I'd hope to get at least two bologna sandwiches, though..trade his rights for a bologna sandwich
Helm got close enough and do Abby's points in November not count? Third line production may not be consistent but when Abby and Helm are cold offensively they're still playing a good defensive game, that's the value in them.35 points is something we might be pretty hard pressed to pull from Helm or Gator. Helm's never done it, and Gator rode an insane November to it this year. I don't necessarily disagree with the concept of taking the gritty, two way as long as they actually produce that, but I'm not sure we have those guys. At least not with Gator and Helm.
Helm got close enough and do Abby's points in November not count? Third line production may not be consistent but when Abby and Helm are cold offensively they're still playing a good defensive game, that's the value in them.
Close only counts in horseshoes, Nick. And while November points count, it also stands out as an anomaly on Gator's season. Hence, why I wouldn't count on him to put up 35 points again. Keep letting the standards for offensive production slip on these gritty two way guys and instead of replacing the 45 point guy with a couple of 35 pointers who bring other stuff to the game, we're replacing him with Luke Glendening.
No one is questioning the other parts of Gator and Helm's games. But if we're going to look at leaning on guys who produce a bit less, they have to be able to be relied on to at least consistently produce that. Two things I'm sorta surprised haven't been brought up is that Athanasiou hasn't held up his end of the argument, either, coming no where close to 45 points. And while Gator was productive two of the past three years, he's also been a -47 over those three years. Helm has been just a -5.
A complete sandwich? Ha! You got fleeced! I would have settled for a hard roll with ketchup inside.trade his rights for a bologna sandwich
I don't think it's luck that causes Abdelkader to produce in bunches, I think it's the fact that he produces when he plays with Z or Larkin. When he's put on their line he goes on a streak, when he's in the bottom 6 he doesn't produce. I don't see inconsistency there, I just see a support player who's production is a product of his line mates (and you need a couple of those players, our problem is we're paying Abby @2mil too much). Helm was the same way. If one of those guys plays in the top 6 again they will probably replicate their season. If they're put in the bottom 6 they won't. I don't see them as the problem with this team, they are what they are. The problem (at least up front) is that we have no game-breaking forwards.Close only counts in horseshoes, Nick. And while November points count, it also stands out as an anomaly on Gator's season. Hence, why I wouldn't count on him to put up 35 points again. Keep letting the standards for offensive production slip on these gritty two way guys and instead of replacing the 45 point guy with a couple of 35 pointers who bring other stuff to the game, we're replacing him with Luke Glendening.
No one is questioning the other parts of Gator and Helm's games. But if we're going to look at leaning on guys who produce a bit less, they have to be able to be relied on to at least consistently produce that. Two things I'm sorta surprised haven't been brought up is that Athanasiou hasn't held up his end of the argument, either, coming no where close to 45 points. And while Gator was productive two of the past three years, he's also been a -47 over those three years. Helm has been just a -5.
No.. don't you see, we need to have cap space so we can take on cap dumps... for example, instead of trading a depth veteran for a 3rd round pick it would be much better to have cap space, take on a cap dump and get a 3rd round pick as payment... it's better, because of reasons... reasons no one has yet to be able to explain, but it has to be better, somehow. Also, Teuvo Terevainen. If we have cap space we can get him, or so I've heard. Flexibility. Have you heard that word? It's crucial. Gotta be flexible.. so people can play pretend GM on capgeek. Or so we can have the "flexibility" of being forced to insert young players that aren't ready, the true mark of a team that has options.If you're rebuilding, going through the draft, I seriously don't see how you need to be very flexible on cap when rebuild pretty much implies nothing but entry-level contracts.
No.. don't you see, we need to have cap space so we can take on cap dumps... for example, instead of trading a depth veteran for a 3rd round pick it would be much better to have cap space, take on a cap dump and get a 3rd round pick as payment... it's better, because of reasons... reasons no one has yet to be able to explain, but it has to be better, somehow. Also, Teuvo Terevainen. If we have cap space we can get him, or so I've heard. Flexibility. Have you heard that word? It's crucial. Gotta be flexible.. so people can play pretend GM on capgeek. Or so we can have the "flexibility" of being forced to insert young players that aren't ready, the true mark of a team that has options.
No.. don't you see, we need to have cap space so we can take on cap dumps... for example, instead of trading a depth veteran for a 3rd round pick it would be much better to have cap space, take on a cap dump and get a 3rd round pick as payment... it's better, because of reasons... reasons no one has yet to be able to explain, but it has to be better, somehow. Also, Teuvo Terevainen. If we have cap space we can get him, or so I've heard. Flexibility. Have you heard that word? It's crucial. Gotta be flexible.. so people can play pretend GM on capgeek. Or so we can have the "flexibility" of being forced to insert young players that aren't ready, the true mark of a team that has options.
Except the three other players took major steps forward this year. The only one that took their bigger role and fumbled was AA. After making a huge show of his contract and after having a history of trying to play his own way and doing what he wants. And his end of season his comments to the press showed he had no ability to take responsibility for his poor production.
I have no idea how people can call Blashill out this season. This team was going to finish at the bottom no matter how you cut it. But, under him Larkin had 63 points, Mantha had 24 goals, and little Bert was 0.5 ppg. And to say the players don't trust or like him is just baseless. Unless you have proof that the players don't like him quit trying to shift blame away from AA and onto others.
Well here is the thing, AA wasn't getting a far market value for himself. I don't blame him for sitting out the start of the season. Although he waited so long it bit him in the ass. Perhaps Red Wings should pay him like the other 30 points guys on the team Helm, Abbie, Nielsen, Tatar in the 4-5 million range. (I am making an obvious joke here, incase it is not clear)
Mantha was scoring at same pace as the previous season. The improvement is where? Obviously putting that extra ice-time to good use.
Increase any players ice-time to 20 minutes a game (Larkin) and their offensive numbers will improve. He did have a great showing this year.
I will give you a secret to Red Wing games. If Detroit is losing after 2 periods, just stop watching.
Detroit were 1-32-5 when trailing after 2 periods.
Indeed, AA was still in the exploitative ELC contract without arbitration rights. Sure AA is 1-dimensional but so are guys like Vanek. I'd prefer to watch AA play over Helm and Abdul-qadeer.AA was is still under team control. And for his skill set he would have to score 60 points to deserve 5 million a season even as a UFA. So its not an apt comparison.
As for Mantha, the per 60 stats usually deflate with more time, the fact that they stayed nearly the same with more ice time is actually an improvement. AA on the other hand took a step backwards with more time. Just increasing their ice time doesn't ensure they will do better, and its doubly bad when a player is one dimensional at his best and a waste of a roster space most of the time.
Hence, the per 60 stat generally increases with ice-time because they get more opportunities to score.
Points per 60 almost never stays the same, let alone increases with more time. It’s a stat that both because of the inherent properties of how stats work and way the level of competition changes with usage tends to favor small sample sizes. And while I’m sure AA would score marginally more points with more ice time, there are two reasons why giving him more ice time would be a poor decision. First because the amount his scoring will go up already has been shown will be at a diminishing rate per minute of extra ice time. He’s already hit diminishing returns on his production. Second because when he’s on the ice against other teams top talent it’s going to lead to more goals against. Meaning it’s almost certainly a wash or worse a net negative to play him more minutes because he may create 5 more goals a season playing 18 minutes but he’ll also cause there to be 10 more goals scored against.Indeed, AA was still in the exploitative ELC contract without arbitration rights. Sure AA is 1-dimensional but so are guys like Vanek. I'd prefer to watch AA play over Helm and Abdul-qadeer.
Think you misunderstood me about Mantha.
Their points per game is identical over past 2 seasons.
In general, the #1 factor contributing to number of points scored is ice-time. Give almost any NHL forward 20 minutes a game and they will get around 50 points per season at a minimum. Hence, the per 60 stat generally increases with ice-time because they get more opportunities to score. Unless they play significant PK minutes, than that number will drop. Maybe low-skill guys like Ott/Abdelkader willl stop at 40 but their season numbers increased.
Traveled to Windsor for Poutine fest this weekend. Across river from Detroit.
Looks like your whipping boy of AA is on several billboards advertising season tickets.
I will give you a secret to Red Wing games. If Detroit is losing after 2 periods, just stop watching.
Detroit were 1-32-5 when trailing after 2 periods.
Here is a novel idea... Move out the damn management.Package him up with some of our extra picks to move up in the draft. If he does end up coming back and the relationship between management and AA continues to be rocky, then move him out. No need to hold onto a player who won't buy into the system (even though Trashill sucks) and show no effort on the ice for the majority of the season.
Damn, by that logic guys like Vanek and Tarasenko should have been out of the league years ago.Points per 60 almost never stays the same, let alone increases with more time. It’s a stat that both because of the inherent properties of how stats work and way the level of competition changes with usage tends to favor small sample sizes. And while I’m sure AA would score marginally more points with more ice time, there are two reasons why giving him more ice time would be a poor decision. First because the amount his scoring will go up already has been shown will be at a diminishing rate per minute of extra ice time. He’s already hit diminishing returns on his production. Second because when he’s on the ice against other teams top talent it’s going to lead to more goals against. Meaning it’s almost certainly a wash or worse a net negative to play him more minutes because he may create 5 more goals a season playing 18 minutes but he’ll also cause there to be 10 more goals scored against.
Damn, by that logic guys like Vanek and Tarasenko should have been out of the league years ago.
Hell, Yzerman was one of the WORST players defensively for the first 10+ years of his career.
Damn, by that logic guys like Vanek and Tarasenko should have been out of the league years ago.
Hell, Yzerman was one of the WORST players defensively for the first 10+ years of his career.