Speculation: What Do You Value More? Nazem Kadri or the 2017 1st Round Pick?

[TLeafsFan]

AHHHHHH

why can't we trade Kopitar after we get him?

sure him market value is worth a lot more then Kadris

Does it really make sense to trade Kopitar after we get him, knowing that he's signed for 8 years?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Does it really make sense to trade Kopitar after we get him, knowing that he's signed for 8 years?

Did that really go over your head? You have to be trolling...have to be.

If the argument is Kopitar is worth more but can be acquired for Kadri then if you can upgrade Kadri to Kopitar then why wouldn't you do so then look to cash out on Kopitar while he's in his prime as an elite #1 C?

 

[TLeafsFan]

Did that really go over your head? You have to be trolling...have to be.

If the argument is Kopitar is worth more but can be acquired for Kadri then if you can upgrade Kadri to Kopitar then why wouldn't you do so then look to cash out on Kopitar while he's in his prime as an elite #1 C?

Because the whole scenario of a 1 for 1 Kadri for Kopitar trade in the first place is completely unrealistic, dumb and should be permanently laid to rest.

Time to go back to discussing things here that actually make sense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because the whole scenario of a 1 for 1 Kadri for Kopitar trade in the first place is completely unrealistic, dumb and should be permanently laid to rest.

Time to go back to discussing things here that actually make sense.

You deserve props for an interesting thread idea. I don't vote in polls as a rule and if I did I would have voted for the pick having more value but... Kadri actually has over 50 votes for about 20% of the vote, I'm impressed and that seems to be solid proof that this was a worthwhile thread so well done! There was inevitably some people (as there always seems to be in a Kadri thread) who don't like Kadri and pollute the thread with contributions such as "intelligent discussion isn't possible" but other than that ...

I think you also deserve props for staying civil in the face of all the insults heaped on you, nicely done.

 

[TLeafsFan]

You deserve props for an interesting thread idea. I don't vote in polls as a rule and if I did I would have voted for the pick having more value but... Kadri actually has over 50 votes for about 20% of the vote, I'm impressed and that seems to be solid proof that this was a worthwhile thread so well done! There was inevitably some people (as there always seems to be in a Kadri thread) who don't like Kadri and pollute the thread with contributions such as "intelligent discussion isn't possible" but other than that ...

I think you also deserve props for staying civil in the face of all the insults heaped on you, nicely done.

Awesome man, thanks for the props!

I just let all the insults roll off my back and enjoy the show.

 

[Jack Bauer]

You deserve props for an interesting thread idea. I don't vote in polls as a rule and if I did I would have voted for the pick having more value but... Kadri actually has over 50 votes for about 20% of the vote, I'm impressed and that seems to be solid proof that this was a worthwhile thread so well done! There was inevitably some people (as there always seems to be in a Kadri thread) who don't like Kadri and pollute the thread with contributions such as "intelligent discussion isn't possible" but other than that ...

I think you also deserve props for staying civil in the face of all the insults heaped on you, nicely done.

The merit of his whole idea is highly flawed and uses incorrect evaluations of players.

Of course there's an 80% revolt against that kind of argument.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly, it is literally impossible to have any discussions revolving around Kadri. Between the snide remarks and childlishness certain posters exhibit on a daily basis, as well as any criticisms are meant with very defensive, hostile bunch. All it does is make Kadri related threads a cesspool for bickering over trivial matters.

Kadri is what he is. A middle 6 centermen capable of contributing 40-45 points a season. He's also a solid possession driver and has a knack for drawing penalties. This is partially offset though by some spotty character concerns and immaturity.

What would it take for me to trade him at this point in time? A pick between 20-30 and B prospect, or a pick in the ~15 range straight up

Not to be a nit but sometimes I feel compelled to point out simple math errors.

Kadri for his career has played in 303 games, his 180 points puts him at a 49 point pace for his career.

Some people might think it makes more sense to start counting from the time Kadri became an NHL regular, if you do the math on that you'll see that he has produced at a 52 point pace since then.

Since it's well established that you don't Kadri, you probably want to not include the strike shortened season, even if we start counting after that Kadri has still produced at a 47 point pace.

Either way, you're wrong. If your assessment of a player consists entirely of point production, you might want to at least get the numbers right. If you're having trouble with the math, feel free to send me a PM and I will do my best to help you.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Not to be a nit but sometimes I feel compelled to point out simple math errors.

Kadri for his career has played in 303 games, his 180 points puts him at a 49 point pace for his career.

Some people might think it makes more sense to start counting from the time Kadri became an NHL regular, if you do the math on that you'll see that he has produced at a 52 point pace since then.

Since it's well established that you don't Kadri, you probably want to not include the strike shortened season, even if we start counting after that Kadri has still produced at a 47 point pace.

Either way, you're wrong. If your assessment of a player consists entirely of point production, you might want to at least get the numbers right. If you're having trouble with the math, feel free to send me a PM and I will do my best to help you.

What is the assessment of the player also involves his looming contract status along with point production?

I don't see the point in nit picking over 3 or 4 points per season in a sport determined by so many random factors when almost every single poster would agree that contract status plays a large factor in overall value.

 

[TMLegend]

Not to be a nit but sometimes I feel compelled to point out simple math errors.

Kadri for his career has played in 303 games, his 180 points puts him at a 49 point pace for his career.

Some people might think it makes more sense to start counting from the time Kadri became an NHL regular, if you do the math on that you'll see that he has produced at a 52 point pace since then.

Since it's well established that you don't Kadri, you probably want to not include the strike shortened season, even if we start counting after that Kadri has still produced at a 47 point pace.

Either way, you're wrong. If your assessment of a player consists entirely of point production, you might want to at least get the numbers right. If you're having trouble with the math, feel free to send me a PM and I will do my best to help you.

39 points last year, on pace for for 42 this year. I think my range is perfectly reasonable but thanks for the concern of my mathematical skills, but I'm sure I'll be just fine.

 

[TLeafsFan]

The merit of his whole idea is highly flawed and uses incorrect evaluations of players.

Of course there's an 80% revolt against that kind of argument.

Nah it just boggles a known Kadri hater's mind that there are actually 20% of people out there that are objective about his true market value.

 

[Durrr]

39 points last year, on pace for for 42 this year. I think my range is perfectly reasonable but thanks for the concern of my mathematical skills, but I'm sure I'll be just fine.

39 points last year was still a 44-45 point pace, which you conveniently left lol. This year? Have you seen this team?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Nah it just boggles a known Kadri hater's mind that there are actually 20% of people out there that are objective about his true market value.

I am a 'known Kadri hater'?

Care to back that up? Shouldn't be hard if i'm known so well to hate a player. You can clearly use the google image search yet not an HFboard search....

Right here is where moderators need to step in and do their job...not when someone like me calls this idiot out for the false accusation.

I have more then enough posting history to prove I'm not a hater of any Leaf player currently.

 

[TMLegend]

39 points last year was still a 44-45 point pace, which you conveniently left you lol. This year? Have you seen this team?

I have. Hasn't stopped Bozak from producing, or JVR for that matter. I'm seriously considering making a "wheel of excuses" for the Kadri crowd, it's pathetic.

There's also a problem with pace in general, it's purely hypothetical.

 

[Durrr]

I have. Hasn't stopped Bozak from producing, or JVR for that matter. I'm seriously considering making a "wheel of excuses" for the Kadri crowd, it's pathetic.

There's also a problem with pace in general, it's purely hypothetical.

There is no problem with pace when its 72 games in an 82 game season lol, it's just an excuse for you to post low point totals to give your opinion some supposed credibility. If you actually have a problem with pace, then maybe you should stop using his "hypothetical" pace to show his production is down, and wait til the end of the season like the rest of us . After all, it's only "hypothetically" down, at this point, right?

 

[mikebel111*]

Looks like Rielly and Leafs have started contract talks. I expect Kadri and Leafs to start talking soon too.


Let me guess, some on here would trade Kadri for a late 1st? Good thing our management is smarter than that.

 

[OvenMittz*]

Because the whole scenario of a 1 for 1 Kadri for Kopitar trade in the first place is completely unrealistic, dumb and should be permanently laid to rest.

Time to go back to discussing things here that actually make sense.

In other words.. "I talked myself into a corner and now I can't get out of it, let's put it to rest"

 

[TMLegend]

There is no problem with pace when its 72 games in an 82 game season lol, it's just an excuse for you to post low point totals to give your opinion some supposed credibility.

My opinion has plenty of credibility, much more than the pro-Kadri crowd I would think due to my abillity to be objective and not blinded by bias. But let's say you're right, this still puts him in the 40-45 point Center category I alluded to earlier, and since Nazem is likely looking for 5.5M thereabouts, he's easy trade bait.

 

[TLeafsFan]

The cheap insults are funny, I must say.

The hypothetical Kopitar isn't available, 1.
He was drafted 4 years earlier that Kadri so he's got a smaller window, 2.
If you trade Kadri for Kopitar, a younger than Kopitar Stamkos definitely isn't signing here, 3.
Kadri + Stamkos>>Kopitar, 4.

I like looking at reality, not fantasy. So I wouldn't trade Kadri staright up for Kopitar because Stamkos. Get it? Or are you just gonna fling another lame, unsupported insult at me, other than merely saying "your dumb, its embarrassing, People in our fanbase have no idea what they're talking about".

The only lame response is yours, sorry to say. If you're gonna disagree, disagree. Do it with a shred of substance.

Oh yeah, and Wayne Gretzky didn't do very well with the NHL team he ran now did he? His lip service can stay in LA where it belongs thank you very much.

The TIMING is all wrong. That's why I feel the way I feel about a Kadri/Kopitar trade right now.

And we've been burned before because of multiple trades like this because the timing was off. Great for the other team though.

In other words.. "I talked myself into a corner and now I can't get out of it, let's put it to rest"

Yeah, some corner.

 

[TLeafsFan]

I am a 'known Kadri hater'?

Care to back that up? Shouldn't be hard if i'm known so well to hate a player. You can clearly use the google image search yet not an HFboard search....

Right here is where moderators need to step in and do their job...not when someone like me calls this idiot out for the false accusation.

I have more then enough posting history to prove I'm not a hater of any Leaf player currently.

I don't need to. Your complete and utter DISDAIN for the 20% is quite clear in pretty much all of your posts... and so is your bias.

 

[Durrr]

My opinion has plenty of credibility, much more than the pro-Kadri crowd I would think due to my abillity to be objective and not blinded by bias. But let's say you're right, this still puts him in the 40-45 point Center category I alluded to earlier, and since Nazem is likely looking for 5.5M thereabouts, he's easy trade bait.

Lets re-visit this after he's signed, shall we? All I see are assumptions and subjectivity, which is a lot less then I've seen the other side offer.

 

[OvenMittz*]

39 points last year was still a 44-45 point pace, which you conveniently left lol. This year? Have you seen this team?

Wow.. So the year Kadri gets the most minutes, on the 1st line playing with one of our most productive and defensive player in Komarov this season.. Is being excused?

Look.. I give Kadri credit where its due.. But I don't make excuses for nobody. If Kadri has another disappointing season there is nobody to blame but himself. Enough with the excuses.

There is still the rest of the season to be played let's not start preparing the defense speech for him already.

Kadri had a great season when he hit 50. But he hasn't come close to that or came close to that ppg since then.. So let's be realistic here.

 

[Dough72]

I suspect mlse has gotten sick of the drop in ratings and plans to make a push in the offseason and our pick will be outside the top10. That pick will be a long-shot to produce a player as good as kadri

but with the cap it's not just kadri vs. a 1st rounder, it's a 1st rounder + 30mil to spend on another player. So I'd go with that.

although if I was actually making the decision I would keep Kadri because he is from Toronto and I like him and I think not offering him a contract would be a crummy thing to do

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have. Hasn't stopped Bozak from producing, or JVR for that matter. I'm seriously considering making a "wheel of excuses" for the Kadri crowd, it's pathetic.

There's also a problem with pace in general, it's purely hypothetical.

It's only a problem if you can't do the math, I'll try to help.

Pace = points / games played * # of games in season (82).

Kadri last season:

39 / 73 * 82 = 44 (rounded up from 43.8082191 ... I hope that's enough decimal places for you).

There's nothing hypothetical here, it's just numbers.

 

[OvenMittz*]

Yeah, some corner.

You compared Kopitar to Kadri and why LA stuck with a 21yr Kopitar who was hitting around 70pts at that age... And to use it as an example to Kadri at 26 who hit a 50pt high one season and hasn't come close to that.

Then proceeded to say you'd take Kadri over Kopitar... And got called out for it and now you want to put it to rest.

You talked yourself into a corner and lost credibility and now want to put it to rest... Thats what happened.

We get it.. He's your favorite player, but at some point you have to take the goggles off to make a discussion worth reading for others.

 

[Durrr]

Wow.. So the year Kadri gets the most minutes, on the 1st line playing with one of our most productive and defensive player in Komarov this season.. Is being excused?

Look.. I give Kadri credit where its due.. But I don't make excuses for nobody. If Kadri has another disappointing season there is nobody to blame but himself. Enough with the excuses.

There is still the rest of the season to be played let's not start preparing the defense speech for him already.

Kadri had a great season when he hit 50. But he hasn't come close to that or came close to that ppg since then.. So let's be realistic here.

I didn't say Kadri was having a bad season, but only a fool would look at his point totals as blank statistics for evaluation on team like this. 40-50 points on this team, with solid 2way play is a really good season, and it's not the same as 40-50 points on a top 15 offensive team, which he technically was on when he scored 44/48 and 50/79.

For example, for me, what JVR was doing was far beyond what I expected of him, despite him already having put 60 points in the past. If he put up 60 points/30 goals this season, it would not be the equivalent of a 60 point season for a player on a top 10 team, it's far more impressive. Likewise for Bozak around the 30-40 games mark.

The only people who need to be realistic are the people expecting Kadri to score 50+ points in order to earn a contract, simply "because he has 1st line minutes". I was hoping for 50 points from him too this season, but the reality is he didn't click with JVR, and he's probably not getting there with Grabner/Komarov. I'm not going to hinge my entire opinion of his game because he scores 5 less points then I would have liked.