What makes Tavares a better talent than Schroeder?

[Randall Graves*]

Ok this topic is kind of scattered between two threads.

So let's get at it, is hype a primary reason why Tavares is deemed so far above Schroeder?

Schroeder was really good in the WJC last year as a 16 year old, he's 17 and is USA's best player.

Tavares was pretty good last year, but has been a PP specialist in his two years, but i'd call him Canadas best player.

Schroeder is a great skater, Tavares has better size and a longer reach.

But I think JT is a bit soft, I haven't seen this guy hit anyone yet, with his size he should atleast try and lay the body once in a while yes?

Click to read more...

 

[alienanton*]

tavares just seems to be an instinctual goal scorer. schroeder has all the tools to score goals, but tavares makes it seem like thats what he was born to do.

cant really explain it. that, and size.

i guess its really take your pick: dany heatley or patrick kane.

 

[Future Watch]

JT is not soft, just smarter than the other players on the ice. Some players just think differently, when you can outhink your opponent and create opportunities to capture the puck a very smart player uses only as much energy as required. This is a skill that has been honed over the years for a go-to scorer. Over years and from a young age they are required to always be a threat and taught to manager their energy as the game often depends on their success at the net . . . it is training that a young phenom learns as they mature. Ask any player and they will tell you it is a lot tougher being the one with the puck, winning battles down low and throughout the scoring lanes where your opponents only aim is to knock your head off. Who is the tougher player, the one who takes the hit to score the goal or the one dishing out the punishment. I say JT is mentally tough, physical tough and that is why he scores so many goals.

 

[Jonathan Toews]

he can stand at the side of the net better...

 

[shortshorts]

Hype set by his records. and the media claiming him to be the next great one. he just has that natural instinct to score goals.

not saying he plays like him but ovechkin has that natural instinct to score goals, kolvachuk. etc Schroeder will be an awesome overall player who'll but the puck in the net aswell.

 

[Sorry]

He has a weaker shot, and is the lesser skater. Duh!

Schroeder is the better player.

 

[the_speedster]

Saying schroeder isn't in tavares league doesn't make him a scrub.

Tavares is bigger, stronger and has as good if not better hands. He's also survived in the highest most competitive junior hockey league in the world since he was barely 15yrs old! The US also has a lower/smaller talent base. Could you imagine a 16yr old "canadian" jordan schroeder making the canadian junior team? Not a chance. Now imagine an american Tavares? (can you say junior team at 14- remember tavares was always the best player in few junior AA games he was able to play as a bantam.)

I l ike schroeder because he's so aware of his "deficiencies" that he's worked extra hard on his strenghts...skating, stickhandling, passing... and brought them to an elite level. The lack of size and strength is still a difference. Its unlikely to stop him from becoming an effective nhl'er in the future (the kid seems to intelligent for that) .. I don't think he's in the same league as tavares/hedman/cowen

 

[shortshorts]

He has a weaker shot, and is the lesser skater. Duh!

Schroeder is the better player.

Although theres ALOT of hype. Schroeder is not the better player. Professional scouts don't listen to the hype they pick what they see. and i'd believe 10/10 if it was Tavares or Schroeder. it'd be tavares

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

Size, power, scoring ability, and hype.

Schroeder, on the other hand, has proven size to be a nonfactor, power to be something he still possesses even with his lack of height, and scoring ability to be some sort of switch he can turn on when ever he sees fit.

The only real thing Schroeder has going against him is hype. Tavares has been had millions of Canadian eyes on him since 13. This past week is the first time Schroeder has ever had the Tavares-esque spotlight. People around the world are finally seeing him play for the first time and have been drooling ever since. Is not having hype a good thing or a bad thing? Well you could argue bad because he -- as you've all caught a glimpse of -- plays his best hockey when all eyes are on him.

The real argument is preference. Like alienanton said, do you want a proven natural playmaker (Schroeder) or a proven natural scorer (Tavares)? I personally would prefer the former because I see more promise and versatility in Schroeder, but a proven scorer like Tavares is obviously the more lucrative preference and understandably so.

 

[Sorry]

Although theres ALOT of hype. Schroeder is not the better player. Professional scouts don't listen to the hype they pick what they see. and i'd believe 10/10 if it was Tavares or Schroeder. it'd be tavares

He isn't a great skater. He can't finish unless someone sets him up, the goaltending is weak, or the coverage in front of the net is lacking. I fail to see what makes this guy so special. The only thing he is good at is playmaking and i thought he was a goal scorer. Boychuk is a better finisher. I want to see how he does against the American team. I'll eat my words if this guy does better than he has. But so far, not impressive.

 

[shortshorts]

He isn't a great skater. He can't finish unless someone sets him up, the goaltending is weak, or the coverage in front of the net is lacking. I fail to see what makes this guy so special. The only thing he is good at is playmaking and i thought he was a goal scorer. Boychuk is a better finisher. I want to see how he does against the American team. I'll eat my words if this guy does better than he has. But so far, not impressive.

I havn't been too impressed. but there's a reason besides hype thats he's in the top 2 draft slots. Professional scouts make that list not the media. See his mid air tap in goal, you can't teach that. Amazing reflexes, reaction time. but we'll see how he does against tougher teams and if he can make the difference like how we project him to.

 

[deanosaur]

Alright alright I give in, Hedman #1, Schroeder #2, MSP #3, and Tavares to Leafs at what ever pick they have.

 

[Aqualung]

Because HFBoard members know more than professional scouts and teams that want to spend time, money, and investment will chose solely based on hype

Schroeder is under-rated by everyone not American. But Americans like Randal Graves who has a hate on for Canadians by trolling a TEAM CANADA game thread is just trying to stir up some Canadian die-hards.

I like Schroeder a whole lot and believe that he's in the same league as Patrick Kane, but take a look at what Tavares did as a 15-16 year old in the OHL. He's leading the tournament in scoring with Hodgson (sure with a game played on Schroder). You don't have to praise Schroeder at the expense of Tavares.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Saying schroeder isn't in tavares league doesn't make him a scrub.

Tavares is bigger, stronger and has as good if not better hands. He's also survived in the highest most competitive junior hockey league in the world since he was barely 15yrs old! The US also has a lower/smaller talent base. Could you imagine a 16yr old "canadian" jordan schroeder making the canadian junior team? Not a chance. Now imagine an american Tavares? (can you say junior team at 14- remember tavares was always the best player in few junior AA games he was able to play as a bantam.)

I l ike schroeder because he's so aware of his "deficiencies" that he's worked extra hard on his strenghts...skating, stickhandling, passing... and brought them to an elite level. The lack of size and strength is still a difference. Its unlikely to stop him from becoming an effective nhl'er in the future (the kid seems to intelligent for that) .. I don't think he's in the same league as tavares/hedman/cowen

But why isn't Schroeder in Tavares league?

I think Schroeder is proving that he IS in his league, he's the best player on his line which consists of two top 10 picks.

I think size is the only question with Schroeder but the league seems to be trending towards small players who can skate and have alot of skill.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Saying schroeder isn't in tavares league doesn't make him a scrub.

Tavares is bigger, stronger and has as good if not better hands. He's also survived in the highest most competitive junior hockey league in the world since he was barely 15yrs old! The US also has a lower/smaller talent base. Could you imagine a 16yr old "canadian" jordan schroeder making the canadian junior team? Not a chance. Now imagine an american Tavares? (can you say junior team at 14- remember tavares was always the best player in few junior AA games he was able to play as a bantam.)

I l ike schroeder because he's so aware of his "deficiencies" that he's worked extra hard on his strenghts...skating, stickhandling, passing... and brought them to an elite level. The lack of size and strength is still a difference. Its unlikely to stop him from becoming an effective nhl'er in the future (the kid seems to intelligent for that) .. I don't think he's in the same league as tavares/hedman/cowen

So you think a 14 year old Tavares would make the 2006 team?

That's a riot...

 

[xbr]

Tavares is more of a victim of his own hype then anything else. Scouts have had 4 years to dissect him and criticize small facets of his game which would probably go unnoticed in less scouted players. Tavares is ranked where he is because he is a very good bet to score 40-50 goals in the NHL regularly, that is very hard to pass on.

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

Because HFBoard members know more than professional scouts and teams that want to spend time, money, and investment will chose solely based on hype

Schroeder is under-rated by everyone not American. But Americans like Randal Graves who has a hate on for Canadians by trolling a TEAM CANADA game thread is just trying to stir up some Canadian die-hards.

I like Schroeder a whole lot and believe that he's in the same league as Patrick Kane, but take a look at what Tavares did as a 15-16 year old in the OHL. He's leading the tournament in scoring with Hodgson (sure with a game played on Schroder). You don't have to praise Schroeder at the expense of Tavares.

I don't think he's throwing Tavares under the bus at all, just asking a relatively warranted question.

Tavares has been a lock for #1 since that unthinkable season as a 15-16 year old in the OHL. But this is today, and I don't think it's out of line to have the opinion that in this tournament -- where we have the luxury of putting prospect up to prospect -- Schroeder has outshined Tavares thus far.

What does Tavares possess today that makes him inarguably a better prospect/player, is the question at hand.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Size, power, scoring ability, and hype.

Schroeder, on the other hand, has proven size to be a nonfactor, power to be something he still possesses even with his lack of height, and scoring ability to be some sort of switch he can turn on when ever he sees fit.

The only real thing Schroeder has going against him is hype. Tavares has been had millions of Canadian eyes on him since 13. This past week is the first time Schroeder has ever had the Tavares-esque spotlight. People around the world are finally seeing him play for the first time and haven't stopped drooling since. Is not having hype a good thing or a bad thing? Because he, as you've all caught a glimpse of, plays his best hockey when all eyes are on him.

The real argument is preference. Like alienanton said, do you want a proven natural playmaker (Schroeder) or a proven natural scorer (Tavares)? I personally would prefer the former because I see more promise and versatility in Schroeder, but a proven scorer like Tavares is obviously the more lucrative preference.

It's not an either/or scenario with Tavares though. The kid's got outstanding vision and, AFAIK, had the highest assists-per-game ratio in the entire CHL last year. He can create plays as well as any draft-eligible, and score goals better than all of them.

What gives Tavares the advantage over Schroeder, IMO, is his uncanny nose for the net and pinpoint shot accuracy.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Because HFBoard members know more than professional scouts and teams that want to spend time, money, and investment will chose solely based on hype

Schroeder is under-rated by everyone not American. But Americans like Randal Graves who has a hate on for Canadians by trolling a TEAM CANADA game thread is just trying to stir up some Canadian die-hards.

I like Schroeder a whole lot and believe that he's in the same league as Patrick Kane, but take a look at what Tavares did as a 15-16 year old in the OHL. He's leading the tournament in scoring with Hodgson (sure with a game played on Schroder). You don't have to praise Schroeder at the expense of Tavares.

I didn't even trash Tavares, i've already acknowledged he's Canadas best player.

But you can't tell me he's physical...because he's not, at all.

It's funny how some ppl pee on Schroeders talent saying he wouldn't have made Canada as a 16 year old...umm last year he had a pretty damn good showing, and he's following it up by carrying his line, one of which was a top 3 pick who is 2 years older.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Tavares is a tough one to figure out. His biggest problem is, he has been under the micro scope too long.

He averaged 2 points per in the two previous seasons. Now he is under that. Not the curve you want to see. He is a goal scorer in a goal scorers league.

Schroder just kind of popped up. Now everyone sees what he can do. Because few were paying attention to him. Schroeder, right now, can play in all situations any where on the ice. As of today, IMO, Schroeder is the more complete player.

I still take Tavares very easily. Goal scorers are hard to find. D can be taught. Schroeder is as tough as you will need. In the long run. Smaller frames take more damage and it adds up. If Schroeder were to ever lose a step. His qualty goes down real quick.

 

[the_speedster]

So you think a 14 year old Tavares would make the 2006 team?

That's a riot...

team usa? Over guys like Fraser, Sweat Carman and Geoffrion? and absolutely. A 14yr like john tavares in the usa system would've driven them insane with expectations. Again, Oshawa was not the first time john tavares played at a junior A level. At the age of 13/14 he played 16games (the limit) in the Ontario provincial league and scored 23pts in 16games!

A kid with his capability has not been in the us system (unless you go as far back as lafontaine/carpenter etc) Kessel was not, kane was not and schroeder for all his ability COULD NOT have played junior A effectively at 13/14.

Kessel officially became a "phenom" at 16. Kane NEVER had that level/reputation.

Yes team USA would've given a 14yr old john tavares a VERY VERY long look

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think he's throwing Tavares under the bus at all, just asking a relatively warranted question.

Tavares has been a lock for #1 since that unthinkable season as a 15-16 year old in the OHL. But this is today, and I don't think it's out of line to have the opinion that in this tournament -- where we have the luxury of putting prospect up to prospect -- Schroeder has outshined Tavares thus far.

What does Tavares possess today that makes him inarguably a better prospect/player, is the question at hand.

I'd be curious to know what could lead you to that conclusion.

 

[Hav-a-lot*]

It's not an either/or scenario with Tavares though. The kid's got outstanding vision and, AFAIK, had the highest assists-per-game ratio in the entire CHL last year. He can create plays as well as any draft-eligible, and score goals better than all of them.

What gives Tavares the advantage over Schroeder, IMO, is his uncanny nose for the net and pinpoint shot accuracy.

Schroeder is no sissy when it comes to scoring either.

It's not either/or. You'll get a scorer and a playmaker out of both Schroeder and Tavares. The point being made is that Schroeder was built a playmaker and Tavares was built a scorer. They're two offensive machines. Take your pick.

 

[Randall Graves*]

team usa? Over guys like Fraser, Sweat Carman and Geoffrion? and absolutely. A 14yr like john tavares in the usa system would've driven them insane with expectations. Again, Oshawa was not the first time john tavares played at a junior A level. At the age of 13/14 he played 16games (the limit) in the Ontario provincial league and scored 23pts in 16games!

A kid with his capability has not been in the us system (unless you go as far back as lafontaine/carpenter etc) Kessel was not, kane was not and schroeder for all his ability COULD NOT have played junior A effectively at 13/14.

Kessel officially became a "phenom" at 16. Kane NEVER had that level/reputation.

Yes team USA would've given a 14yr old john tavares a VERY VERY long look

There is no way Tavares would've made it as a 14 year old. That's quite comical.

Kane is proof that hype means nothing BTW, thanks for help prove my point...

 

[Aqualung]

I don't think he's throwing Tavares under the bus at all, just asking a relatively warranted question.

Tavares has been a lock for #1 since that unthinkable season as a 15-16 year old in the OHL. But this is today, and I don't think it's out of line to have the opinion that in this tournament -- where we have the luxury of putting prospect up to prospect -- Schroeder has outshined Tavares thus far.

What does Tavares possess today that makes him inarguably a better prospect/player, is the question at hand.

Results are results. Don't get me wrong because I love what Schroeder is doing for Team USA, but 5 goals and 9 points in 3 games is not bad when he's leading the tournament, no matter how he got them. It doesn't have to be pretty like Schroeder's hard-working, speedy, and gritty style, but a goal is a goal.

I'd still take Tavares ahead of Schroeder. But I'm sure Schroeder is doing some leap-frogging over other prospects in this tournament. And I'm not saying they're not in the same league either. But just because Tavares has been under a micro-scope for so long even people are trying to find ways to measure they're favorite prospect against Tavares.

See what that does there? Tavares has set the benchmark. That's how much respect he gets as a prospect-- you wanna measure how good you're doing, look at Tavares.