Speculation: What Do You Value More? Nazem Kadri or the 2017 1st Round Pick?

[Gabriel426]

First of all, if LA comes calling for a Kopitar and Kadri straight up trade, I will drive Kadri to the airport. As I know. Kopitar will be a better player than Kadri for the next 4-5 yrs. while the next 3-4yrs, Kadri might be better but probably only by little.

Secondly, you don't trade Kadri now for a 1st rounder unless the other team is Buffalo, Habs, Flames, Or Columbus.

To me, the Leafs must keep Kadri unless they draft Matthews and sign Stamkos, or sign Stamkos and Willie develop into a true elite Center in the NHL, or draft Matthews and both him and Willie develop into 2 elite Centers. Point is, unless the Leafs have 2 Centers who can play the game better than Kadri no point trading him away till he is close to 30 or pass 30.

 

[TLeafsFan]

First of all, if LA comes calling for a Kopitar and Kadri straight up trade, I will drive Kadri to the airport. As I know. Kopitar will be a better player than Kadri for the next 4-5 yrs. while the next 3-4yrs, Kadri might be better but probably only by little.

Secondly, you don't trade Kadri now for a 1st rounder unless the other team is Buffalo, Habs, Flames, Or Columbus.

To me, the Leafs must keep Kadri unless they draft Matthews and sign Stamkos, or sign Stamkos and Willie develop into a true elite Center in the NHL, or draft Matthews and both him and Willie develop into 2 elite Centers. Point is, unless the Leafs have 2 Centers who can play the game better than Kadri no point trading him away till he is close to 30 or pass 30.

Do you think Kopitar could actually do better than Stamkos on this Leafs team?

Because that would be a 10m in cap decision right now and there's no way we get both. How did Stamkos do when the Lightning sucked, compared to how Kopitar did when LA sucked?

Is Kopitar better than Stamkos, or did Lombardi just build a better team than Yzerman to which Kopitar is the beneficiary of?

 

[Bill Waters*]

That's a start. GOOD TEAMS have learned to be loyal to internally drafted and developed players once they have proven they can be GOOD NHL'ers, which isn't as easy to do as you think.

Kadri has the weirdest following of supporters. Every year they have some excuse for his low production: no first line minutes, no quality line mates, tougher defensive match-ups; as if he is really something more than what you see. Then they clam that to criticize Kadri or question his potential is to be a hater with some irrational basis, going sofar as to claim racism against Kadri. Wrong. I don't hate Kadri. I dislike his fanbase. Kadri is what he is; at 26 he is a 47 point center. Any contribution outside of that contributes to his status of mediocre. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.

 

[Snow Dog]

Mods:Can you please close this down.This is the most ridiculus case of one poster baiting others I have ever seen.

 

[Bill Waters*]

Do you think Kopitar could actually do better than Stamkos on this Leafs team?

Because that would be a 10m in cap decision right now and there's no way we get both. How did Stamkos do when the Lightning sucked, compared to how Kopitar did when LA sucked?

Is Kopitar better than Stamkos, or did Lombardi just build a better team than Yzerman to which Kopitar is the beneficiary of?

Are you trying to say that trading Kadri for Kopitar is not worth it because of Kopitar's cap hit? I sincerely hope I'm wrong for the sake of your intelligence.

 

[Confucius]

Kadri has the weirdest following of supporters. Every year they have some excuse for his low production: no first line minutes, no quality line mates, tougher defensive match-ups; as if he is really something more than what you see. Then they clam that to criticize Kadri or question his potential is to be a hater with some irrational basis, going sofar as to claim racism against Kadri. Wrong. I don't hate Kadri. I dislike his fanbase. Kadri is what he is; at 26 he is a 45 point center. Any contribution outside of that contributes to his status of mediocre. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.

why just because we have a different opinion? Oh please, vive la difference. Anyway I don't hate you!

All I tried to say is, it is not that easy to replace as you say a 45 point centre. Plus he does draw quite a few penalties, that has to account for something. I wonder were there 60, 45 point centers last season?

 

[Snow Dog]

why just because we have a different opinion? Oh please, vive la difference. Anyway I don't hate you!

All I tried to say is, it is not that easy to replace as you say a 45 point centre. Plus he does draw quite a few penalties, that has to account for something. I wonder were there 60, 45 point centers last season?

Earlier in this thread his penalty drawing skill was put into numbers.It equates to 4.5 goals per season or 1 goal every 18 games.It is not a skill that has any real bearing on the outcome of a game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

First of all, if LA comes calling for a Kopitar and Kadri straight up trade, I will drive Kadri to the airport. As I know. Kopitar will be a better player than Kadri for the next 4-5 yrs. while the next 3-4yrs, Kadri might be better but probably only by little.

Secondly, you don't trade Kadri now for a 1st rounder unless the other team is Buffalo, Habs, Flames, Or Columbus.

To me, the Leafs must keep Kadri unless they draft Matthews and sign Stamkos, or sign Stamkos and Willie develop into a true elite Center in the NHL, or draft Matthews and both him and Willie develop into 2 elite Centers. Point is, unless the Leafs have 2 Centers who can play the game better than Kadri no point trading him away till he is close to 30 or pass 30.

Kadri has the weirdest following of supporters. Every year they have some excuse for his low production: no first line minutes, no quality line mates, tougher defensive match-ups; as if he is really something more than what you see. Then they clam that to criticize Kadri or question his potential is to be a hater with some irrational basis, going sofar as to claim racism against Kadri. Wrong. I don't hate Kadri. I dislike his fanbase. Kadri is what he is; at 26 he is a 45 point center. Any contribution outside of that contributes to his status of mediocre. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.

Not to be a nit but for his career, he's produced at a 49 point pace. I know his detractors want to ignore the short season so if you prefer (and I'm sure you do), he's been going at a 47 point pace since then. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.

Earlier in this thread his penalty drawing skill was put into numbers.It equates to 4.5 goals per season or 1 goal every 18 games.It is not a skill that has any real bearing on the outcome of a game.

Yeah you're right, powerplays resulting in goals have no impact on the outcome of games.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Kadri has the weirdest following of supporters. Every year they have some excuse for his low production: no first line minutes, no quality line mates, tougher defensive match-ups; as if he is really something more than what you see. Then they clam that to criticize Kadri or question his potential is to be a hater with some irrational basis, going sofar as to claim racism against Kadri. Wrong. I don't hate Kadri. I dislike his fanbase. Kadri is what he is; at 26 he is a 45 point center. Any contribution outside of that contributes to his status of mediocre. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.

Please show me where I'm making excuses for him. I'm merely talking player asset commerce and value.

 

[Snow Dog]

Not to be a nit but for his career, he's produced at a 49 point pace. I know his detractors want to ignore the short season so if you prefer (and I'm sure you do), he's been going at a 47 point pace since then. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.



Yeah you're right, powerplays resulting in goals have no impact on the outcome of games.

1 goal every 18 games.Nice contribution to winningI wonder how many scoring chances and goals against are a result of him laying on the ice after embelishing contact.

 

[Bill Waters*]

Not to be a nit but for his career, he's produced at a 49 point pace. I know his detractors want to ignore the short season so if you prefer (and I'm sure you do), he's been going at a 47 point pace since then. And no amount of fawning, stat-twisting, or pumping will change that.

that doesnt change my point much. fixed.

 

[Pookie]

^ Just give them the facts. That's what they like. Facts. Right G?

It's probably time for another one of those HERO charts?

 

[HockeyCA]

Do you think Kopitar could actually do better than Stamkos on this Leafs team?

Because that would be a 10m in cap decision right now and there's no way we get both. How did Stamkos do when the Lightning sucked, compared to how Kopitar did when LA sucked?

Is Kopitar better than Stamkos, or did Lombardi just build a better team than Yzerman to which Kopitar is the beneficiary of?

According to Wayne Gretzky, Kopitar is one of the top 5 best players in the league, he might have even said top 3 player in the league.

You're the fool who wouldn't trade Kadri for him. There have been some crazy things said around these Kadri forums, but I'll put this one up there right next to that chart that was floating around a while back comparing Kadri with some of the very best in the game, including Crosby, Toews, etc. It's embarrassing that we actually have people in our fan base that really have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[TLeafsFan]

According to Wayne Gretzky, Kopitar is one of the top 5 best players in the league, he might have even said top 3 player in the league.

You're the fool who wouldn't trade Kadri for him. There have been some crazy things said around these Kadri forums, but I'll put this one up there right next to that chart that was floating around a while back comparing Kadri with some of the very best in the game, including Crosby, Toews, etc. It's embarrassing that we actually have people in our fan base that really have no idea what they are talking about.

The cheap insults are funny, I must say.

The hypothetical Kopitar isn't available, 1.
He was drafted 4 years earlier that Kadri so he's got a smaller window, 2.
If you trade Kadri for Kopitar, a younger than Kopitar Stamkos definitely isn't signing here, 3.
Kadri + Stamkos>>Kopitar, 4.

I like looking at reality, not fantasy. So I wouldn't trade Kadri staright up for Kopitar because Stamkos. Get it? Or are you just gonna fling another lame, unsupported insult at me, other than merely saying "your dumb, its embarrassing, People in our fanbase have no idea what they're talking about".

The only lame response is yours, sorry to say. If you're gonna disagree, disagree. Do it with a shred of substance.

Oh yeah, and Wayne Gretzky didn't do very well with the NHL team he ran now did he? His lip service can stay in LA where it belongs thank you very much.

 

[HockeyCA]

The cheap insults are funny, I must say.

The hypothetical Kopitar isn't available, 1.
He was drafted 4 years earlier that Kadri so he's got a smaller window, 2.
If you trade Kadri for Kopitar, a younger than Kopitar Stamkos definitely isn't signing here, 3.
Kadri + Stamkos>>Kopitar, 4.

I like looking at reality, not fantasy. So I wouldn't trade Kadri staright up for Kopitar because Stamkos. Get it? Or are you just gonna fling another lame, unsupported insult at me, other than merely saying "your dumb, its embarrassing, People in our fanbase have no idea what they're talking about".

The only lame response is yours, sorry to say. If you're gonna disagree, disagree. Do it with a shred of substance.

Oh yeah, and Wayne Gretzky didn't do very well with the NHL team he ran now did he? His lip service can stay in LA where it belongs thank you very much.

At this point, I can only conclude that you may indeed have a lot in common with Mel Gibson..

"No I wouldn't. Kadri has more peak years left in him than Kopitar. Leave Kopitar where he is."

There's the money quote. AND your a better judge of talent than Wayne Gretzky? Lay off the hard stuff.

 

[TLeafsFan]

At this point, I can only conclude that you may indeed have a lot in common with Mel Gibson..

"No I wouldn't. Kadri has more peak years left in him than Kopitar. Leave Kopitar where he is."

There's the money quote. AND your a better judge of talent than Wayne Gretzky? Lay off the hard stuff.

Another useless response. Keep 'em coming rude boy, insulting hater posts are fun. Stay classy.

 

[HockeyCA]

Another useless response. Keep 'em coming rude boy, insulting hater posts are fun. Stay classy.

Don't get all upset when I use your own words and arguments and then openly ridicule how ridiculous I think they are.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Don't get all upset when I use your own words and arguments and then openly ridicule how ridiculous I think they are.

I'm not at all upset, but 'I think' is the key there.

Yes Kopitar is a better player NOW than Kadri. I won't even begin to debate that.

But a disservice would be done to Kopitar by bringing him here, given his age and how far off the Leafs are from competing.

That's why I don't make that trade. Ever think of that?

We're dealing with real people here, not video games and not trading cards.

I'll go back to my 'hard stuff' now.

 

[HockeyCA]

I'm not at all upset, but 'I think' is the key there.

Yes Kopitar is a better player NOW than Kadri. I won't even begin to debate that.

But a disservice would be done to Kopitar by bringing him here, given his age and how far off the Leafs are from competing.

That's why I don't make that trade. Ever think of that?

We're dealing with real people here, not video games and not trading cards.

I'll go back to my 'hard stuff' now.

It would seem a lot more genuine if the switch of your position from not trading Kadri for Kopitar because Kadris many years younger to looking out for Kopitars own best interest didn't happen in the space of a few hours.. But I commend you for at least realizing how crazy your first argument was to begin with. What might be crazier, though, is that I think there was a small group of followers around here who actually agreed with you. Either way, I'm not looking for a big back and forth with you individually. Judging by the tone of your posts, you seem sincere. Others around here do not.

 

[TLeafsFan]

It would seem a lot more genuine if the switch of your position from not trading Kadri for Kopitar because Kadris many years younger to looking out for Kopitars own best interest didn't happen in the space of a few hours.. But I commend you for at least realizing how crazy your first argument was to begin with. What might be crazier, though, is that I think there was a small group of followers around here who actually agreed with you. Either way, I'm not looking for a big back and forth with you individually. Judging by the tone of your posts, you seem sincere. Others around here do not.

The TIMING is all wrong. That's why I feel the way I feel about a Kadri/Kopitar trade right now.

And we've been burned before because of multiple trades like this because the timing was off. Great for the other team though.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Another useless response. Keep 'em coming rude boy, insulting hater posts are fun. Stay classy.

What? Who? Why?


Ah...not me.

 

[TMLegend]

Honestly, it is literally impossible to have any discussions revolving around Kadri. Between the snide remarks and childlishness certain posters exhibit on a daily basis, as well as any criticisms are meant with very defensive, hostile bunch. All it does is make Kadri related threads a cesspool for bickering over trivial matters.

Kadri is what he is. A middle 6 centermen capable of contributing 40-45 points a season. He's also a solid possession driver and has a knack for drawing penalties. This is partially offset though by some spotty character concerns and immaturity.

What would it take for me to trade him at this point in time? A pick between 20-30 and B prospect, or a pick in the ~15 range straight up

 

[Bluelines]

Honestly, it is literally impossible to have any discussions revolving around Kadri. Between the snide remarks and childlishness certain posters exhibit on a daily basis, as well as any criticisms are meant with very defensive, hostile bunch. All it does is make Kadri related threads a cesspool for bickering over trivial matters.

Quite true, before these over the top silly Kadri posts I really had no opinion on the guy, then a certain poster who uses multiple names, dug his heals in an claimed Kadri is the best, irreplaceable... that sort of head in the sand illogical myopic thinking gets my goat and of course I had to comment.

I actually feel sorry for Kadri, he was a star in the OHL with huge expectations and has failed to get a sniff of what his potential was. He seems to be a nice kid, that is easily distracted from being a pro. More than likely he will be out the NHL in the next 3 to 5 years, his legacy will be known as an average 2nd line center, which considering what he could have been is sad.

 

[Pookie]

Blue, it's tough when you get up and realize that someone is wrong on the internet isn't it?

Kadri has had a good run. Made a lot of money. I hope that his missed practice suspension and when we see Kane's missed practice suspension, that Kadri's reasons are resolved for him. Doesn't sound like Kane is close to change.

For Kadri's sake after hockey, I would hope that he has made whatever changes necessary. As we learn, while it is a lot of money, it sometimes doesn't last if folks don't take responsibility.

For Kadri's sake during hockey, well that's not personal. It's business and as an asset, he's probably more valuable to this team if he plays on someone else's and we stock the cupboards

 

[Faltorvo]

The TIMING is all wrong. That's why I feel the way I feel about a Kadri/Kopitar trade right now.

And we've been burned before because of multiple trades like this because the timing was off. Great for the other team though.

AHHHHHH

why can't we trade Kopitar after we get him?

sure him market value is worth a lot more then Kadris