What makes Tavares a better talent than Schroeder?

[the_speedster]

I didn't even trash Tavares, i've already acknowledged he's Canadas best player.

But you can't tell me he's physical...because he's not, at all.

It's funny how some ppl pee on Schroeders talent saying he wouldn't have made Canada as a 16 year old...umm last year he had a pretty damn good showing, and he's following it up by carrying his line, one of which was a top 3 pick who is 2 years older.

First Schroeder was 17 by last years impressive WJC, not 16. Would he have made the team canada in his 16th year (from the playing in the USNTP?? Not a chance... Did the USA have a talent of jordan's level in their system.. of course not, so he had to be picked. Now did hockey canada have people as good or better in 2006/2007? yep

 

[MN_Gopher]

Yes team USA would've given a 14yr old john tavares a VERY VERY long look

I am not sure how the lines worked out. But in 06 it was Mueller, Oshie, Gerbe, Wheeler, Ryan, Skille, Kessel, Porter, Bourque, Schremp the last 4 were second year gys. Leaving mostly 4th line role. I see no way Tavares gets a long look or any look at all.

Last year. If i remember right, Cannot remember the game But USA had to kill a 5-3. Who was the only forward out there. Schroeder.

We will never know. But Schroeder would have had a chance playing for Canada last year. Had he been Canadian and all.

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

I'd be curious to know what could lead you to that conclusion.

It's not a conclusion. I'm acknowledging that the argument that Schroeder is having a better tournament than Tavares is entirely valid. I'm also acknowledging that the argument can be made the other way, in favor of Tavares.

But if you want to discuss validity we can. I don't know if you've watched the last two USA games, but Schroeder's performances speak for themselves.

I kid you not, he facilitated half of the 8 goals scored in the Germany game.

He then went on to score 2 of the fanciest goals you'll see against the Czech, beating them 4-3; notching an assist in the process.

He's carrying one of the most highly touted lines in USA WJC history. A line that was pretty much supposed to be carrying him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTAFkwyhTNk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfmgJAOp2o

Schroeder's arguably having the most outstanding tournament thus far and to deny him of that argument is downright criminal.

 

[the_speedster]

Results are results. Don't get me wrong because I love what Schroeder is doing for Team USA, but 5 goals and 9 points in 3 games is not bad when he's leading the tournament, no matter how he got them. It doesn't have to be pretty like Schroeder's hard-working, speedy, and gritty style, but a goal is a goal.

I'd still take Tavares ahead of Schroeder. But I'm sure Schroeder is doing some leap-frogging over other prospects in this tournament. And I'm not saying they're not in the same league either. But just because Tavares has been under a micro-scope for so long even people are trying to find ways to measure they're favorite prospect against Tavares.

See what that does there? Tavares has set the benchmark. That's how much respect he gets as a prospect-- you wanna measure how good you're doing, look at Tavares.

schroeder is definately threatening for the number 3pick. Unless somehow he leaves every other prospect in the dust and utterly embarassed tavares and hedman in a head to head he will go no higher.

Number 3 overall is nothing to sneeze at, specially for a kid who's had his size thrown in his face for a while

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

Results are results. Don't get me wrong because I love what Schroeder is doing for Team USA, but 5 goals and 9 points in 3 games is not bad when he's leading the tournament, no matter how he got them. It doesn't have to be pretty like Schroeder's hard-working, speedy, and gritty style, but a goal is a goal.

I'd still take Tavares ahead of Schroeder. But I'm sure Schroeder is doing some leap-frogging over other prospects in this tournament. And I'm not saying they're not in the same league either. But just because Tavares has been under a micro-scope for so long even people are trying to find ways to measure they're favorite prospect against Tavares.

See what that does there? Tavares has set the benchmark. That's how much respect he gets as a prospect-- you wanna measure how good you're doing, look at Tavares.

That's exactly it. Tavares is an elite prospect and I don't think anyone here would suggest otherwise. Albeit, when other elite prospects start sprouting up it begs the question.

How does this newfound elite prospect compare to Tavares? And if Tavares is exceedingly better than said elite prospect, what makes it so?

 

[the_speedster]

I am not sure how the lines worked out. But in 06 it was Mueller, Oshie, Gerbe, Wheeler, Ryan, Skille, Kessel, Porter, Bourque, Schremp the last 4 were second year gys. Leaving mostly 4th line role. I see no way Tavares gets a long look or any look at all.
Last year. If i remember right, Cannot remember the game But USA had to kill a 5-3. Who was the only forward out there. Schroeder.

We will never know. But Schroeder would have had a chance playing for Canada last year. Had he been Canadian and all.

at 14yr old I wouldn't see the kid as ready for anything more than a 4th line/13th forward "get some experience" role..

would team usa have taken 14yr old"american" john tavares that would dominate a canadian junior A league, if allowed to play a whole season. over such fourth line stalwarts as Geoff Paukovich, and Nate Davis? I think so.

 

[shortshorts]

The fact that PROFESSIONAL scouts rank him higher than Shroeder means something. You can go ask them, rather than argue with other posters who know probably just as much as you or less.

Both Shroeder and Tavares are elite prospects and the Draft Ranking will be shuffled but I believe Hedman Tavares will still be 1,2

My predictions.

Kane goes back down. Shroeder moves in around kanes spot. Duschene goes back but stays into top 10.

*and the fact that he's only get goals on the PP.
1) No chemistry between his linemates
2) no one on that line has been finishing as often as they would like.

Only player that he's had chemistry 5v5 is Benn. butt that Benn line is doing extremely well Pat Quinn isn't splitting it up to cater Tavares. therefore you see alot of Tavares trying to do it alone.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But if you want to discuss validity we can. I don't know if you've watched the last two USA games, but Schroeder's performances speak for themselves.

I kid you not, he facilitated half of the 8 goals scored in the Germany game.

He then went on to score 2 of the fanciest goals you'll see against the Czech and notched an assist in the process.

He's carrying one of the most highly touted lines in USA WJC history that's supposed to be carrying him, using him for the outlet pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTAFkwyhTNk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfmgJAOp2o

Schroeder's arguably having the most outstanding tournament thus far and to deny him of that argument is downright criminal.

I watched USA's game against Germany.

Schroeder played very well (and I truly like the kid to go top 5), but I haven't seen anything to suggest he'd warrant mention above Tavares. JT's been crucial every step of the way for Team Canada and leads the tourney in goals and points. Can't ask for more than that.

I'm sure Schroeder's goals against the Czechs were impressive. Unfortunately, style points don't count, and as much as Schroeder hasn't been carried by Van Riemsdyk and Wilson, I'm sure Tavares wouldn't mind trading linemates and seeing what he could do with two top 10 draftees instead of Esposito and DiDomenico 5-on-5.

 

[the_speedster]

I'm sure Tavares wouldn't mind trading linemates and seeing what he could do with two top 10 draftees instead of Esposito and DiDomenico 5-on-5.

Can you imagine john tavares' excitement every morning. as he jumps out of bed, throws his hands into the air and exclaims

"I'm playing on a line with Angelo Esposito!!!!"

 

[shortshorts]

Also the fact where, he's lead the scoring lead 1 year, fixed his defensive play one year. and then worked on his passing one year leading his League in points and in those categories isn't a thing to be looked over.

 

[Sorry]

Unfortunately, style points don't count...

These goals aren't being talked about because of their "style points". They were shots that would be scored on pretty much any goalie in the world and weren't the result of any set up. He scored these goals on his own and they were damn impressive.

 

[________]

I don't think Schroeder has moved up yet because of the World Juniors performance against Germany and the Czech Republic.
The big games will be against Canada then after that.
If he plays great in those games then he'll move up also I think he'll move up if he finishes the college season strong.

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

The fact that PROFESSIONAL scouts rank him higher than Shroeder means something. You can go ask them, rather than argue with other posters who know probably just as much as you or less.

How about the fact that hardly anyone was putting Schroeder top ten before this tournament? Scouts were putting Schroeder at seven, do you think that will stick come January?

All you keep saying is "scouts say Tavares is better than he is so he obv is." I understand, they examine players more thoroughly than the average spectator; but just because the ISS makes a ranking doesn't make it law. They aren't know-alls. New things are revealed as time progresses. Some players shine and some players falter in new circumstances. If that weren't the case, rankings wouldn't change month to month and Schroeder would've been placed 3rd in the ISS last July.

 

[Le Golie]

What does Schroeder do that Tavares can't?

Nothing.

Tavares is bigger, stronger, more of a presence in high traffic areas and a better 'thinker' out there.

Tavares doesn't need to control every shift to be effective. He just flat out produces no matter what you try to do to stop him. He's just smarter and has more scoring ability than 99.9% of the players he plays against and you can not notice him during the game, but he'll still put up three or four points.

I love Schroeder's skill, he's a top ten guy in any draft, but he's no Tavares.

 

[Sorry]

I don't think Schroeder has moved up yet because of the World Juniors performance against Germany and the Czech Republic.

If he didn't move up, Tavares moved down.

 

[MN_Gopher]

at 14yr old I wouldn't see the kid as ready for anything more than a 4th line/13th forward "get some experience" role..

would team usa have taken 14yr old"american" john tavares that would dominate a canadian junior A league, if allowed to play a whole season. over such fourth line stalwarts as Geoff Paukovich, and Nate Davis? I think so.

The 4th in a tourney is the shut down line. Or at least guys that can play PK. Would a 14 year old Tavares played better defensivly than Paukovich or Davis?

Kane and JVR at 16 did not make the 06 team. Just to use as 4th line guys.

 

[Randall Graves*]

The fact that PROFESSIONAL scouts rank him higher than Shroeder means something. You can go ask them, rather than argue with other posters who know probably just as much as you or less.

Both Shroeder and Tavares are elite prospects and the Draft Ranking will be shuffled but I believe Hedman Tavares will still be 1,2

My predictions.

Kane goes back down. Shroeder moves in around kanes spot. Duschene goes back but stays into top 10.

*and the fact that he's only get goals on the PP.
1) No chemistry between his linemates
2) no one on that line has been finishing as often as they would like.

Only player that he's had chemistry 5v5 is Benn. butt that Benn line is doing extremely well Pat Quinn isn't splitting it up to cater Tavares. therefore you see alot of Tavares trying to do it alone.

Because Pro scouts are always right?

Would anyone here seriously take Stamkos over Doughty?

Weren't a bunch of scouts low on Pat Kane to?

 

[Le Golie]

Would anyone here seriously take Stamkos over Doughty?

Huh, wha?

Are you straight faced in saying that because, in the first 30 games of their 20 year career Doughty has been more 'ready', not one person involved in hockey would make the decision that was absolutely consensus a few months ago? Huh, wha?

I can guaran*******tee you that +95% of the real hockey people that had Stamkos over Doughty six months ago feel the same way today.

 

[shortshorts]

I really don't think there's alot separating Tavares and Schroeder and the other top 10 forwards. From what i've seen of Tavares outside this tournament and Schroeder in this tournament.

I was just stating Tavares is ranked over Schroeder for a reason by the scouts.

If i were to see just this tournament i would've taken Schroeder in a heart beat. but seeing Tavares dominate every category in his league i'm going with him.

 

[Le Golie]

Nope.

Right. You are right.

 

[the_speedster]

Well clearly not that many better passers last year since Schroeder led the tournament in assists.

you mean the same year canada, AGAIN, won the tourney and rolled four lines? Schroeder won the assist title for the same reason sidney crosby did not run away with the scoring title in 2005. Canada rolls four lines.. shows little or no reliance on one line no matter the talent level. The us has not been in that situation too many times

 

[shortshorts]

I am right, and soon you'll realize I'm right. There simply hasn't been enough time for you to get off the Tavares high horse and realize Schroeder's hockey smarts are unparalleled in this draft class. That will take at least until the end of the round robin

Also a lot of people believe Tavares is a 100% guaranteed 40-50 goal scorer as soon as he enters the NHL. people dont realize that the rest of draft is still extremely good, probably the fact that there isn't alot of media coverage on them.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Huh, wha?

Are you straight faced in saying that because, in the first 30 games of their 20 year career Doughty has been more 'ready', not one person involved in hockey would make the decision that was absolutely consensus a few months ago? Huh, wha?

I can guaran*******tee you that +95% of the real hockey people that had Stamkos over Doughty six months ago feel the same way today.

I am saying with a straight face that Doughty was projected as a number 1 dmanwith Norris potential and has demonstrated that talent already.

Stamkos had tons of hype, the scouts that labeled him NHL ready were wrong.

Stamkos could be a number one center, but the question is, how long will it take? Doughty is already showing what his future is.

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

you mean the same year canada, AGAIN, won the tourney and rolled four lines? Schroeder won the assist title for the same reason sidney crosby did not run away with the scoring title in 2005. Canada rolls four lines.. shows little or no reliance on one line no matter the talent level. The us has not been in that situation too many times

Hey, just sayin....

 

[Randall Graves*]

you mean the same year canada, AGAIN, won the tourney and rolled four lines? Schroeder won the assist title for the same reason sidney crosby did not run away with the scoring title in 2005. Canada rolls four lines.. shows little or no reliance on one line no matter the talent level. The us has not been in that situation too many times

Yet if Tavares led the tourney in assists last year...