What if Mario had missed?

[KariyaIsGod*]

We were never at war and aren't now either. That being said, a change in government doesn't make friends out of foes. You should pay more attention to world news. How are my patriotic feelings EXCESSIVE? What because the flag they are directed to is a different arangement of Red, White and Blue? I don't hate north america, i just hate lies about my home from people who have never lived there.

And yes i have been to visit lenin. As a little kid i always had a strange unfounded hypothesis that if u licked him, he was salty, since he was preserved and all.

Lies about your home?

That has nothing to do with your bias when it coems to on ice matters. Also, I should mention, I'm not American...

 

[Tighina]

Russian Antifa is as strong as ever. This Nov 4 will be a bloody day for Russian Nazis. Why the Moldovian flag? Simple, i was born there, in Kishinev(before it got changed to Chisinau via all that moldovian BS) which back then was a Russian/Jewish city. I am not a mamalizhnik, im half Russian half Jewish. I lived in Russia during the **** storm of the 90s. I love Kishinev and Moldova, always have and always will, reguardless of what the idiots in power do. It is a beautifull place and i actually just recently bought out all our old properties in Kishinev and in Koblevo( in the Ukraine on the black sea where i spent my summers during the USSR times). I will admit i do love brinza and mititei. I never claimed to be Captain Russia, i just know an apologist when i see one. It's ok, it must be hard being Russian in Maryland, maybe if u lived in NYC, you wouldn't be so ashmed of your history.

Yes, it is always the not-quite-Russians who are most insistent on being holier than though. A Jew AND a Moldovan? Oh, this is gonna play huge in the nationalistic circles! To say nothing of nationalistic hockey circles.
You do know how to pick a crowd to froth at the mouth in, I'll give you that. 'Cause in Magnitogorsk, I'd give you and your soapbox about 10 seconds, regardless of what it is you are saying, Trotsky.

 

[espo*]

Give it a rest cyclops. If you are going to insult some one atleast don't use the same thing some one else said to you jsut a few posts back. Maybe i can send you a thesaurus and a dictionary for your b-day? When do you turn 13?

A thesaurus?

Why would i need that,you make yourself look like a moron and you do it with such a nice command of English.



I don't have to be a pullitzer prize winner to insult you as long as you continue to open your mouth.

Now one makes you look bad as good as you do.

Good work professor.

 

[YMB29]

Wow! I can't reply to this because anything I say would be a warnable offence. You are not worth the time. Are you actually equating coaches decision with unavailable players? Words cannot describe your complete and total lack of logic and hockey knowledge.

No, I am responding to you simply naming good players of the 80's and 70's that did not play; I could also say this or that good player did not play for the Soviets.

Player or two? I gave you a dozen names including one 50-goal scorer, one all star d-man and others. How is that player or two?

You were just naming any player you could think of, not considering age, others who might have been better than them, or if they played for Sweden at all at that time. Then you failed to explain why the Canada Cup roster (all NHLers could have played) was no better than the World Championship roster.
Look at the 89 WC roster that had many of the players you named.
They did not do nearly as well as the 87 roster, explain that.

Who died and made you the Patriotism Inspector? The fact that I am Russian and proud of it does not mean I have to spit truth in the eye. I can be both proud and respectful of facts.

This is not about patriotism. You just talk like a Canadian fan and take their "facts", so that Russian flag makes you ridiculous.

I will not even mention your "Canadians don't need team cohesiveness as much" dribble any more. It's not worthy of it.

If you knew anything about hockey, you would know that being ready for line change-ups means you have to be MORE cohesive as a team, not less. Because you have to be ready to play not only with the members of your line, but with any player the coach points to.

What you are saying does not make sense.

Every single Canadian player from 1972 says that one of the major reasons they managed to win the Moscow part of the series was because they had some time to practice in Sweden and gel as a team.

Voice your theory anywhere in hockey circles and you will be laughed out of the room.

So team Canada never practiced or played exhibition games before tournaments?

I could only find Kulagin's quote about the Canadian intensity in a Sport-Express interview with Phil Esposito.

But here is another one you will enjoy. I will translate it for the benefit of our North American friends:

....

Are we ready to close the case and save some face yet or are we going to ask the late Comrade Kulagin to relinguish his Russian citizenship?

How does this go into our discussion, silly? We were talking about Canadians being mentally stronger or not.

 

[espo*]

He's closer to 73 actually.

****,les incompetente is back

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

****,les incompetente is back

Watch it.

I hate to moderate a thread where I have a biassed interest in it. But I will close this thread if you just insult each other.

 

[espo*]

Watch it.

I hate to moderate a thread where I have a biassed interest in it. But I will close this thread if you just insult each other.

I'm doing my best.

Sorry, but They make it pretty tough.

 

[VladNYC*]

Yes, it is always the not-quite-Russians who are most insistent on being holier than though. A Jew AND a Moldovan? Oh, this is gonna play huge in the nationalistic circles! To say nothing of nationalistic hockey circles.
You do know how to pick a crowd to froth at the mouth in, I'll give you that. 'Cause in Magnitogorsk, I'd give you and your soapbox about 10 seconds, regardless of what it is you are saying, Trotsky.

Moldovan lol. Is that supposed to be some sort of backhanded insult? I speak all of 10-20 words in Moldovian(as do more then half of the people born in moldova). As i said, my dad is Russian, from Sverdlovsk and my mom is a jew. Just because i was born in Moldova, doesn't mean i am a Moldavan. You forget how ethnicity works back home? I am a geologist and work for a big mineral exploration company so I travel all over the world, including Russia and the CIS for my work. I was in Magnitogorsk in late April and last November as well. Me and my soap box were fine. I would love to see how your anti Russian apologist BS would go over there tho. I don't run in "nationalist circles", i don't listen to Zherinovsky. It's just that i have lived in the USSR at it's best and have lived in Russia during it's worst so it pisses me off when some immigrant who high tailed it when things got bad, talks **** in front of westerners about our homeland. You reak of western thinking, themes and ideas. While that is all good and fine for when you talk about the West, it's disgusting when that's your approach to home. It's funny how you talk about Russia considering you live in AMERICA and not around Russians. Maybe if you lived in Brighton Beach id give what you say an ounce of consideration.

Oh and I'll be in the Urals in a bit so you can cross your fingers and hope i get the ole axe in the back or atleast break an ankle falling off my soap box.

 

[Tighina]

This is not about patriotism. You just talk like a Canadian fan and take their "facts", so that Russian flag makes you ridiculous.

Well, if respect for facts makes one Canadian and respect for propaganda makes one Russian, I guess I am Canadian then.

What you are saying does not make sense.

Of course, since you have no idea how hockey works.
I suggest you ask an NHL coach of your choosing how important team cohesiveness is. Make sure to do it respectfully and don't froth at the mouth too much.

So team Canada never practiced or played exhibition games before tournaments?

In 1972 they practiced for a week and mostly got drunk doing it. Before Canada Cups - about the same and they were coming off offseasons. Before WCs - none at all.
Compare that to USSR's 11 months of communal living.

How does this go into our discussion, silly? We were talking about Canadians being mentally stronger or not.

Oh, that... Well, that is merely shown by the statistical fact of Canada outplaying us in the last three games and doing it in come-from-behind fashion, scoring late goals in every game. Silly stuff, I agree.

Kulagin merely talks about them being better trained to handle physical pressure, having the kind of coolness under fire that we don't have, being more fearless and much, much deeper. Mere trifles, of course. Time to dig up his corpse and have it sent to Canada, i guess.

 

[YMB29]

Well, if respect for facts makes one Canadian and respect for propaganda makes one Russian, I guess I am Canadian then.

Yes, you are Canadian for respecting facts, their "facts".

Of course, since you have no idea how hockey works.
I suggest you ask an NHL coach of your choosing how important team cohesiveness is. Make sure to do it respectfully and don't froth at the mouth too much.

And you are an expert on how hockey works?

In 1972 they practiced for a week and mostly got drunk doing it. Before Canada Cups - about the same and they were coming off offseasons. Before WCs - none at all.

Stop making assumptions. What is the next thing you are going to say? They were drunk during games?

Compare that to USSR's 11 months of communal living.

That was CSKA not the whole national team.

Oh, that... Well, that is merely shown by the statistical fact of Canada outplaying us in the last three games and doing it in come-from-behind fashion, scoring late goals in every game. Silly stuff, I agree.

You mean only in 72, right?

Kulagin merely talks about them being better trained to handle physical pressure, having the kind of coolness under fire that we don't have, being more fearless and much, much deeper. Mere trifles, of course. Time to dig up his corpse and have it sent to Canada, i guess.

Not what we talked about. When did I disagree with this?

 

[Tighina]

Yes, you are Canadian for respecting facts, their "facts".

There is no Canadian truth or Russian truth. Just truth.

And you are an expert on how hockey works?

I know enough to appreciate the advantages of team togetherness. Do you?

Stop making assumptions. What is the next thing you are going to say? They were drunk during games?

These are not assuptions, these are facts. Read Bobby Clarke's and Phil Esposito's interviews in Russian press. Read Soviet coache's memoirs, they all say that Canadians weren't ready in the early part of the 1972 series.

That was CSKA not the whole national team.

CSKA was a major part of the national team and the national team with players from other clubs was still training together far more than its North American opposition.

You mean only in 72, right?

1987 too. The Canadians came from behind in the decisive game and scored late to win. Even Tikhonov had said that Canadian pros never give up. Most Soviet coaches always admited that we have trouble dealing with their intensity.
Look at Kulagin's quotes closely. Passing under pressure, fighting in front of the net: all of this is mentality, not physicality. Ragulin, Tsygankov and Yakushev were as physical as any Canadian and Mikhailov could be nastier than Clarke, if they let him to be. Kulagin speaks of mental toughness.
But we had trouble dealing with intensity even on the European level, simply because we were not used to it. I once read IIHF's compilation of the greatest WC games ever played. The foreword to it said that many games involve (and indeed they do) a European team sticking close to the Soviets and pulling ahead for a dramatic win. The explanation was that USSR was a great "front-runner", but was often unprepaired when the opponent showed the kind of fighting spirit they weren't used to.
That's how the Yanks beat us in 1980 too, you know.

 

[YMB29]

There is no Canadian truth or Russian truth. Just truth.

It is not about truth but what you perceive as truth.

I know enough to appreciate the advantages of team togetherness. Do you?

We were not talking about team togetherness, but one style being less dependent on team play.

These are not assuptions, these are facts. Read Bobby Clarke's and Phil Esposito's interviews in Russian press. Read Soviet coache's memoirs, they all say that Canadians weren't ready in the early part of the 1972 series.

And the Soviets were extra ready? They were coming off an offseason too.

CSKA was a major part of the national team and the national team with players from other clubs was still training together far more than its North American opposition.

You can't blame them for that, but you are making it seem that the national teams of Canada did not train at all.

1987 too. The Canadians came from behind in the decisive game and scored late to win.

They did not just come from behind by themselves you know.

Look at Kulagin's quotes closely. Passing under pressure, fighting in front of the net: all of this is mentality, not physicality.

No, these refer to the style of play. And the argument was about mental strength not mentality.

Mikhailov could be nastier than Clarke

You sure about that?

But we had trouble dealing with intensity even on the European level, simply because we were not used to it. I once read IIHF's compilation of the greatest WC games ever played. The foreword to it said that many games involve (and indeed they do) a European team sticking close to the Soviets and pulling ahead for a dramatic win. The explanation was that USSR was a great "front-runner", but was often unprepaired when the opponent showed the kind of fighting spirit they weren't used to.

No, look at what it actually says:
"NO TEAM has, in modern times, dominated the IIHF World Championship as the "Big Red Machine" of the Soviet Union. Therefore, it is a bit strange that many of the world championship highlights come from games which the Soviets lost. It's probably why they became unforgettable moments - the superior Soviets won so much over a span of 35 years that the few losses they suffered stick to ones memory because it took so much skill, luck and determination to beat them."

 

[roast]

hey...Lemieux didn't miss!

 

[Karamahti*]

the superior Soviets won so much over a span of 35 years that the few losses they suffered stick to ones memory because it took so much skill, luck and determination to beat them."

I have to admit that soviets were the best in the world in second tier tournaments. Kudos to them

 

[YMB29]

Second tier? What was first tier then?

 

[Karamahti*]

Olympics from 1998 ->, world cup, canada cup, summit series was huge for those two nations. World championships are second tier.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Second tier? What was first tier then?

First tier, true best on best wasn't really allowed for that 35 year period. Which, if you ask me, is a real shame and a loss for all hockey fans.

 

[YMB29]

What?

Olympics from 1998 ->, world cup, canada cup, summit series was huge for those two nations. World championships are second tier.

Again, just because Canada did not send its best most of the time does not make it second tier.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

What?


Again, just because Canada did not send its best most of the time does not make it second tier.

When there are two countries well ahead of the rest and one of them was barred from sending their best, it is not a first tier tournament.

It's the same as saying Russians are inferior because Canadian players on Canadian teams won so many cups.

 

[Marcus-74]

Olympics from 1998 ->, world cup, canada cup, summit series was huge for those two nations. World championships are second tier.

World Cup? You mean the tournament that is being played once in 100 000 years?

Hockey just doesn´t seem to have those tournaments which every (hockey) nation is dying to win. I guess Winter Olympics is the only one that is even close to that.

Yeah, the Soviets only won second tier tournaments

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

World Cup? You mean the tournament that is being played once in 100 000 years?

Hockey just doesn´t seem to have those tournaments which every (hockey) nation is dying to win. I guess Winter Olympics is the only one that is even close to that.

Yeah, the Soviets only won second tier tournaments

Since '98, the Winter Olympics have been that event.

 

[Marcus-74]

Since '98, the Winter Olympics have been that event.

Well, maybe. And at least next time they are being hosted by a true hockey country (sorry Italy!).

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Well, maybe. And at least next time they are being hosted by a true hockey country (sorry Italy!).

It obviously doesn't compair to the World Cup. But it is as big or bigger than any other team sports best on best tournament.

 

[Karamahti*]

Yeah, the Soviets only won second tier tournaments

Nope, they also won one real tournament, 1981 Canada Cup.

 

[Marcus-74]

Nope, they also won one real tournament, 1981 Canada Cup.

And which are the REAL tournaments?

Canada Cups between ´81-´87, for sure

- So Canada leads the Soviets 2-1 in those. And the 1987 finals were, er, let´s just say that the referees did not help the Soviets much in their task (biased, incompetent, a bad day at the office... pick your own description) and yet the games were as close as you can get. The 1984 semifinal between SU - CAN was also anybody´s game.

The Olympics from 1998 -->

- Canada has 1 win, Russia 0. But I´m not really making a case for RUSSIA but rather Soviet Union so forget that.

Even though the Challenge Cup is often dismissed here as merely an exhibition series or something, I don´t think there has ever been more talent on the ice at the same time. And even though they were just "NHL All stars", it was Team Canada in all but name, and I believe that´s how the players felt too (prove me wrong!).

I can understand that some posts make you wanna dismiss the Soviets, but C´mon! Didn´t they prove at least something in the late seventies and early eighties?