Where does Matthews rank ?

[Iapyi]

It's hard to ignore them on forums though. Since they flood the discussion. I guess ignore button comes handy in this regard.

i guess we may be different in that sense as i do find them easy to ignore. i think they prey on those that buy their crap.

for example there could be 8/10 posters saying that matthews is not at the level of mcdavid [which he's not] but they will jump on the 1.5 out of 10 who say he is better and then make self fulfilling comments like "every maple leaf fan/the maple leaf fan base" think matthews is better.

easy for me to ignore them in my mind even if i sometimes respond to them.

another thing they do is call someone a troll if they don't agree with them.

 

[authentic]

I see your point. Well, I am not in agreement about the defensive part. There's no other forward in the league that is very close to Bergeron for that, in my opinion. Kopitar, maybe, Barkov getting closer.

Truthfully though, I haven't seen enough of the others lately to make a fair comparison on the defensive side, but all I know is he appears to have an exceptional defensive game.

 

[Plural]

i guess we may be different in that sense as i do find them easy to ignore. i think they prey on those that buy their crap.

for example there could be 8/10 posters saying that matthews is not at the level of mcdavid [which he's not] but they will jump on the 1.5 out of 10 who say he is better and then make self fulfilling comments like "every maple leaf fan/the maple leaf fan base" think matthews is better.

easy for me to ignore them in my mind even if i sometimes respond to them.

another thing they do is call someone a troll if they don't agree with them.

Let me clarify, I don't either engage with posters who're clearly going way off the deep end but it's still something I see and I recognize the idiocy which in turn creates a negative connotation to Matthews. Trust me, if this same shit keeps going for a while longer the vast majority of this board will turn on Matthews. That in returns creates lower quality discussion which in return pisses over my HF experience. Matthews is one of my favorite players in the league and I like chatting about him and following him but some of the cronies make it almost impossible. It's similar effect as there was with Laine last season (absolutely love him too). Even if I were to completely ignore the posts there's still so much of them that majority on this board will notice them and it will have effect on how the player himself will be viewed here.

 

[daver]

Can we wait until he gets some significant Selke recognition before using his defense to separate himself from similar offensive players, let alone placing him above them?

 

[Critical13]

Top 10-15.

 

[cneely]

I don't have him top 15 right now, more like 20-25. He's definitely trending in that direction though. Could see him as top 5 in another year or two.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

There aren't any fewer options because it would be ridiculous to suggest he's anything worse than a top 15 player, and even the top 15 should be removed. You had a first hand look at him yesterday, remember?

I'm not sure you want to use yesterdays game as some sort of measuring stick for Matthews.

He's in the top 20-25 today. That said I fully believe he will be a top 5 and most likely a top 3 player inside 2-3 years, but he hasn't proven anything to put him there yet.

 

[blundluntman]

Top 10. Usually it's good to be conservative about rankings for 2nd year players but he's different. I don't see any chance of him dropping off. Only way to go is up for him

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Let me clarify, I don't either engage with posters who're clearly going way off the deep end but it's still something I see and I recognize the idiocy which in turn creates a negative connotation to Matthews. Trust me, if this same **** keeps going for a while longer the vast majority of this board will turn on Matthews. That in returns creates lower quality discussion which in return pisses over my HF experience. Matthews is one of my favorite players in the league and I like chatting about him and following him but some of the cronies make it almost impossible. It's similar effect as there was with Laine last season (absolutely love him too). Even if I were to completely ignore the posts there's still so much of them that majority on this board will notice them and it will have effect on how the player himself will be viewed here.

yeah it's easy to say "well just ignore the fringe extreme views" but in practice you're completely right that it makes it so easy to turn on a team/player. I think it's human nature to want to see extreme arrogance backfire on someone like that

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Crosby
McDavid
Matthews
Stamkos
Karlsson

Kucherov
Tarasenko
Kane
Malkin
Ovechkin

 

[DearDiary]

I'm not here to bash the leafs - your poll is just bad.

McDavid was expected to become the best player in the world (generational) and was well on his way. Matthews doesn't have the same pedigree. As a Leafs fan you can argue he'll be as good/better than McDavid if you like - it still doesn't change that his pedigree is lower, which means he needs more accomplishments.

Finally.

Crosby
Malkin
McDavid
Kane
Benn
Price
Bob
Karlsson
Doughty
Hedman
Stamkos
Kucherov
Tavares
Bergeron
Seguin
Tarasenko

That's at least 16 players. A very solid case can be made that all of these players are better than Matthews today.

I'd take all of them except Tarasenko and Benn over Matthews, even that is a thin margin. So top 14, voted top 15. Very close to being a top 20 player, ridiculous that OP didn't even have it as an option... topics like this give Leafs fans a bad name

 

[Willy Styles]

Hes definitely top 10, closer to top 5 than 10, so I homer voted for top 5.

IMO, its his consistency this year (which he often lacked last year, offensively), on both ends of the ice that sets him apart from the other offensively productive centres and wingers.

Too bad he has a back injury this year, he was a site to behold in the first 15ish games of the season, single handedly won the Leafs games.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Definitely not top 10 yet. People have jumped the gun a bit looking at his potential. If all goes well I could see him cracking the top 5 at some point. Right now there are clearly 10 better players.

 

[HarrisonFord]

I voted top 10, but not offering that option is a very bad look on you.

in a Crosby poll, should OP give an outside top 15 option? dont be ridiculous

 

[daver]

in a Crosby poll, should OP give an outside top 15 option? dont be ridiculous

It's debatable that an outside Top 1 should be an option, but that has nothing to do with Matthews who is barely Top 15 in goals and PPG so far this year.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It's debatable that an outside Top 1 should be an option, but that has nothing to do with Matthews who is barely Top 15 in goals and PPG so far this year.

I don't think outside of the top 15 is a reasonable option.
But then I don't think top 5 is a reasonable option either and there have been some who have put him there. So if you're going to put top as an option then outside of top 15 should be too.

 

[weems]

Look at his minutes per game vs other stars.

Also take into consideration this guy only gets time on a 2nd PP unit.

It's actually crazy how much offense he creates when you factor in those two things.

 

[DearDiary]

in a Crosby poll, should OP give an outside top 15 option? dont be ridiculous

Crosby is the 1/2 best player with years of great play. Matthews doesn't have a track record, he's even getting outscored by Kessel aka hot dog boy...

>2016
Matthews 69 points
Kessel 70 points

>2017
Matthews 26 points
Kessel 32 points

Do you consider Kessel to be a top 15 player?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

in a Crosby poll, should OP give an outside top 15 option? dont be ridiculous

What does Crosby have to do with Matthews? It's comparisons like this that are ridiculous.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Crosby is the 1/2 best player with years of great play. Matthews doesn't have a track record, he's even getting outscored by Kessel aka hot dog boy...

>2016
Matthews 69 points
Kessel 70 points

>2017
Matthews 26 points
Kessel 32 points

Do you consider Kessel to be a top 15 player?

This year Kessel has gotten the majority of his points on a PP with players like Crosby and Malkin. He also plays with Malkin at 5v5. He's also played 4 more games than Matthews. So no, I don't think he's a top 15 player.

 

[daver]

Look at his minutes per game vs other stars.

Also take into consideration this guy only gets time on a 2nd PP unit.

It's actually crazy how much offense he creates when you factor in those two things.

pts/60 is, at best, a way to assess lower tier forwards. It is not useful in a comparison to the best offensive talents in the league, especially ones that are so heavily relied on to produce. It is borderline ridiculous that a player playing more minutes is looked upon as a negative.

McDavid had significantly less icetime in his rookie year and was 2nd in pts/60. His pts/60 was only marginally up last year. Crosby's icetime was significantly reduced last season and it did not affect his PPG. In fact his PPG increased.

There is no correlation.

 

[TheDoldrums]

pts/60 is, at best, a way to assess lower tier forwards. It is not useful in a comparison to the best offensive talents in the league, especially ones that are so heavily relied on to produce. It is borderline ridiculous that a player playing more minutes is looked upon as a negative.

McDavid had significantly less icetime in his rookie year and was 2nd in pts/60. His pts/60 was only marginally up last year. Crosby's icetime was significantly reduced last season and it did not affect his PPG. In fact his PPG increased.

There is no correlation.

/gives two anecdotes

There's no correlation! Because that's how data works.

Crosby gets 4 minutes of PP time a game. Matthews gets 2 minutes. I'm pretty sure Matthews points would go up if his PP time doubled.

 

[Maukkis]

None of the options apply. He is closer to top 50 than top 15.

 

[daver]

/gives two anecdotes

There's no correlation! Because that's how data works.

Crosby gets 4 minutes of PP time a game. Matthews gets 2 minutes. I'm pretty sure Matthews points would go up if his PP time doubled.

gives opinion. There is correlation! Because that's how data works.

 

[BruinLVGA]

in a Crosby poll, should OP give an outside top 15 option? dont be ridiculous

When one just thought of making a snarky but yet smart comment and it's about to backfire in 3... 2... 1...

The problem with your statement is that Crosby, in his THIRTEEN seasons in the league has:
- WON -> 3 Cups, 2 Hart, 2 Rocket Richard (+ he is the reigning Rocket Richard winner), 2 Conn Smythe (he is also the reigning Conn Smythe winner), 2 Art Ross, 2 Pearson.
Outside of NHL stuff, he also won: 2 Olympic gold medals, 1 IIHF WC, 1 WJC, 1 NHL WC.
- BEEN NOMINATED -> 4 times to the 1st All Star team, 3 times to the 2nd All Star team (including for the last season).
- 1054 points over 809 games (1.30 ppg over his career, so far), with a high of 120 points and a total of three seasons over 100 points.

ALL THAT is why an outside top 15 option would NOT be needed for Sidney Crosby._Because he has been top 1-2 since he entered the league and HE STILL IS, by virtue of what he does/achieves. But if you don't believe it, put up a poll like this one for Crosby and see the results for yourself. Go ahead.

Now make a resume for Auston "I have a Disney-like lion tattoo, complete with a cartoonish crown" Matthews and let me know if it comes even nearly close to Crosby's, or at least enough to justify not having an outside of the top 15 option for a poll on hfboards.
Oh and by the way, there's folks in this thread who believe he is not top 15 just yet. So even, by the very own words of other posters, a not top 15 option was needed.

Now dispute any of this, go ahead. "Ridiculous" he says. That's rich.