Where do you rank Ovechkin?

[dellzor]

1) Without Lemieux, Penguins are not existing today

2) Who were those HOFs??

From what I can see it would be...

Jagr, Coffey, Recchi, Francis, Murphy

I think

 

[Nadal On Clay]

From what I can see it would be...

Jagr, Coffey, Recchi, Francis, Murphy

I think

Who made Murphy and Francis HOFs?

Jagr was far from being relevent in 91 and 92.

 

[dellzor]

Who made Murphy and Francis HOFs?

Jagr was far from being relevent in 91 and 92.

Yes but he said FUTURE hall of famers not current hall of famers lol

 

[Plural]

Who made Murphy and Francis HOFs?

Jagr was far from being relevent in 91 and 92.

Jagr was pretty good already back then. Certainly an impact player.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Jagr was pretty good already back then. Certainly an impact player.

He only became good in the 2nd playoff run.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Yes but he said FUTURE hall of famers not current hall of famers lol

Yeah, but you couldn’t predict they would became HOFs. That’s not a valid argument.

 

[Plural]

He only became good in the 2nd playoff run.

He became great, I think he was good before. But that's semantics. He was pretty important in the second cup, that we agree on. But now we're also getting too far away from the OP. I think we're on the same page about Jagr and his impact on the Pens in his first years there.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

He became great, I think he was good before. But that's semantics. He was pretty important in the second cup, that we agree on. But now we're also getting too far away from the OP. I think we're on the same page about Jagr and his impact on the Pens in his first years there.

He was useless in his rookie year (91) and became great in the 92 playoffs with 24pts in 23GP (had 69 in 70 in the 1992 RS).

And yeah back on topic now lol

 

[GreatGonzo]

He was useless in his rookie year (91) and became great in the 92 playoffs with 24pts in 23GP (had 69 in 70 in the 1992 RS).

And yeah back on topic now lol

Jagr was way more skilled and talented than his numbers suggest his first few years. Fact is he was only 18-19 years old, and was playing 2nd line minutes.

To say he was useless is ridiculous. He was young and still adapting. Just because he didn’t come in like Lemieux doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great player for the team early on.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Jagr was way more skilled and talented than his numbers suggest his first few years. Fact is he was only 18-19 years old, and was playing 2nd line minutes.

To say he was useless is ridiculous. He was young and still adapting. Just because he didn’t come in like Lemieux doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great player for the team early on.

I mean you just said it, he was a 2nd liner. He was nowhere close the player he was from 95-02

 

[GreatGonzo]

I mean you just said it, he was a 2nd liner. He was nowhere close the player he was from 95-02

That doesn’t mean he was useless, like you said.

He was also used on a shut down line with Francis, who only scored 54 points in ‘92. Jagr had 69 in 70.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

That doesn’t mean he was useless, like you said.

He was also used on a shut down line with Francis, who only scored 54 points in ‘92. Jagr had 69 in 70.

He wasn’t “useless”, but you certainly cant count him as a HOFer during those 2 seasons which was the point made by MJ.

 

[GreatGonzo]

He wasn’t “useless”, but you certainly cant count him as a HOFer during those 2 seasons which was the point made by MJ.

I know he wasn’t useless, that’s why I stated something about your use of the word.

I don’t think he was referring to him as a HOFer at that moment, but more a future HOFer. I doubt guys like Francis, Recchi, or Murphy were slam dunk HOFers at that time as well, but regardless, they became some of the best players and were inducted.

By the time Jagr was hitting his prime, the Pens depth wasn’t nearly as Strong and their defense was relatively weak. All while his peak was without Lemieux and surrounded by an even more weak Pens team.

 

[Midnight Judges]

From what I can see it would be...

Jagr, Coffey, Recchi, Francis, Murphy

I think

...Trottier, Mullen

 

[Midnight Judges]

He wasn’t “useless”, but you certainly cant count him as a HOFer during those 2 seasons which was the point made by MJ.

Huh? Jagr scored 24 points in the '92 playoffs.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Who made Murphy and Francis HOFs?

The Hockey Hall of Fame Selection committee. They vote on it every year FYI.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Huh? Jagr scored 24 points in the '92 playoffs.

Still not a HOF resume with those 24 pts... which was also his best playoff performance.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Still not a HOF resume with those 24 pts... which was also his best playoff performance.

No one playoff performance gets a player into the HoF. That is not a reasonable metric.

24 points in 21 games in 1992 was a worthy performance for a HoF'er.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

...Trottier, Mullen

The old Trottier? Yeah

 

[Midnight Judges]

Point is, Lemieux was the best player on his team, but "carry" them he did not. He had plenty of support.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The old Trottier? Yeah

OK, so Lemieux had help from 5 other hall of famers, not 6. Is that better?

Has Ovechkin ever had any hall of famers? Is Nick Backstrom - recently rated as the 13th best C in the NHL - a hall of famer?

 

[daver]

Point is, Lemieux was the best player on his team, but "carry" them he did not. He had plenty of support.

OV simply does not have the "it" factor that other players in the Top 20 have. It is a very limited group that has Top 20 all-time talent and the competitiveness to do whatever is needed to win. OV is an all-time great at what he does but he is limited to what he does.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

OK, so Lemieux had help from 5 other hall of famers, not 6. Is that better?

Has Ovechkin ever had any hall of famers? Is Nick Backstrom - recently rated as the 13th best C in the NHL - a hall of famer?

Wait so you still count Jagr as an HOF in those seasons? I mean, Alex Tanguay put 21 in 24 with Colorado in the playoffs in his 2nd season too, was he considered an Hall of famer?

 

[Lebowski]

Would have voted top 20 if there was an option to do so. As it is, top 30.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Point is, Lemieux was the best player on his team, but "carry" them he did not. He had plenty of support.

Howe had Delvecchio and Lindsey flanking him for the majority of his prime.

Lemieux had... Stevens, Coffey for some seasons and Jagr afterwards.