Where do you rank Ovechkin?

All-time ranking of Ovechkin


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    188

GreatGonzo

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May 26, 2011
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OV simply does not have the "it" factor that other players in the Top 20 have. It is a very limited group that has Top 20 all-time talent and the competitiveness to do whatever is needed to win. OV is an all-time great at what he does but he is limited to what he does.
Ya the “it” factor being a better supporting cast.

Sure, Crosby has that extra gear for the playoffs, but let’s not kid ourselves and say that Ovi doesn’t. He just never had guys like Malkin and Kessel to help him. Same goes with Lemieux and Gretzky, who had numerous talent around them.

One player doesn’t win a cup, no matter how great. Great teams win stanley cups, and as many presidents trophies as Ovi has been a part of, he has still been the best player in the post season for the Caps.
Howe had Delvecchio and Lindsey flanking him for the majority of his prime.

Lemieux had... Stevens, Coffey for some seasons and Jagr afterwards.
Your comparisons are very strange. Just because Lemieux wasn’t surrounded with HOF talent doesn’t mean he didn’t have a great supporting cast.

He played with guys like Mullen and Tocchet as well. Any team where your second line with Francis and Jagr on the 2nd line is going to be a great team.
 
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Nadal On Clay

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Ya the “it” factor being a better supporting cast.

Sure, Crosby has that extra gear for the playoffs, but let’s not kid ourselves and say that Ovi doesn’t. He just never had guys like Malkin and Kessel to help him. Same goes with Lemieux and Gretzky, who had numerous talent around them.

One player doesn’t win a cup, no matter how great. Great teams win stanley cups, and as many presidents trophies as Ovi has been a part of, he has still been the best player in the post season for the Caps.

Your comparisons are very strange. Just because Lemieux wasn’t surrounded with HOF talent doesn’t mean he didn’t have a great supporting cast.

He played with guys like Mullen and Tocchet as well. Any team where your second line with Francis and Jagr on the 2nd line is going to be a great team.

Jagr was 19. Tocchet? Really?
 

GreatGonzo

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May 26, 2011
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Jagr was 19. Tocchet? Really?
Yes he was 19, yet was still already an established player with the Pens, only to improve more and more....what’s your point?

Is Tocchet not a good enough player to list by your standards?.....he was Lemieux linemate who was already a great power forward style goal scorer.

Do you standards end and begin with the Hall? Because a player can still be a great talent without being in the Hall....I thought that was pretty much a given.
 

Nadal On Clay

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Yes he was 19, yet was still already an established player with the Pens, only to improve more and more....what’s your point?

Is Tocchet not a good enough player to list by your standards?.....he was Lemieux linemate who was already a great power forward style goal scorer.

Do you standards end and begin with the Hall? Because a player can still be a great talent without being in the Hall....I thought that was pretty much a given.

Im just saying that Lemieux was/is better than Howe lol.

Lemieux carried the Pens from 84-90 by himself. Without him, Tocchet and Stevens doesn’t have the numbers that they have now. I’m not the one who brought up the HOF in the discussion. I’m just saying Lemieux was by far the best player in those cups runs and the numbers of his teammates were inflated bc of him.
 

GreatGonzo

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May 26, 2011
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Im just saying that Lemieux was/is better than Howe lol.

Lemieux carried the Pens from 84-90 by himself. Without him, Tocchet and Stevens doesn’t have the numbers that they have now. I’m not the one who brought up the HOF in the discussion. I’m just saying Lemieux was by far the best player in those cups runs and the numbers of his teammates were inflated bc of him.
I never disputed that Lemieux was the best player, in fact I don’t think anyone has, that’s not arguable IMO.....but he still NEEDED the supporting cast he had from ‘91-‘93 to win back to back cups.

Like I said, a player can be great all he wants, everyone still needs help. He certainly helped his linemates, but they weren’t scrubs, products of Lemieux. Tocchet had great years in Philly leading up to his time in Pitt, and Stevens was already talented player, did playing with Lemieux help? Absolutely, but don’t he so quick to give him all the glory. He was their best player but you still need more players to rise to the occasion.

Did you Also forget the ‘91 season where Lemieux only played 26 games? The Cullen, Recchi, and Stevens line helped keep the Pens afloat. They had plenty of talent outside of Lemieux, he wasn’t responsible for every player on that team having great stats.
 

Nathaniel

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Oct 18, 2013
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Really don't know why Washington passed up a elite centre for a winger. Literally the last position you build a team around 13 years later you can see why...
 

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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Just outside of the top 10 for me but it doesn't mean he can't get there. Wins a cup and a conn Smyth he is easily top 10.
 

bert

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Really don't know why Washington passed up a elite centre for a winger. Literally the last position you build a team around 13 years later you can see why...
Oh bullshit.

Switch Ovechkin with Malkin and Pittsburgh might even have more cups. Best player by far at the time.of the draft too. Get off your high horse.
 
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KoozNetsOff 92

Hala Madrid
Apr 6, 2016
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Oh bull****.

Switch Ovechkin with Malkin and Pittsburgh might even have more cups. Best player by far at the time.of the draft too. Get off your high horse.

Yup, there was talk of OV going 1st OA for years. No one really cared about Malkin because he was clearly inferior. And years later nothing has really changed, OV has been better than Malkin in 8/12 seasons. People say that Malkin hasn't had many healthy seasons but in 2 of his healthy seasons OV was still clearly better than him. The only difference is that Malkin had the benefit of Crosby on the top line drawing the toughest matchups and doing all the dirty work. Imagine peak OV getting the cupcake matchups? 65 goals would have bumped up to at least 75.

And before someone says he wouldn't have Backstrom and would have weak line mates.. OV scored 98 goals in 2 seasons before Backstrom entered the NHL, playing with Cs like Jeff f***ing Halpern. He had his 65 goal season with Kozlov as his main C (Backstrom was permanently put on his line later in that season).. So he could carry a line just fine.
 
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Nathaniel

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Oct 18, 2013
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Yup, there was talk of OV going 1st OA for years. No one really cared about Malkin because he was clearly inferior. And years later nothing has really changed, OV has been better than Malkin in 8/12 seasons. People say that Malkin hasn't had many healthy seasons but in 2 of his healthy seasons OV was still clearly better than him. The only difference is that Malkin had the benefit of Crosby on the top line drawing the toughest matchups and doing all the dirty work. Imagine peak OV getting the cupcake matchups? 65 goals would have bumped up to at least 75.

And before someone says he wouldn't have Backstrom and would have weak line mates.. OV scored 98 goals in 2 seasons before Backstrom entered the NHL, playing with Cs like Jeff ****ing Halpern. He had his 65 goal season with Kozlov as his main C (Backstrom was permanently put on his line later in that season).. So he could carry a line just fine.
Enjoy the golf course. The "clearly inferior" player will likely put up another great playoffs with a cup..
 

amnesiac

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Jul 10, 2010
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Really don't know why Washington passed up a elite centre for a winger. Literally the last position you build a team around 13 years later you can see why...
yeah, like when Detroit took centre Keith Primeau and Philly took Mike Ricci 4th OA before that winger Jaromir Jagr. Thank god for that.

Kovalchuk before Alex Svitov.

Kane before Turris

etc etc
 
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Nathaniel

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Oct 18, 2013
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yeah, like when Detroit took centre Keith Primeau and Philly took Mike Ricci 4th OA before that winger Jaromir Jagr. Thank god for that.

Kovalchuk before Alex Svitov.

Kane before Turris

etc etc
Yeah and we know how well that turned out for the thrashers. When is Atlantas next game again?....
 

Nadal On Clay

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yeah, like when Detroit took centre Keith Primeau and Philly took Mike Ricci 4th OA before that winger Jaromir Jagr. Thank god for that.

Kovalchuk before Alex Svitov.

Kane before Turris

etc etc

Different quality of players...
 

Nadal On Clay

Djokovic > Nadal > Federer
Oct 11, 2017
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Yup, there was talk of OV going 1st OA for years. No one really cared about Malkin because he was clearly inferior. And years later nothing has really changed, OV has been better than Malkin in 8/12 seasons. People say that Malkin hasn't had many healthy seasons but in 2 of his healthy seasons OV was still clearly better than him. The only difference is that Malkin had the benefit of Crosby on the top line drawing the toughest matchups and doing all the dirty work. Imagine peak OV getting the cupcake matchups? 65 goals would have bumped up to at least 75.

And before someone says he wouldn't have Backstrom and would have weak line mates.. OV scored 98 goals in 2 seasons before Backstrom entered the NHL, playing with Cs like Jeff ****ing Halpern. He had his 65 goal season with Kozlov as his main C (Backstrom was permanently put on his line later in that season).. So he could carry a line just fine.

Ah cmon, this is weak. We’re not in 1980. There is not only one good line on a team. Malkin’s opponents are not way inferior to Crosby or Ovi. That’s complete bullshit. The only reason Ovi has a better RS than Malkin is because of Malkin’s health. Malkin is far from clearly inferior to Ovechkin.

Also, the main goal of hockey is to win the cup. #71 has three of them. And yeah, Ovi only had 3 Presidents trophy team around him to make some noise in the playoffs... let’s not act that it is all his teammates fault.
 

KoozNetsOff 92

Hala Madrid
Apr 6, 2016
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Ah cmon, this is weak. We’re not in 1980. There is not only one good line on a team. Malkin’s opponents are not way inferior to Crosby or Ovi. That’s complete bull****. The only reason Ovi has a better RS than Malkin is because of Malkin’s health. Malkin is far from clearly inferior to Ovechkin.

Also, the main goal of hockey is to win the cup. #71 has three of them. And yeah, Ovi only had 3 Presidents trophy team around him to make some noise in the playoffs... let’s not act that it is all his teammates fault.

I meant clearly inferior at the time of the draft and there's no real argument against that. Approximately zero people had Malkin ahead.

Congrats that he has 3 cups. That just means his team mates stepped up. Yes OV has been on 3 PT winning teams, but check how his team mates performed in the playoffs those years.
09/10: OV 10pts in 7 games. Semin+Green (each PPG in the RS) combined for zero goals. Who's fault they lost? OV's?

15/16: OV 12pts in 12 games. More pts than Crosby and Malkin combined in the caps/pens series. Kuznetsov (77pts RS) gets 2pts all playoffs. The entire 2nd line which combined for 60 goals in the RS scored a huge 6 goals in the playoffs. Who's fault they lost? OV's?

16/17: OV 8pts in 13 games. Admittedly he wasn't great, but considering he was playing with an injured wrist and knee he definitely wasn't bad. You can blame him here though if you want.

So with 2/3 PT winning teams OV did his part in the playoffs, he deserves zero blame. The difference is that OV doesn't have the luxury of being the 5th most important player on his team (like Malkin in 16 playoffs) and having others step up to lead the way. His team mates always disappear in the playoffs, different guys each year.
 
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Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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Really don't know why Washington passed up a elite centre for a winger. Literally the last position you build a team around 13 years later you can see why...

Why on earth would they pass on a generational player?

Man was it stupid for Tallon to pick Kane 1st overall over Kyle Turris. What an idiot!
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,355
16,640
Mulberry Street
Im just saying that Lemieux was/is better than Howe lol..

raw


Who made Murphy and Francis HOFs?

Jagr was far from being relevent in 91 and 92.

Not Lemieux.

Murphy already had a 2nd AST and 3rd place Norris finish before he stepped on the ice at the Igloo, yes some of the higher Norris finishes came while with the Pens but that also coincided with his prime/peak.

As for Francis... he was already a top C before he was traded to PIT.
 

Nadal On Clay

Djokovic > Nadal > Federer
Oct 11, 2017
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I meant clearly inferior at the time of the draft and there's no real argument against that. Approximately zero people had Malkin ahead.

Congrats that he has 3 cups. That just means his team mates stepped up. Yes OV has been on 3 PT winning teams, but check how his team mates performed in the playoffs those years.
09/10: OV 10pts in 7 games. Semin+Green (each PPG in the RS) combined for zero goals. Who's fault they lost? OV's?

15/16: OV 12pts in 12 games. More pts than Crosby and Malkin combined in the caps/pens series. Kuznetsov (77pts RS) gets 2pts all playoffs. The entire 2nd line which combined for 60 goals in the RS scored a huge 6 goals in the playoffs. Who's fault they lost? OV's?

16/17: OV 8pts in 13 games. Admittedly he wasn't great, but considering he was playing with an injured wrist and knee he definitely wasn't bad. You can blame him here though if you want.

So with 2/3 PT winning teams OV did his part in the playoffs, he deserves zero blame. The difference is that OV doesn't have the luxury of being the 5th most important player on his team (like Malkin in 16 playoffs) and having others step up to lead the way. His team mates always disappear in the playoffs, different guys each year.

Someone probably put a magic potion in all of the Caps players cereals at the start of every playoffs. Excluding Ovechkin obviously...
 

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
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Oct 11, 2014
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Whoever says outside of top 30 is absolutely clueless. Even if we ignore everything else, he's most likely going to have 7 rockets after this season. That's the most ever. That automatically puts him top 30. Add the 3 harts and lindsays and everything else and yeah, pretty easy top 30, closer to 20. He needs a cup and/or a couple big playoff runs to crack the top 10 though.

Technically Bobby Hull would have 8 if they retroactively gave the award out. But the Rocket wasn't awarded until the 98/99 season. Probably would have snagged a few more had he stayed in the NHL instead of going to the WHA at 34.
 

KoozNetsOff 92

Hala Madrid
Apr 6, 2016
8,567
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Technically Bobby Hull would have 8 if they retroactively gave the award out. But the Rocket wasn't awarded until the 98/99 season. Probably would have snagged a few more had he stayed in the NHL instead of going to the WHA at 34.

Hull would have 7, 1 of which was shared.
 

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