When will Aaltonen get his shot?

[ManosArriba]

Nope. What those numbers tell us is that if he was employed in offensive usage at the NHL level, he would be around a 25 point forward. For a guy in his prime with offense being part of his appeal, that's not particularly impressive at all.

Generally speaking, if a forward is in his prime and is not around PPG at the AHL level, chances are very low that he will be able to be productive at the NHL level.

Weren't people saying the same thing about Kapanen's production when he first got here? I know he was much younger but a lot of people had written him off. I like Altonen, he plays a good 2 way game, he would be a definite upgrade over Bozak right now.

 

[Boutette]

One thing for sure: if he doesn't get an audition this season, he ain't coming back to play for the Marlies next season. He can make a lot more money in the KHL. IMO Aaltonen would look a tad bit slow at the NHL level.

If he doesn't get promoted and the Leafs wanted to keep him, all they'd need to do is give him a one-way contract as they have with Smith, LoVerde and Mueller. Not like they can't afford it.

 

[thewave]

True that, but when I have watched them, he's come across as the third link on his unit. Though to be fair, I haven't felt like that at all as much lately as I did earlier. It might be that he needed some time to adjust.

There is more to player analysis than just looking at some AHL stats. A lot of guys use their eyes and see how they do with different players as well. Stats is not all telling, if it were all players would be accurately evaluated and everything with development would be on a conveyor belt and perfect set for market. Some players get the NHL better than the AHL because their mates can't process the game like them. They get in with some NHL players and suddenly they perform. It happens a lot and is why I argue until I am red in the face that you need to give the good AHL guys a damn real shot on a real line at some point or just never ever develop 3rd liners, forget it, trade them and try and always get 3rd or less in the vet variety from the market.

Babcock does not want to give the appropriate time or opportunities to fringe 2nd liners who could be 3rd liners, but we don't know for sure. They are rushing the rebuild, expect a lot of prospects to be traded because there are no spots and never will be with the hold UFA attitude and win now.

After this season do you expect them to take a step back and try and win with Leivo, Johnsson, Aaltonen? Fat chance, they are going to sign someone as good as JVR or JVR again and MAYBE even a replacement for Bozak leaving an opportunity for a 4th line winger and 4th line C (Who Babcock will never trust as a rookie while trying to win now, so a new C will get brought in).

 

[thewave]

Weren't people saying the same thing about Kapanen's production when he first got here? I know he was much younger but a lot of people had written him off. I like Altonen, he plays a good 2 way game, he would be a definite upgrade over Bozak right now.

This is the thing. In Babcocks eyes you can't play Leivo in Martin's spot because f***ed if I know he is too good a possession player? I don't know it's weird. Komarov is done but they don't want to admit it.

He just does not trust young players unless he has to. On Kapanen, he hasn't even been as productive in the NHL as Leivo with his freaking YoYo stints. He does have speed though and did come for Kessel, yep, gotta make sure that looks good while Kessel is a PPG+ player.

A lot is optics and pedigree with this administration.

 

[Boutette]

After this season do you expect them to take a step back and try and win with Leivo, Johnsson, Aaltonen? Fat chance, they are going to sign someone as good as JVR or JVR again and MAYBE even a replacement for Bozak leaving an opportunity for a 4th line winger and 4th line C (Who Babcock will never trust as a rookie while trying to win now, so a new C will get brought in).

Except that doesn't work, the leafs tried that before and look what happened. You can't just keep piling in expensive veteran UFAs on your 3rd and 4th lines or you can't afford to resign your stars. You have to do what every other successful team does and try to win with your top ELC players replacing departing veterans. Just look at Tampa and Boston etc.

 

[thewave]

Except that doesn't work. You can't just keep piling in expensive veteran UFAs on your 3rd and 4th lines or you can't afford to resign your stars. You have to do what every other successful team does and try to win with your top ELC players. Just look at Tampa and Boston.

I know that, that's why I go red in the face pointing it out all the freaking time. There is a healthy bunch at HFBoards with the correct mindset and the ultimate question is... Do the big cheese share it over @ MLSE HQ... We won the polls even, trade and get a big time D, pay extra just get a signed player thats a clear upgrade like EK or Doughty, someone if you can. That's where it's at, losing UFA for nothing and not shots given to relatively good players is DEVELOPMENT CYCLE SUICIDE.

 

[Boutette]

I know that, that's why I go red in the face pointing it out all the freaking time. There is a healthy bunch at HFBoards with the correct mindset and the ultimate question is... Do the big cheese share it over @ MLSE HQ... We won the polls even, trade and get a big time D, pay extra just get a signed player thats a clear upgrade like EK or Doughty, someone if you can. That's where it's at, losing UFA for nothing and not shots given to relatively good players is DEVELOPMENT CYCLE SUICIDE.

Sure, but the Leafs are likely to grab some mid-round draft picks for the rights for JVR and Bozak post playoffs at the very least so they aren't losing them for nothing. Plus, its been proven that a good scouting core that you spend money on can make up for not dumping all your UFAs at the trade deadline. Free wallets with potential like Zaitsev, Borgman & Aaltonen. Good later round picks like Johnsson and Brown etc. Its not suicide if you spend the money you have in ares other teams can't afford to, which the Leafs can. And they clearly are doing this because, guess what, they *have* been doing this and it has been a success, so why would they suddenly pull a 180?

 

[thewave]

Sure, but the Leafs are likely to grab some mid-round draft picks for the rights for JVR and Bozak post playoffs at the very least so they aren't losing them for nothing. Plus, its been proven that a good scouting core that you spend money on can make up for not dumping all your UFAs at the trade deadline. Free wallets with potential like Zaitsev, Borgman & Aaltonen. Good later round picks like Johnsson and Brown etc. Its not suicide if you spend the money you have in ares other teams can't afford to, which the Leafs can. And they clearly are doing this because, guess what, they *have* been doing this and it has been a success, so why would they suddenly pull a 180?

Dude we have just proven that we are not utilizing those later round picks. They are all going to walk because Babcock will not give them a real shot. He defers to VETS and thats it. I know you think people are going to pay mid round picks for BOZAK?! He will make it to market and that's it, MAAAAYBE JVR will get snagged for the conversation but not likely either. You either sell and get a clear upgrade at position of need while affording opportunity to kids that are ready for a fair chance ~or~ You just keep trading all those late picks(Leivo Bracco etc) away after trying them 5 games, but don't worry if a grinder comes along we will keep that.

Best day in this season will see the trade of JVR Bozak Polak and a trade for a Doughty level player for D while giving the Nod to Nylander at C and a chance for some other kids in better positions.

 

[Trapper]

Dude we have just proven that we are not utilizing those later round picks. They are all going to walk because Babcock will not give them a real shot. He defers to VETS and thats it. I know you think people are going to pay mid round picks for BOZAK?! He will make it to market and that's it, MAAAAYBE JVR will get snagged for the conversation but not likely either. You either sell and get a clear upgrade at position of need while affording opportunity to kids that are ready for a fair chance ~or~ You just keep trading all those late picks(Leivo Bracco etc) away after trying them 5 games, but don't worry if a grinder comes along we will keep that.

Best day in this season will see the trade of JVR Bozak Polak and a trade for a Doughty level player for D while giving the Nod to Nylander at C and a chance for some other kids in better positions.

Again JVR should have been moved in the summer for a high pick + a player who could help offset the loss of both Bozak/JVR to UFA. No matter what you say, that's 2/3rds of a 3rd line gone. It's not just JVR leaving without replacement. I can't expect unknown and unproven Aaltonen to assume 3rd line duties. Someone who can play 3C and LW (a Brown type) would have been ideal in a move.
Then this summer you move on from Gardiner the same. You can sign a Green for a year or two to balance this until you can run at a big 19 fish like McD,Doughty,Karlsson,OEL. If not, you are drafting and developing more with the picks from above.
A Rielly/Hainsey, Dermott/Green, Borgman/Zaitsev is good for the interim.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Weren't people saying the same thing about Kapanen's production when he first got here? I know he was much younger but a lot of people had written him off. I like Altonen, he plays a good 2 way game, he would be a definite upgrade over Bozak right now.

Yeah, difference is that Kapanen was at an age where only prospects of the Nylander-class produces at a high rate in the AHL. Aaltonen is entering his prime.

It'll be interesting to see if Aaltonen gets a shot at the 3C slot next year. My expectation is that they bring in someone who can compete with him for that spot, and the loser gets drawn into a battle for #4C with Gauthier, if he is still in the organization at that point.

 

[Mess]

Kapanen -- Aatonen -- Brown = 3rd line next year potentially.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I do not believe he will, I do believe a deal for Luke Glendening or somebody else will eventually happen which takes a spot this year and I do think that if he hits UFA in July they will target Joe Thornton again and I am sure they will make n offer on July 1 to Tavares if given the chance because everybody will.

Point is either way I do not think he gets a shot.

 

[rent free]

Kapanen -- Aatonen -- Brown = 3rd line next year potentially.

why wouldn't aaltonen play on the 4th line next season? why would immediately go to the 3rd line?

 

[Mess]

why wouldn't aaltonen play on the 4th line next season? why would immediately go to the 3rd line?

Bozak internal replacement with Freddy G competing for the 4th to replace Moore.

He might not make the team at all, who knows at this point as to what might be in store this summer.

 

[nuck]

I expect to see Aaltonen and Johnsson up for a look shortly, same as they have done for others in the past. If either was going to slot in for a current player they are almost out of time with just 4 games to the deadline. They have wingers with the club they might put in for JVR but no potential Boz replacement that would make him expendable. Glendening is barely an upgrade on Moore and in no way capable of playing top 9. I think they keep Boz and lose him in the summer unless there is a hockey trade to be made for a C. Aaltonen should get a cup of coffee but that's it for this year. Can't earn a coaches trust in 4 games.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I expect to see Aaltonen and Johnsson up for a look shortly, same as they have done for others in the past. If either was going to slot in for a current player they are almost out of time with just 4 games to the deadline. They have wingers with the club they might put in for JVR but no potential Boz replacement that would make him expendable. Glendening is barely an upgrade on Moore and in no way capable of playing top 9. I think they keep Boz and lose him in the summer unless there is a hockey trade to be made for a C. Aaltonen should get a cup of coffee but that's it for this year. Can't earn a coaches trust in 4 games.

Why would they call anybody up? The players in the lineup are better than what they have on the farm, so why replace them?

 

[Menzinger]

Babcock sung his praises in preseason interviews, I think he’s going to get a reasonable look with the team next season

 

[david999]

Babcock sung his praises in preseason interviews, I think he’s going to get a reasonable look with the team next season

Babcock was also praising Soshnikov and the Goat in pre-season, but neither got a fair shot. Eric Fehr was also cast off, even though the Leafs had a winning record whenever he played on the 4th line.

 

[Kiwi]

Because the goal is to get better, not worse.

If hurting this season helps fix the backend longer term it would be well worth doing while we're still significant outsiders to win this season

The biggest problem I can see is the coaches reluctance to give kids a fair shot. Goat was better than Moore, had a bad game and that was it. Sometimes he tries guys on a line for 2 shifts, talk about sample size. He is just uncomfortable with kids period. Nylander can be skating around PPG, not as good as Bozak though. We are thin at C, we need a good C developing but win now and all.

There is being cautious and then there is Babcock.

I don't understand the reluctance to play the young guys either, especially when you look at how our call-ups have performed when given the opportunity

 

[Al14]

We don't need Aatonen! Apparently, Jumbo Joe is on the way!

 

[Buds17]

Hopeful he can win the 4C spot to start next season. Bonus if we can fit him in for some games prior to that.

 

[GodEmperor]

Why would he get a shot, he's not even gud.

 

[nuck]

Why would they call anybody up? The players in the lineup are better than what they have on the farm, so why replace them?

We don't actually know how Johnsson compares to a lot of guys on the team. He might be able to take Komorov's spot right now, or kick Leivo down the pecking order. But I'm not necessarily talking about replacing someone in the lineup long term, just giving the prospects a taste like they did with Brown. If somebody gets hurt it might be nice to have the fill-in already having been exposed to the NHL pace. The more experience they have, the more likely they are to step in and help when needed.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

If hurting this season helps fix the backend longer term it would be well worth doing while we're still significant outsiders to win this season

Replacing Bozak with Aaltonen is not a long term fix to our backend.

I don't understand the reluctance to play the young guys either, especially when you look at how our call-ups have performed when given the opportunity

Our top 6 is 66% sophomores. Kapanen and Dermott have made their way into full time roster positions. There is no reluctance to play young guys. There is reluctance to throw away veterans who can help shelter the kids when they go through slumps.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is the thing. In Babcocks eyes you can't play Leivo in Martin's spot because ****ed if I know he is too good a possession player? I don't know it's weird. Komarov is done but they don't want to admit it.

He just does not trust young players unless he has to. On Kapanen, he hasn't even been as productive in the NHL as Leivo with his freaking YoYo stints. He does have speed though and did come for Kessel, yep, gotta make sure that looks good while Kessel is a PPG+ player.

A lot is optics and pedigree with this administration.

Wow! Go shake yer pillow! Thats not true!!