

They are definitely missing a superstar. The only two times they ever picked 2nd overall and they end up with JVR and Nolan Patrick. Makes a big difference if you get a Malkin or Doughty there, but that's the draft quality, not bad drafting (there).
I think if you go through the drafts of the last 20 years or so you'll see 8th overall (Couturier) doesn't guarantee star players...it's usually fairly mediocre.
9 of the 10 highest paid Flyers were brought in by Fletcher. He's only been there just over 3 years. Most of that money is going to some pretty mediocre to bad players. Building a team around Kevin Hayes and his buddies is working out about as great as I thought it would.

 

[Xspyrit]

They are definitely missing a superstar. The only two times they ever picked 2nd overall and they end up with JVR and Nolan Patrick. Makes a big difference if you get a Malkin or Doughty there, but that's the draft quality, not bad drafting (there).
I think if you go through the drafts of the last 20 years or so you'll see 8th overall (Couturier) doesn't guarantee star players...it's usually fairly mediocre.
9 of the 10 highest paid Flyers were brought in by Fletcher. He's only been there just over 3 years. Most of that money is going to some pretty mediocre to bad players. Building a team around Kevin Hayes and his buddies is working out about as great as I thought it would.

Yeah basically Fletcher has not been getting enough quality players on the UFA market.

I fail to see how he could get good players via trade as he has no good asset to trade (coming from the draft)

He cannot add to the team. His drafting doesn't produce enough, he needs to revamp the department.

Did you know that in 6 years, the best UFA (by far actually) that Pierre Dorion signed before Giroux was Evgeni Dadonov? Who had to be dumped 1 year later... We would have been ecstatic with Kevin Hayes lol


Anyway, I tell you : draft is KEY today, particularly if your team is not a top-5 destination like LA/Florida/NYR...

It reminds me how the Habs kept Trevor Timmins for so long and as a Sens fan (in Montreal) I wasn't complaining, I knew they were going nowhere as long as he was there. So I kept my mouth shut. now he's gone and there's real hope for them.

 

[A1LeafNation]

115 point GM and there are ppl making cases for both sides.

You can't make this shit up lol.

 

[Fatass]

Dubas inherited an elite core (created by LOu Lam) and done nothing with it. Fletcher is crap too.

 

[BringTheReign]

Either the wording of this poll is screwing people up, or the Leafs hate is out of control. I’m a neutral fan, and even the Murray move doesn’t push Dubas into Fletcher’s territory. People also forget Fletcher’s time in Minny. They’re still dealing with the consequences.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Dubas should not be allowed to negotiate contracts and should probably realize talent alone doesn't make a team. Fletcher good god does he do anything right?

 

[93LEAFS]

Dubas is incompetent, but he didn't trade a first and then pay Ristolainen, So Fletcher wins by default.

 

[centipede2233]

115 point GM and there are ppl making cases for both sides.

You can't make this shit up lol.

A GM inherited a team On a trajectory to 115 pt team and still can’t get it past the first round and people still think dubas is good at his job, you can’t make this shit up

 

[Platano King]

The Flyers were a playoff team when Fletcher took over in 2018. On top of Giroux, Couturier, Ghost and Provorov they were supposed to be set for the future with Patrick, Hart, Farabee, Frost etc. What followed was a disaster in player development and a total indictment of the Flyers org. This team was competing for a division title two years ago and they're in complete shambles now.

Say what you will about Dubas but he never dismantled a playoff contender in such an incredibly destructive fashion. Who else would choose Tony Deangelo and Nic Delausiers over Gaudreau?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Where’s the Stan Bowman option?

 

[keglu]

Dubas is pretty average GM. Should not be compared to ones that can be argued as worst in the league.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Dubas haters think a real GM should have signed Deslauriers because LEAFS NEED GRIT

I mean they do, that's a fact but that doesn't mean you go out and sign a pure enforcer to 4 years and nearly 2 million a year

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Dubas is a mixed bag but still, you can't argue with his season results.

Since Bergevin and Benning are gone, we're looking at arguably the worst GM in the league in Fletcher

His regular season results are fantastic that's not why we want him fired

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Anybody notice the percentage of the votes? It adds up to about 106%