When will Aaltonen get his shot?

[Nithoniniel]

Don't think Aaltonen has shown nearly enough for the narrative to be that he needs to be included in our current or future plans. The production isn't very impressive given his usage, and the open spot would be in a completely opposite role from what he has on the Marlies. I think his best shot is as a replacement to Bozak, but what he's shown this year doesn't really give you much reason to believe that he can.

 

[thewave]

Don't think Aaltonen has shown nearly enough for the narrative to be that he needs to be included in our current or future plans. The production isn't very impressive given his usage, and the open spot would be in a completely opposite role from what he has on the Marlies. I think his best shot is as a replacement to Bozak, but what he's shown this year doesn't really give you much reason to believe that he can.

Truth be told we don't know, just like we don't know with Leivo or Goat. I am shocked but not shocked about Kapanen getting this long of a shot while he is starting to fall fast to about the point pace of Leivo in this his bad sample(s). Goat was better than Moore, brought in during a slump, that's his shot. Leivo gets the ultimate jerk job. We may as well sell every pick that isn't 1st round because this guy he just won't give them a shake and the organization is in win now keeping all these UFA.

My take away Nith, if you're a bottom 6 player apply elsewhere for a job. You just simply will not be used, that is, unless you show you can grind and we have one of those spots open or injury of course.

Babcock said so himself that he doesn't like dealing with kids pretty much. That's all this is and he said so himself. Chances are Aaltonen will go to Vegas and then Babcock when Aaltonen is 28 will say, I need someone like that on the team.

 

[shaner8989]

Another players that’s being blocked by useless losers like komarov and Moore

 

[Gallagbi]

Truth be told we don't know, just like we don't know with Leivo or Goat. I am shocked but not shocked about Kapanen getting this long of a shot while he is starting to fall fast to about the point pace of Leivo in this his bad sample(s). Goat was better than Moore, brought in during a slump, that's his shot. Leivo gets the ultimate jerk job. We may as well sell every pick that isn't 1st round because this guy he just won't give them a shake and the organization is in win now keeping all these UFA.

My take away Nith, if you're a bottom 6 player apply elsewhere for a job. You just simply will not be used, that is, unless you show you can grind and we have one of those spots open or injury of course.

Babcock said so himself that he doesn't like dealing with kids pretty much. That's all this is and he said so himself. Chances are Aaltonen will go to Vegas and then Babcock when Aaltonen is 28 will say, I need someone like that on the team.

Kapenen has stuck over Leivo because he can PK and get in on the forecheck.

Gauthier was awful and they keep force feeding him opportunities based on their need for a PK and a big body.

 

[Boutette]

Let's be honest. Is Kapanen being used right or is he being jerked around. He had 5 pts in 17 games. They had to use Kapanen, like force of hand, had to for optics at this point. This year should be Lou's year to stock the cupboards or consolidate UFA into picks > Super asset acquisition.

These kids need shots in their proper spots before they all start asking trades. Komarov is done. Polak is done, Bozak has miles left but is done here, JVR should be done here for the season at least.

As others have pointed out, those veterans are getting the 'rental' treatment. I would also hope Borgman is getting plenty of work on the penalty kill on the Marlies in order to step in next year in place of Polak. Yeah, I'd like a clean sweep as well, but as it has also been pointed out, no contending team jettisons their veteran depth heading to the playoffs. Kappanen, even though he is stuck on the 4th line, has energized it to the point that its notable to everyone. Being jerked around would be the Leivo treatment, but honestly, most people on this site don't think much of him, and he's earning as much as anyone in the league would pay him and its still a question whether or not he fits the team. When injuries occur or a player goes off the rails (such as Komarov) like Brown, Kappanen will get a promotion.

Don't think Aaltonen has shown nearly enough for the narrative to be that he needs to be included in our current or future plans. The production isn't very impressive given his usage, and the open spot would be in a completely opposite role from what he has on the Marlies. I think his best shot is as a replacement to Bozak, but what he's shown this year doesn't really give you much reason to believe that he can.

He's 3rd on the best team in the AHL in points per game now, He's 2nd on the best team in the AHL in plus minus (+21 in his last 20 games). He has 10 points in his last 6 games, 18 pts in his last 23. He is outperforming Bozak at about the same age Bozak was promoted to the leafs to be their 1a/1b line center (albeit on a bad Leafs team). He's counted on when the Marlies need to hold lead, and does the job well. He has taken over the #1 center spot on the Marlies after his adjustment period (4pts in his first 11 games). Not impressive, eh?

 

[thewave]

Kapenen has stuck over Leivo because he can PK and get in on the forecheck.

Gauthier was awful and they keep force feeding him opportunities based on their need for a PK and a big body.

I am unsure if you even know the meaning of forecheck sometimes. Leivo is a good hockey player period, always was. He just does not have the wheels of Kapanen and the can't play the PK thing? I don't know, never saw them try it. What has Kapanen done that is so amazing outside dazzle with speed? He didn't look so great last night. Sprong level prospect, nice to have and may be useful.

Gauthier had a stint last year and everyone was praising him and then he had a bad game, he gets sent down right after and we get Boyle. This year, he gets a shot and was doing pretty good during our team wide slump and has a rough night and that was that.

Do you even know how many bad nights Polak has had? Bozak? Komarov? Moore? Carrick? Borgman? Martin omg Martin sheesh. Mikey boy is addicted to GudPro and GudPro 2.0 and you know it. Remember the pain? That's part of a developing rebuild team, you don't throw a player to the wolves because of an off night. FFS bud, can you imagine if Mitch was a 3rd round pick making so many mistakes when he first came in (the Mitch that started this season). He probably would have had the guy traded but thank goodness the big 3 are above Babcock in a sense as far as pecking order goes, he can't jerk them around.

Add: The best part is a Babcock line juggle.. You know the one where he swaps player X for Z for 2 shifts and if it doesn't work goes back to the original dysfunction.

 

[thewave]

As others have pointed out, those veterans are getting the 'rental' treatment. I would also hope Borgman is getting plenty of work on the penalty kill on the Marlies in order to step in next year in place of Polak. Yeah, I'd like a clean sweep as well, but as it has also been pointed out, no contending team jettisons their veteran depth heading to the playoffs. Kappanen, even though he is stuck on the 4th line, has energized it to the point that its notable to everyone. Being jerked around would be the Leivo treatment, but honestly, most people on this site don't think much of him, and he's earning as much as anyone in the league would pay him and its still a question whether or not he fits the team. When injuries occur or a player goes off the rails (such as Komarov) like Brown, Kappanen will get a promotion.



He's 3rd on the best team in the AHL in points per game now, He's 2nd on the best team in the AHL in plus minus (+21 in his last 20 games). He has 10 points in his last 6 games, 18 pts in his last 23. He is outperforming Bozak at about the same age Bozak was promoted to the leafs to be their 1a/1b line center (albeit on a bad Leafs team). He's counted on when the Marlies need to hold lead, and does the job well. He has taken over the #1 center spot on the Marlies after his adjustment period (4pts in his first 11 games). Not impressive, eh?

This is the year to taking these kids into an NHL series and trial by firing them in. Let them play the stretch and get a round in. Trade off the UFA and give them experience and make a decision. That's the best play for us but won't happen. I don't even care if upgrade the D in a big way using every damn pick we get from Komarov, Bozak and JVR to get that D and add on our own.

It's amazing getting the kids PO experience was important for the big 3 but not to this supposedly finished developing team. These kids will get no experience and have to make it or break it next year. So stupid.

 

[Gallagbi]

I am unsure if you even know the meaning of forecheck sometimes.

You're cute wave. Maybe if you werent known as the village idiot around here id be offended.

Leivo is a good hockey player period, always was. He just does not have the wheels of Kapanen and the can't play the PK thing? I don't know, never saw them try it. What has Kapanen done that is so amazing outside dazzle with speed? He didn't look so great last night. Sprong level prospect, nice to have and may be useful.

If you don't understand they are different players filling different roles, then I can't help you.

Gauthier had a stint last year and everyone was praising him and then he had a bad game, he gets sent down right after and we get Boyle. This year, he gets a shot and was doing pretty good during our team wide slump and has a rough night and that was that.

Your Gauthier bias is well known, I'm sure we'll see a big outburst when he is waived in the next year or so.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

We don't you just say Ben Smith should be brought up, because he has the most points.
When promoting a player or trading for a player, the factor is "Who are they going replace? No proof Aaltonen is a better replacement than Moore.

 

[Boutette]

It's amazing getting the kids PO experience was important for the big 3 but not to this supposedly finished developing team. These kids will get no experience and have to make it or break it next year. So stupid.

At the very least the kids will get the experience of pro PO on a deep run with the Marlies and have an excellent chance of winning the Calder Cup. AFAIC 20+ games in the Calder Cup playoff is not *no experience* in my books (but I'm one of those people who scratch my head when people say young players who have extensive PO experience at *every level* of their career have no idea how to play in the playoffs just because they haven't played extensively in the *NHL* playoffs.) Also, its not like other yongsters like Kappanen, Brown, Dermott and any other call up in addition to the top 3 won't get NHL playoff experience this year as well (which will almost certainly be far shorter than what the Marlies will be toughing out). I view it as a compromise, not exactly stupid, because there's not one team in the NHL that behaves otherwise.

 

[Boutette]

We don't you just say Ben Smith should be brought up, because he has the most points.
When promoting a player or trading for a player, the factor is "Who are they going replace? No proof Aaltonen is a better replacement than Moore.

I don't say Ben Smith because in the actual world there's a *difference* between total points and *everything else* I discussed.

 

[thewave]

You're cute wave. Maybe if you werent known as the village idiot around here id be offended.


If you don't understand they are different players filling different roles, then I can't help you.


Your Gauthier bias is well known, I'm sure we'll see a big outburst when he is waived in the next year or so.

The "Village idiot" that ends up being right 9 times out of 10 and has a long standing history of making the right calls. You calling me village idiot is a badge of honor to me considering some of your terribad ideas.

We simply can no gauge players like Leivo, Aaltonen, Johnsson, Goat, Sosh(t), Holl if they don't get ice. I don't care if Goat fails, he needs a proper shot to fail in, 2 games here and 4 games there is not a shot. It's jerked around and nobody that gets jerked around is getting a fair shot.

Things I said this season...

Run and gun has to stop, defensive structure needs instilled... Within 5 games later it happened.
Martin sucks - Martin no longer playing
Komarov is a 4th liner - Komarov is now on the 4th line
Dermott is an NHLer (Pre season) - Now in the NHL
Moore is a terrible C - ((((Fans are now calling for a C upgrade on Moore)))
(There are more things I have been right about but forget them)

Run and gun has to stop again... (Will it???)
Trade UFA for picks and use picks to land Big name D
Nylander to C (Why does Nylander start the game taking a FO against Crosby?)
Kapanen to RW on Matthews line (That's a real shot)
Hyman should not be glued to Matthews wing (No player should enjoy that luxury, it's weird)

 

[thewave]

At the very least the kids will get the experience of pro PO on a deep run with the Marlies and have an excellent chance of winning the Calder Cup. AFAIC 20+ games in the Calder Cup playoff is not *no experience* in my books (but I'm one of those people who scratch my head when people say young players who have extensive PO experience at *every level* of their career have no idea how to play in the playoffs just because they haven't played extensively in the *NHL* playoffs.) Also, its not like other yongsters like Kappanen, Brown, Dermott and any other call up in addition to the top 3 won't get NHL playoff experience this year as well (which will almost certainly be far shorter than what the Marlies will be toughing out). I view it as a compromise, not exactly stupid, because there's not one team in the NHL that behaves otherwise.

I get it man, I do. The point is we have players that absolutely suck taking up spots where we could have already been auditioning these kids and getting a feel for how good they could be. GudPro is anti-accountability, and that was not on the bill of goods when we were sold it.

 

[The Examiner]

This is the year to taking these kids into an NHL series and trial by firing them in. Let them play the stretch and get a round in. Trade off the UFA and give them experience and make a decision. That's the best play for us but won't happen. I don't even care if upgrade the D in a big way using every damn pick we get from Komarov, Bozak and JVR to get that D and add on our own.

It's amazing getting the kids PO experience was important for the big 3 but not to this supposedly finished developing team. These kids will get no experience and have to make it or break it next year. So stupid.

You knew this wasn’t happening once Marleau and Hainsey were signed.

 

[DarkKnight]

Gauthier was really bad his last stint, he got worse every game. I was actually a fan, thought he had promise, but I now believe-injuries aside-we never see him in a Leafs uniform again. I see him either waived or part of a trade.

 

[thewave]

You knew this wasn’t happening once Marleau and Hainsey were signed.

Correction, I should have known. I literally thought they were getting Marleau so they could trade JVR and apparently he was on the block. Hainsey was just a good idea because we were thin on the back and Dermott looked like he could handle being in the NHL in the off season.

The shocking thing was not moving on from Bozak and JVR in the summer. It was a total curveball.

 

[thewave]

Gauthier was really bad his last stint, he got worse every game. I was actually a fan, thought he had promise, but I now believe-injuries aside-we never see him in a Leafs uniform again. I see him either waived or part of a trade.

The last 2 games were not good but neither was the team. He did stand out his last game and if that's it oh well f*** it, move on. It's not like it's a big deal.

 

[Boutette]

I get it man, I do. The point is we have players that absolutely suck taking up spots where we could have already been auditioning these kids and getting a feel for how good they could be. GudPro is anti-accountability, and that was not on the bill of goods when we were sold it.

Well, there's accountability and there's throwing the baby out with the bath water. Anti-accountability? Be fair. Komarov demoted, Martin in the pressbox, Van Riemsdyk and Bozak TOI being steadily reduced is hardly anti-accountability. Dermott and Kapanen playing every game is hardly anti-accountability. Hyman still playing with Matthews? well, he's already scored more points than all last year and is among the team leaders in 5v5 scoring, so that too figures into accountability, does it not? And, fact is, our third line doesn't *absolutely suck* compared to third lines across the league. If it did, we wouldn't be where we are in the standings. But everyone except those who have mancrushes on JVR (especially) and Bozak agree they have to go, and Babcock clearly thinks that as well IFIAC, when taking in Babcock's history with the Red Wings, he's been practically bending over backwards to playing youngsters.

Currently what we have is managing the roster that the teams has conservatively from my perspective. I agree its not the ideal situation for auditioning, but as long as there's a chance we can move up on Boston or maybe even take the division if Tampa plateaus and regresses, then that's what's going to happen, and is to be expected. Say we jettison Bozak and JVR, but Aaltonen Johnsson get injured. Well, both the Leafs and the Marlies are screwed. Want that? And remember, Brown (7g), Marner, Zeitsev, Borgman, Dermott, Kapanen etc. didn't really get auditions either last year and they made the team this year. I think with a strong finish and a good Calder Cup run, Aaltonen, Johnson and one or two others will be up next year to replace our mediocre 3rd line and other areas. Its what happened last year and this year. No reason to expect it won't continue. Will we miss out on draft picks, sure, but team management has shown with many the likes of Zeitsev, Borgman, Aaltonen and Johnsson, that high end draft picks aren't the only source of good players.

 

[Dog]

His time should come along with Johnsson to get a chance.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Not impressive, eh?

Nope. What those numbers tell us is that if he was employed in offensive usage at the NHL level, he would be around a 25 point forward. For a guy in his prime with offense being part of his appeal, that's not particularly impressive at all.

Generally speaking, if a forward is in his prime and is not around PPG at the AHL level, chances are very low that he will be able to be productive at the NHL level.

 

[rent free]

Because your not winning **** with that blueline no matter how much people around here want to believe in miracles

We're not winning this year regardless of anything.

 

[Boutette]

Generally speaking, if a forward is in his prime and is not around PPG at the AHL level, chances are very low that he will be able to be productive at the NHL level.

Well its good that since acclimatizing to NA ice (which took around 10 games) that's exactly what he's been accomplishing.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

We're not winning this year regardless of anything.

You mean that the if Leafs acquired Tanev or McDonagh (the list goes on) they wouldn't be Cup Finalists?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Well its good that since acclimatizing to NA ice (which took around 10 games) that's exactly what he's been accomplishing.

True that, but when I have watched them, he's come across as the third link on his unit. Though to be fair, I haven't felt like that at all as much lately as I did earlier. It might be that he needed some time to adjust.

 

[deletethis]

One thing for sure: if he doesn't get an audition this season, he ain't coming back to play for the Marlies next season. He can make a lot more money in the KHL. IMO Aaltonen would look a tad bit slow at the NHL level.