Player Discussion What do we have in Erik Gudbranson?

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y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
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The ultimatum, “either you put you money where your mouth is or ...” is bullying.
If you’re not a Canuck’s fan, I’m fine with that. It’s your choice to cheer for whichever team you want.

It's not bullying at all. You say the Canucks will make the playoffs. So accept the bet.

Now if you were saying you HOPE the Canucks make the playoffs, that's a different story. But if you truly believe the Canucks will make the playoffs and we're all wrong when we say they won't, then back it up. If you admit that you're just hoping they make the playoffs, fine. That's your prerogative.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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A couple of concepts for you:

1. I ( and Im going to guess to some extent @y2kcanucks) don't need to believe that my team is the best, for them to be my team. I've stuck around since 1994.

2. What you or I believe doesn't affect how the team actually does.

3. When you are talking about actual money in a bet, you REALLY should not bet on what you "Want to have happen." You should bet on what is likely to happen.
With you I totally agree. As fans we are fanatical about our team and players. However, to openly cheer against our team and it’s players, in my mind, questions one is really a fan of our team.
Yes, it’s okay to be disappointed in JB’s decisions, but why cheer against players doing well, unless it’s simply selfishly wanting yourself to be proven right? Wouldn’t a true fanatic prefer to be wrong, and have their team win?
Why can’t Guddy play like he did in Florida and when partnered with Edler? He’s healthy now.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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It's not bullying at all. You say the Canucks will make the playoffs. So accept the bet.

Now if you were saying you HOPE the Canucks make the playoffs, that's a different story. But if you truly believe the Canucks will make the playoffs and we're all wrong when we say they won't, then back it up. If you admit that you're just hoping they make the playoffs, fine. That's your prerogative.
Demanding such a response, while giving ultimatums, is bullying. “You will do this, or this is going to happen” is bullying.
Now this thread is about Guddy.
He’s been a stud in Florida, especially in the playoffs.
He was awesome with Edler here.
He’s healthy now.
He will be awesome for us.
 

Doyle Hargraves

Registered User
May 11, 2018
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I don't think too many posters are disillusioned with Gudbranson because they hate JB. But look at the facts.

Gudbranson cost the Canucks the equivalent a first rounder McCann; a high second (33rd overall) and a fourth....because Florida quite correctly identified him as a guy they couldn't justify re-signing to a big ticket contract. But that didn't stop the Canucks from declaring him a 'foundational player', when he clearly isn't. Then to pile on, they re-sign him to a $4m contact as a third-pairing d-man at best.

Gudrandson seems like a stand-up guy and and I'm sure he's a popular guy in the room. But just a bad trade and a bad contract for a supposedly rebuilding team.
Good post. The guy is 6ft 5 soaking wet so he has that going for him. As an asside what point will we see a guy who is close to 7 feet tall in the NHL? Chara has been a beast at 6ft 9, can you imagine if he was 6ft 11 or even 7 feet tall ?
 

y2kcanucks

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Demanding such a response, while giving ultimatums, is bullying. “You will do this, or this is going to happen” is bullying.
Now this thread is about Guddy.
He’s been a stud in Florida, especially in the playoffs.
He was awesome with Edler here.
He’s healthy now.
He will be awesome for us.

Reading comprehension is important.

That's fine. The fact that you go off on a tangent rather than actually going forward with taking my bet tells me you don't actually believe the Canucks will make the playoffs. That's all I need to know.
 

ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
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Demanding such a response, while giving ultimatums, is bullying. “You will do this, or this is going to happen” is bullying.
Now this thread is about Guddy.
He’s been a stud in Florida, especially in the playoffs.
He was awesome with Edler here.
He’s healthy now.
He will be awesome for us.
See, here's the problem we're having. You either haven't any idea what Gudbranson played like in Florida especially in the playoffs or you have no idea what defensive "studs" actually play like. He was carried around by one of the two dmen we have who can actually carry a weak partner for a big whopping five games, and he literally just had shoulder surgery. If you want to ignore these things and conclude he will now be "awesome" for us despite his large sample size of him being very not awesome, then go ahead. You're welcome to your opinion, but nobody is obligated to validate it or not point out its glaring logical flaws.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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With you I totally agree. As fans we are fanatical about our team and players. However, to openly cheer against our team and it’s players, in my mind, questions one is really a fan of our team.
Yes, it’s okay to be disappointed in JB’s decisions, but why cheer against players doing well, unless it’s simply selfishly wanting yourself to be proven right? Wouldn’t a true fanatic prefer to be wrong, and have their team win?
Why can’t Guddy play like he did in Florida and when partnered with Edler? He’s healthy now.

That part... My wish for the team is to win a Stanley Cup. If getting that involves losing to get rid of incompetent people, then so be it.

Can you elaborate what you think Gudbranson was doing while he was in Florida?
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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See, here's the problem we're having. You either haven't any idea what Gudbranson played like in Florida especially in the playoffs or you have no idea what defensive "studs" actually play like. He was carried around by one of the two dmen we have who can actually carry a weak partner for a big whopping five games, and he literally just had shoulder surgery. If you want to ignore these things and conclude he will now be "awesome" for us despite his large sample size of him being very not awesome, then go ahead. You're welcome to your opinion, but nobody is obligated to validate it or not point out its glaring logical flaws.
I’m not asking for validation or agreement with my opinion. I’m a Canuck’s fan, who wants our team to do well. For us to do well Guddy needs to be a stud. Edler and Guddy need to be a very good number one pair. Tanev and Juiolevi need to be a good second pair. I really don’t understand why Canuck’s fans would not want the same? I know it’s okay to cheer for your team in a variety of ways, but I don’t get cheering against them.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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That part... My wish for the team is to win a Stanley Cup. If getting that involves losing to get rid of incompetent people, then so be it.

Can you elaborate what you think Gudbranson was doing while he was in Florida?
The last Florida playoff appearance saw Guddy play 25 minutes per game, even more than Ekblad. Those minutes Guddy played (and in the regular season too) were hard minutes, and allowed Ekblad to play a more offensive role. Trading Guddy forced Ekblad to assume some of Guddy’s hard minutes, and (as a result) Ekblad had a real downturn in his play. Guddy will make not only Edler better, but his taking the hard minutes will allow Tanev to be more offensive minded, with more Ozone starts. Guddy will be an anchor for our D.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
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Surrey, BC
I’m not asking for validation or agreement with my opinion. I’m a Canuck’s fan, who wants our team to do well. For us to do well Guddy needs to be a stud. Edler and Guddy need to be a very good number one pair. Tanev and Juiolevi need to be a good second pair. I really don’t understand why Canuck’s fans would not want the same? I know it’s okay to cheer for your team in a variety of ways, but I don’t get cheering against them.

You're confusing "want to happen" with "expect to happen."

I want to win a million dollars today. I don't expect I will win a million dollars today.
 
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y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
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The last Florida playoff appearance saw Guddy play 25 minutes per game, even more than Ekblad. Those minutes Guddy played (and in the regular season too) were hard minutes, and allowed Ekblad to play a more offensive role. Trading Guddy forced Ekblad to assume some of Guddy’s hard minutes, and (as a result) Ekblad had a real downturn in his play. Guddy will make not only Edler better, but his taking the hard minutes will allow Tanev to be more offensive minded, with more Ozone starts. Guddy will be an anchor for our D.

And he got ventilated in those minutes. Just because you're on the ice doesn't mean you're playing well.
 
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Fatass

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You're confusing "want to happen" with "expect to happen."

I want to win a million dollars today. I don't expect I will win a million dollars today.
I’m not confusing the two. As a fanatic, I accept the difference.
 

Fire Benning

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Oct 2, 2016
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I don't care what Gudbranson did in 5 or 6 playoff games for the Panthers two years ago. That is not the same player we've seen on the Canucks, not even close.
 

ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
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I’m not asking for validation or agreement with my opinion. I’m a Canuck’s fan, who wants our team to do well. For us to do well Guddy needs to be a stud. Edler and Guddy need to be a very good number one pair. Tanev and Juiolevi need to be a good second pair. I really don’t understand why Canuck’s fans would not want the same? I know it’s okay to cheer for your team in a variety of ways, but I don’t get cheering against them.
Yeah, I don't think you understand the difference between wanting something and understanding the likelihood of that thing actually happening in real life. Sure, I want Gudbranson and Edler to be a good first d pair. It's just that there's no basis in reality to think they would be based on their play over their entire NHL careers.

One of the very popular logical fallacies of this forum is the idea that because a person doesn't think the team as currently constructed will contend that person must not want the team to contend. If you lack the intelligence to understand the difference, well...I really don't know what to tell you.
 
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Fatass

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Yeah, I don't think you understand the difference between wanting something and understanding the likelihood of that thing actually happening in real life. Sure, I want Gudbranson and Edler to be a good first d pair. It's just that there's no basis in reality to think they would be based on their play over their entire NHL careers.

One of the very popular logical fallacies of this forum is the idea that because a person doesn't think the team as currently constructed will contend that person must not want the team to contend. If you lack the intelligence to understand the difference, well...I really don't know what to tell you.
Since when does being a fanatic have anything to do with intellect?
 

MarkMM

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Jan 30, 2010
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Don't change the subject about cheering or not cheering for the team, you made a claim that the Canucks would make the playoffs. I'm going to cheer for them, but I think the odds are against them getting there. You seem quite certain that the Canucks would make the playoffs and that Gudbranson would be a net benefit to the team which, cheering or not cheering, is just hard to support given the evidence, so are you throwing out empty claims or would you be willing to stand by it?
 

Pavel96

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Apr 7, 2015
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The last Florida playoff appearance saw Guddy play 25 minutes per game, even more than Ekblad. Those minutes Guddy played (and in the regular season too) were hard minutes, and allowed Ekblad to play a more offensive role. Trading Guddy forced Ekblad to assume some of Guddy’s hard minutes, and (as a result) Ekblad had a real downturn in his play. Guddy will make not only Edler better, but his taking the hard minutes will allow Tanev to be more offensive minded, with more Ozone starts. Guddy will be an anchor for our D.
The only anchoring Guddy will be doing is dragging the statistics of his on ice partner down to the depths of the NHL defensive bottom feeders. Guddy last year was used as a #5 defensman, minutes wise. Not sure how he's going to be counted on to anchor anything in a positive way. As well he has been injured 50% of the time he has been here and is coming off surgery. Are you actually expecting him to play more than 2/3 of the season?
 
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Pavel96

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Apr 7, 2015
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I’m not asking for validation or agreement with my opinion. I’m a Canuck’s fan, who wants our team to do well. For us to do well Guddy needs to be a stud. Edler and Guddy need to be a very good number one pair. Tanev and Juiolevi need to be a good second pair. I really don’t understand why Canuck’s fans would not want the same? I know it’s okay to cheer for your team in a variety of ways, but I don’t get cheering against them.
Guberson needs to be part of a very good number one pair? There is obviously 0% chance of that happening. Is this satire or just wishful thinking?
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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The only anchoring Guddy will be doing is dragging the statistics of his on ice partner down to the depths of the NHL defensive bottom feeders. Guddy last year was used as a #5 defensman, minutes wise. Not sure how he's going to be counted on to anchor anything in a positive way. As well he has been injured 50% of the time he has been here and is coming off surgery. Are you actually expecting him to play more than 2/3 of the season?
As a fanatic I hope for results. For us to make the playoffs Guddy and Edler need to be our top pair, and play 70 plus games each. I’m hopeful that will happen.
 

Pavel96

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Apr 7, 2015
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As a fanatic I hope for results. For us to make the playoffs Guddy and Edler need to be our top pair, and play 70 plus games each. I’m hopeful that will happen.
But why not say we need Gaudette to turn into Gretzky? Like why stop there, we need Demko to turn into Hasek, Juolevi to turn into Duncan keith. And imagine if benning turns into a gm that makes shrewd trades and signs good contracts. As well we also need tickets to be free and unlimited. In fact, I need them to pay me to attend games as well.
 
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ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
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Since when does being a fanatic have anything to do with intellect?
It means even though I've been a fan of this team since '82 and want it to win with all my sports fan heart, I can't just shut my brain off when my eyes tell me something my heart doesn't want to hear. I can't just ignore history, statistics, wins and losses and logic because I want to believe the Canucks will defy everything that's been shown to happen more often than not.

Far more often than not, players at 26 years of age are finished products. FAR more often than not. Sure, you can dig up outliers like Tim Thomas, but if you're betting on those outliers to happen regularly, that's a great way to go broke. I'm sorry, but this requires intellect to understand. I can't change that. If you say Gudbranson is magically going to become a good dman despite years of not being one because you want him to...well, expect people to question your intelligence if you can't come up with a better reason why.
 
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Fatass

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But why not say we need Gaudette to turn into Gretzky? Like why stop there, we need Demko to turn into Hasek, Juolevi to turn into Duncan keith. And imagine if benning turns into a gm that makes shrewd trades and signs good contracts. As well we also need tickets to be free and unlimited. In fact, I need them to pay me to attend games as well.
Pettersson is our Gretzky:)
Why can’t fans have a positive hope for their team’s players?
Of course fans will be negative. I for one hate that JB gave up picks to get Vey and Baer. I think those seconds would have been better served (for a rebuilding team) to draft guys, especially Dmen.
But I don’t mind the second we used to get Guddy. I see Guddy as a player we need.
 
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