Player Discussion What do we have in Erik Gudbranson?

[timbermen]

I'm willing to by that once upon a time defensemen took longer to develop because of the amount of strength required to thrive in the clutch and grab style of game, don't think that's the case anymore though.

Wrong,It's partly why, defence is a much more responsible position with every mistake more glaring than the forwards.A much harder position to learn.Thats why drafting them is far from an exact science.

 

[Melvin]

Haven't looked in the history but I'd guess that "back then" defensemen prospects often spent a couple seasons in the minors before "earning" a spot in the parent club lineup (then they often have to work their way up the depth chart again).

There are also fewer spots to be had. Teams are willing to carry an extra young forward in their bottom-six even if he is pretty raw. It is not as easy to "bury" a young defenseman on the bottom pairing.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Not true.Defencemen always take longer to develop.NHL GM Pat Quinn said it's around 25(around Gudbranson's age) but what does he know, he's one of those ex-player Gm's.That was sarcasm,Pat Quinn was one of the best and a good example of ex-players and why owners hire them.

2017‑2018 NHL Defensemen Scoring Leaders

Clicky.

 

[y2kcanucks]

We are going to make the playoffs next season. And Guddy (and the other d I mentioned) is going to be a big reason why.

Let's put money on this.

 

[Fatass]

Let's put money on this.

You don’t want the team you cheer for to make the playoffs? You would actually bet against your team doing well? You would want to see our players do poorly, rather than do well?
I don’t understand wanting to bet against your team’s success.

 

[Hit the post]

You don’t want the team you cheer for to make the playoffs? You would actually bet against your team doing well? You would want to see our players do poorly, rather than do well?
I don’t understand wanting to bet against your team’s success.

You don't bet with your heart. I found that the hard way in Vegas.

(cheering on the other hand is different).

 

[y2kcanucks]

You don’t want the team you cheer for to make the playoffs? You would actually bet against your team doing well? You would want to see our players do poorly, rather than do well?
I don’t understand wanting to bet against your team’s success.

I make my decisions based on facts, not based on wishing upon a Star.

Like I said, if you’re so confident the Canucks will make the playoffs let’s bet on it. $100 if you want.

 

[Fatass]

You don't bet with your heart. I found that the hard way in Vegas.

(cheering on the other hand is different).

I agree. But when one is a complete fan, isn’t it all heart? The
Canucks are rebuilding, and betting for them would be a mistake. However, betting against them is totally different. That would mean cheering against them (and their players) to do well. It would mean hoping for them to do poorly, so you could win. Does that seem like something a fan (who loves their team) would do?

 

[Fatass]

I make my decisions based on facts, not based on wishing upon a Star.

Like I said, if you’re so confident the Canucks will make the playoffs let’s bet on it. $100 if you want.

Again, you would actively wish for the team you love, and the players on that team, to do poorly? Why would you do that? How could you watch the games, and cheer for us to lose?

 

[Peter10]

Again, you would actively wish for the team you love, and the players on that team, to do poorly? Why would you do that? How could you watch the games, and cheer for us to lose?

Sometimes you need a short term pain for long term gain. If losing badly is required to get rid of management then yes i cheer to lose. I find it more irritating to just accept/support average or even poor management just because it is "our" management

 

[Melvin]

You don’t want the team you cheer for to make the playoffs? You would actually bet against your team doing well? You would want to see our players do poorly, rather than do well?
I don’t understand wanting to bet against your team’s success.

What does that have to do with anything? You made a claim; put your money where your mouth is or else I doubt you truly believe your claim.

 

[Canucker]

Again, you would actively wish for the team you love, and the players on that team, to do poorly? Why would you do that? How could you watch the games, and cheer for us to lose?

I want the Canucks to do well and win the cup, this team...led by this management group has shown they are incapable of getting the job done. I hope for good things, but I am incapable of ignoring the bad...if it takes cheering against this team in order to bring about the change I want to see, I'm going to cheer against the team...you have your way of supporting the team and thats fine, but other people have other ways of supporting the team as well, and just because it doesn't involve blind fanaticism doesn't mean we don't ultimately want this team to succeed.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Again, you would actively wish for the team you love, and the players on that team, to do poorly? Why would you do that? How could you watch the games, and cheer for us to lose?

Did you miss what I wrote? Wishing for, and expectations are two completely different things. In this case, yes, I wish for this team to fall to 31st next year because that's what we need to get new management, competent management. But beyond that, even without knowing who this team is going to sign in free agency, I can tell you this team won't make the playoffs. So again, if you're so confident they will let's make the bet. The fact that you're going off on what I cheer for rather than accepting the bet tells me you don't actually believe what you posted earlier.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I want the Canucks to do well and win the cup, this team...led by this management group has shown they are incapable of getting the job done. I hope for good things, but I am incapable of ignoring the bad...if it takes cheering against this team in order to bring about the change I want to see, I'm going to cheer against the team...you have your way of supporting the team and thats fine, but other people have other ways of supporting the team as well, and just because it doesn't involve blind fanaticism doesn't mean we don't ultimately want this team to succeed.

No management group could have turned this team around and made it a contender in four years. It was a garbage fire when Elmer got here. That said he has made some idiotic blunders himself so he shares in the blame of how poor the team is today.

Back on topic players like 44 are dinosaurs and are being phased out of the game. I am shocked at how poorly he’s performed here. Admittedly I didn’t watch a ton of Panthers games but I thought (wrongly obviously) that he would have been a solid second pairing guy. I was fine turfing Mcann but pissing away that 2nd rounder was asinine

 

[Hit the post]

Admittedly I didn’t watch a ton of Panthers games but I thought (wrongly obviously) that he would have been a solid second pairing guy.

We don't have the equivalent of who Guds was playing with on the Panthers with that top 4 icetime he got on that team. That's all on Benning as he should've known that. Guds wasn't put into a position to succeed (heck, I ain't even a fan of him and here I am defending the player).

 

[Fatass]

What does that have to do with anything? You made a claim; put your money where your mouth is or else I doubt you truly believe your claim.

This sounds like an attempt to bully a Canuck’s fan from his own board. Is it?

 

[Fatass]

Did you miss what I wrote? Wishing for, and expectations are two completely different things. In this case, yes, I wish for this team to fall to 31st next year because that's what we need to get new management, competent management. But beyond that, even without knowing who this team is going to sign in free agency, I can tell you this team won't make the playoffs. So again, if you're so confident they will let's make the bet. The fact that you're going off on what I cheer for rather than accepting the bet tells me you don't actually believe what you posted earlier.

This makes no sense. You are a fan, but want our team to lose? And no bullying tactics will keep me from cheering for my team.
Guddy and Edler will be our number one pair.
Tanev and Juiolevi will be our second pair.
These four will lead us to the playoffs.
As a true fan, I will always cheer for my team, and my team’s players to do well.

 

[Melvin]

This sounds like an attempt to bully a Canuck’s fan from his own board. Is it?

I don't see how? I frankly don't know who you are and have no reason to want you to leave.

You said "The Canucks will make the playoffs next year and Gudbranson will be a big part of it." I am trying to determine if you truly believe this, and if you do, to what extent. What are you willing to stake to this claim?

If you're not going to stake anything to it then you don't get much credit if it turns out to be true. *shrug*

I can say that I think Anders Nilsson will win the Vezina next year and look like a genius on the 0.01% chance it happens, but since I don't really believe in it so it doesn't mean much.

What if I give you 3:1? At what odds would you be willing to lay stake to your claim? 10:1?

I would like to know what you think the probability is of it happening. You can't possibly believe that it's 100% guaranteed to happen. Since you don't want to make an even-money bet, I can deduce that you think it's less than 50% as well. So what is it then?

 

[Fatass]

I don't see how? I frankly don't know who you are and have no reason to want you to leave.

You said "The Canucks will make the playoffs next year and Gudbranson will be a big part of it." I am trying to determine if you truly believe this, and if you do, to what extent. What are you willing to stake to this claim?

If you're not going to stake anything to it then you don't get much credit if it turns out to be true. *shrug*

I can say that I think Anders Nilsson will win the Vezina next year and look like a genius on the 0.01% chance it happens, but since I don't really believe in it so it doesn't mean much.

What if I give you 3:1? At what odds would you be willing to lay stake to your claim? 10:1?

I would like to know what you think the probability is of it happening. You can't possibly believe that it's 100% guaranteed to happen. Since you don't want to make an even-money bet, I can deduce that you think it's less than 50% as well. So what is it then?

Why, as Canuck’s fans, should we be required to factually support our hopeful desires for our team?
And I agree there is no chance Nilsson wins a Veszina. I don’t think he’s very good. I don’t care for Markstrom either.
I like Guddy though, and want him to do well.
I wonder if the hatred for JB from some fans extends to the players?

 

[Melvin]

Why, as Canuck’s fans, should we be required to factually support our hopeful desires for our team?
And I agree there is no chance Nilsson wins a Veszina. I don’t think he’s very good. I don’t care for Markstrom either.
I like Guddy though, and want him to do well.
I wonder if the hatred for JB from some fans extends to the players?

I guess you have answered my question then. You don't necessarily believe it, it's just a "hopeful desire." That's fair enough. Nothing wrong with desiring it to happen, but when you post that you believe it will happen, then I will question how much you believe it.

I personally hope that Boeser scores 75 goals next season but I am not going to bet on it because I don't believe it will actually happen.

Thanks for answering.

 

[VanJack]

I don't think too many posters are disillusioned with Gudbranson because they hate JB. But look at the facts.

Gudbranson cost the Canucks the equivalent a first rounder McCann; a high second (33rd overall) and a fourth....because Florida quite correctly identified him as a guy they couldn't justify re-signing to a big ticket contract. But that didn't stop the Canucks from declaring him a 'foundational player', when he clearly isn't. Then to pile on, they re-sign him to a $4m contact as a third-pairing d-man at best.

Gudrandson seems like a stand-up guy and and I'm sure he's a popular guy in the room. But just a bad trade and a bad contract for a supposedly rebuilding team.

 

[y2kcanucks]

This makes no sense. You are a fan, but want our team to lose? And no bullying tactics will keep me from cheering for my team.
Guddy and Edler will be our number one pair.
Tanev and Juiolevi will be our second pair.
These four will lead us to the playoffs.
As a true fan, I will always cheer for my team, and my team’s players to do well.

No one is trying to bully you into doing anything.

Edler-Gudbranson
Juolevi-Tanev

as our top 4 defensemen is one of the major reasons why this team won't make the playoffs. Gudbranson is a bottom pairing depth defenseman at best, and Juolevi probably should be in the AHL because he's certainly not going to be good enough to be in a playoff team's top 4 next year.

This has nothing to do with who you cheer for. You BELIEVE the Canucks will make the playoffs because of that defense. I BELIEVE otherwise. So if you strongly believe you're right then accept my $100 bet. Enough with the red herrings. Either put your money where your mouth is or......

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You don’t want the team you cheer for to make the playoffs? You would actually bet against your team doing well? You would want to see our players do poorly, rather than do well?
I don’t understand wanting to bet against your team’s success.

A couple of concepts for you:

1. I ( and Im going to guess to some extent @y2kcanucks) don't need to believe that my team is the best, for them to be my team. I've stuck around since 1994.

2. What you or I believe doesn't affect how the team actually does.

3. When you are talking about actual money in a bet, you REALLY should not bet on what you "Want to have happen." You should bet on what is likely to happen.

 

[Fatass]

No one is trying to bully you into doing anything.

Edler-Gudbranson
Juolevi-Tanev

as our top 4 defensemen is one of the major reasons why this team won't make the playoffs. Gudbranson is a bottom pairing depth defenseman at best, and Juolevi probably should be in the AHL because he's certainly not going to be good enough to be in a playoff team's top 4 next year.

This has nothing to do with who you cheer for. You BELIEVE the Canucks will make the playoffs because of that defense. I BELIEVE otherwise. So if you strongly believe you're right then accept my $100 bet. Enough with the red herrings. Either put your money where your mouth is or......

The ultimatum, “either you put you money where your mouth is or ...” is bullying.
If you’re not a Canuck’s fan, I’m fine with that. It’s your choice to cheer for whichever team you want.

 

[y2kcanucks]

A couple of concepts for you:

1. I ( and Im going to guess to some extent @y2kcanucks) don't need to believe that my team is the best, for them to be my team. I've stuck around since 1994.

2. What you or I believe doesn't affect how the team actually does.

3. When you are talking about actual money in a bet, you REALLY should not bet on what you "Want to have happen." You should bet on what is likely to happen.

There's a guy in my football pick'em league who every year makes his picks based on the teams he wants to win each game. He always finishes in last.