Salary Cap: Wet Hot Canadian Sutter (Is No More)

[Riptide]

Sincere question, or maybe I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but Zatkoff loses his job to Matt Murray so let's give Zatkoff the promotion? And if we're saying that we want Matt Murray to have more games in the AHL til he's ready, aren't we just admitting that we're killing time with Zatkoff until Murray is ready?

Murray needs games. He will not get better playing 20 games and riding the pine for the rest of the season. Zatkoff is meh... but he's good enough to be a plausible backup. And more importantly, he's dirt cheap. Hopefully MAF doesn't need someone to push him, and what we saw the last 2 seasons is what we'll get going forward.

As for sending a message that we're just killing time with Zatkoff... who cares? He's not all that good either way to really matter.

 

[888 98 twins]

I was slotting Perron into one of the spots, and Bonino will be 3rd C until Fehr comes back. BB might get a good look.

If they trade Kunitz, it should be with Bennett for an upgrade.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

If Kunitz is magically shipped out and Plotnikov has issues transitioning, who plays Top 6 LW?

Adams ghost. I think Bennett or Bonino he did it with Getzlaf-Perry

 

[WayneSid9987]

I was slotting Perron into one of the spots, and Bonino will be 3rd C until Fehr comes back. BB might get a good look.

Him too yea.

 

[Headshot77]

Couple of thoughts pertaining to the recent discussion:

1. Hell no to Cooke. Why sign a 36 year old, declining, hell-raiser 13th forward to a league minimum contract when you have Farnham who would do the same job at the same level of pay and is 10 years younger.

2. I admit that I am personally biased towards Zatkoff and he could be a decent enough NHL backup for us. However, when you have a kid who breaks records in the AHL, I think that the logical next step in his development is NHL backup.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Sincere question, or maybe I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but Zatkoff loses his job to Matt Murray so let's give Zatkoff the promotion? And if we're saying that we want Matt Murray to have more games in the AHL til he's ready, aren't we just admitting that we're killing time with Zatkoff until Murray is ready?

This is such a weird point of contention that I'm not really sure how to respond to it.

But yeah, that's exactly what they're doing, that's what every team is doing when they use a low upside player as a stopgap until prospects are ready.

2. I admit that I am personally biased towards Zatkoff and he could be a decent enough NHL backup for us. However, when you have a kid who breaks records in the AHL, I think that the logical next step in his development is NHL backup.

There's nothing logical about taking a 21 year old goalie coming off of his first pro season and sitting him on the bench for 60ish games.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea it makes no sense to start Murray as MAF's backup this year.
Let him get a full #1, in the AHL, workload and bring him up when the playoffs start is what i'd do with him.

Next year, i look into him backing up MAF.

 

[deakka]

We really should try to trade one of Scuderi/Lovejoy. Preferably Scuderi ofc.

We have a log jam at defense now with waiver eligible players. I'm not sure how the organisation view guys like Erixon and clendenning, both who has to pass through waivers. Ny guess is that Erixon was a pure contract throw in, but we actually took on an extra player with clendenning, so i have to assume the pens at least wanted him enough to use a contract spot on him. Because there wasn't necessary to move an extra contract in this trade.

In no way sorted after pairings:

Maatta - Letang
Cole - Pouliot
Scuderi - Lovejoy

top 6 is pretty set atm. So that leaves just the 7th spot to fight for. And there's a while lot fighting for it. One would have to assume dumoulin has it. That means Erixon, clendenning and The wbs signings (who some of them could also make the roster), has to pass through waivers.

I would like for it to be one more open spot on the roster to fight in camp for

 

[deakka]

There is also Andersen who will be in contention, but im not sure if he can be picked of waivers.

 

[robopigeon]

An overlooked amazing thing: We now have an actual, ideal shutdown line in Whoever - Fehr - Dupuis... which frees up Crosby's line to focus on offense. Most of his time here, Crosby was the best defensive center by default, and often took the toughest matchups. Now we can put Fehr against whoever's top line, Crosby - Horny to forecheck their 2nd line to oblivion, Malkin - Kessel on their 3rd, then Bonino (who has first line hands but third line skating) to rip apart their 4th.

Goddamn, this season could be fun.

 

[Riptide]

If Kunitz is magically shipped out and Plotnikov has issues transitioning, who plays Top 6 LW?

Currently I believe we have 2.48m in cap space with 11F and 8D and 1G on the roster. Figure Pouliot is getting called up and likely both Erixon and Clendening will be sent down. That saves us .497m. So 2.977m of cap space for 11F, 7D, 1G. Minus 600K for Zatkoff and that's 2.3m for 3 forwards (12,13,14) and whatever cap space Rutherford wants to carry into the season. Keep in mind that Fehr and his 2m will be on LTIR for the first little while. Here's a list of the forwards most likely to potentially make the roster and their cap hits.

Brigs .894m
Sundqvist .700m
Simon .692m
Sheahy .667m
Wilson .655m
Rust .652m
Farnham .575m

So basically cap wise we're fine. We can carry a full roster and have 200-300k in cap space depending on which forwards we call up (if any). Tight, but not the end of the world - especially early on when Fehr will be on LTIR giving us another 1.7m or so in space.

As for Kunitz/Plotnikov, or whomever... we have a lot of options internally to battle it out for that last spot. Bonino, Fehr, Dupuis, Bennett, Kunitz, Plotnikov, etc. Basically since getting Kessel, his skill gives us the ability to plop anyone on the other wing who will fit best with that line, and that line could still be an effective line. I mean Dupuis with his speed, and the style of game he plays could actually be an effective linemate for Crosby/Kessel. Like I said... lots of options.

Which means... if there's a half decent trade for Kunitz that makes sense, I'd jump all over it. While I still think Kunitz will bounce back and be a hell of a lot better than last season... I'd much rather someone else take that risk then us.

 

[Riptide]

Couple of thoughts pertaining to the recent discussion:

1. Hell no to Cooke. Why sign a 36 year old, declining, hell-raiser 13th forward to a league minimum contract when you have Farnham who would do the same job at the same level of pay and is 10 years younger.

2. I admit that I am personally biased towards Zatkoff and he could be a decent enough NHL backup for us. However, when you have a kid who breaks records in the AHL, I think that the logical next step in his development is NHL backup.

Agree completely on #1. I was okay with bringing in a #4C (Lappiere or whomever) to fill that center position. And I might still be good with that depending on how JR/MJ want to play Fehr and Bonino. But hell no to bringing in a meh 4th line player. We have enough internal options with Sundqvist, Rust, Wilson and whomever, that bringing in a meh winger makes zero sense.

But yeah, that's exactly what they're doing, that's what every team is doing when they use a low upside player as a stopgap until prospects are ready.

There's nothing logical about taking a 21 year old goalie coming off of his first pro season and sitting him on the bench for 60ish games.

This. Murray needs games. He had 1 pro season. MAF is signed for 4 more years. There's zero need to rush Murray or Jarry. Personally I'd let both spend significant time over the next 2-3 years in the minors. Keep them there until they (thinking specifically Murray here) need to clear waivers OR they're so good we have to call them up. Then let them push MAF for starts. But them both getting as many starts as possible over the next 2-3 years is in their best interest. Being the backup at the NHL level is not going to improve their games nearly as much as just playing and refining their skills and technique. This is where we need to follow Detroit and their development style, and keep guys in the minors a lot longer. Call them up when needed (or deserved) and give them some games to see where they're at... but in general we should be keeping players down to improve their game until they show they absolutely deserve to be in the NHL.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We really should try to trade one of Scuderi/Lovejoy. Preferably Scuderi ofc.

We have a log jam at defense now with waiver eligible players. I'm not sure how the organisation view guys like Erixon and clendenning, both who has to pass through waivers. Ny guess is that Erixon was a pure contract throw in, but we actually took on an extra player with clendenning, so i have to assume the pens at least wanted him enough to use a contract spot on him. Because there wasn't necessary to move an extra contract in this trade.

In no way sorted after pairings:

Maatta - Letang
Cole - Pouliot
Scuderi - Lovejoy

top 6 is pretty set atm. So that leaves just the 7th spot to fight for. And there's a while lot fighting for it. One would have to assume dumoulin has it. That means Erixon, clendenning and The wbs signings (who some of them could also make the roster), has to pass through waivers.

I would like for it to be one more open spot on the roster to fight in camp for

JR already said Dumo will be on that third pair. So it leaves a whole bunch of whipping boys, unknowns, and cast offs fighting for spot six.

After the way Dumo has played in WBS the last two years and how he played in this years playoffs, putting him on the bench would be asinine.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sincere question, or maybe I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but Zatkoff loses his job to Matt Murray so let's give Zatkoff the promotion? And if we're saying that we want Matt Murray to have more games in the AHL til he's ready, aren't we just admitting that we're killing time with Zatkoff until Murray is ready?

To the former, it's only a promotion in name. Do you really want Murray riding pine 65 games this year when he can play 60 plus on the AHL. And yes we are just killing time with Zatkoff until Murray is ready. Teams do that all the time.

 

[Rectify]

Does anyone else feel like BB is basically a lock to be given a good shot at succeeding this season? Management made it well known that they were unhappy with both him and Despres, and got MASSIVELY burnt on selling Despres for nothing.

I don't think they are going to take the same approach with BB, even though they may have wanted to in the past.

 

[wheelz87]

Wanted to give a quick to JR. Guy has completely turned this team over personnel wise and has given Sid and Geno every opportunity to succeed for the first time in a very long time. Why it has taken this long is beyond me. Give your two generational superstars good players to play with?? THAT'S how you should build a team?? What JR has done in a little over a year is quite remarkable. We have 3 legit top 6 wingers and a bunch of others that can easily fill in if needed. This guy gets the benefit for the Despres trade - I think we all know at this point he wasn't the one who orchestrated that blunder. This is going to be the most excited I've been for a Pens team in years. He said he wanted 4 lines that could score and I didn't believe him. I do now. The defense will be fun to watch to see who will emerge and take that next step forward. (hopefully Scuds is traded.. that will be tough though) We are down to like 1 or 2 bad contracts. You da man, JR. (now give Perron a contract before he breaks out)

 

[Rectify]

2. I admit that I am personally biased towards Zatkoff and he could be a decent enough NHL backup for us. However, when you have a kid who breaks records in the AHL, I think that the logical next step in his development is NHL backup.

That is absolutely not the next logical step, and would completely cripple his development. If he continues to flourish at the AHL level, I can see trading him in a year or two for a good forward prospect, unless we feel comfortable enough to trade Fleury.

He will see a game or two in the NHL this season to see how his game translates. As it stands, he is waaaay ahead of the development curve for goalies, which is good and bad news for the Pens.

 

[Shady Machine]

2. I admit that I am personally biased towards Zatkoff and he could be a decent enough NHL backup for us. However, when you have a kid who breaks records in the AHL, I think that the logical next step in his development is NHL backup.

Murray had a really, really good season, but it's still a small sample size. Plus, with that type of performance, he has shown NHL starter upside. Why risk stunting his development by having him ride pine for 60 games next year?

 

[Shady Machine]

An overlooked amazing thing: We now have an actual, ideal shutdown line in Whoever - Fehr - Dupuis... which frees up Crosby's line to focus on offense. Most of his time here, Crosby was the best defensive center by default, and often took the toughest matchups. Now we can put Fehr against whoever's top line, Crosby - Horny to forecheck their 2nd line to oblivion, Malkin - Kessel on their 3rd, then Bonino (who has first line hands but third line skating) to rip apart their 4th.

Goddamn, this season could be fun.

Yup I was saying that yesterday. If fully healthy, I'd run:

Perron-Sid-Hornqvist
Plots-Malkin-Kessel
Sundqvist-Fehr-Dupuis
Kunitz-Bonino-Bennett

Maatta-Letang
Pouliot-Cole
Dumoulin-Lovejoy

The 3rd line is your shutdown line and the 4th is like a 3rd line but gets more favorable offensive zone starts.

The only issues of concern are speed, possibly snarl, and a solid top 4 defenseman with grit (which we aren't going to find).

Even if this team struggles to put it all together, they are going to be entertaining as hell. MJ now has all the options he needs to play how he wants, IMO. He better make the right choices from a personnel perspective (Kunitz not in top 6, Scuderi not in regular rotation, etc).

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Does anyone else feel like BB is basically a lock to be given a good shot at succeeding this season? Management made it well known that they were unhappy with both him and Despres, and got MASSIVELY burnt on selling Despres for nothing.

I don't think they are going to take the same approach with BB, even though they may have wanted to in the past.

Doubtful. It sucks for him, and I'm excited to be able to say it, but he's down in the depth chart on the RW and he's not as good on the LW. They're also so big on respecting veterans that he won't be allowed to displace them, that I'm not excited about.

Maybe they don't Despres him but he's got to manage to stay healthy for a NHL career going forward and if they're done with him I don't see that really changing.

 

[Shady Machine]

Does anyone else feel like BB is basically a lock to be given a good shot at succeeding this season? Management made it well known that they were unhappy with both him and Despres, and got MASSIVELY burnt on selling Despres for nothing.

I don't think they are going to take the same approach with BB, even though they may have wanted to in the past.

I think they will keep him around unless they need to package him with Scuds to get out of that contract OR use him later in the year to upgrade their 2nd pairing. They should keep him though and play him with Bones and Kunitz or one of the kids. Give him some 2nd PP time and lot of offensive zone starts and let him get some confidence.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

GMJR mentioned that he's still looking for a 4th line forward and he a D... and made note that given their new found depth up front, they will probably have to use one of those assets to improve their D.

Leads me to believe that Kunitz or Bennett will be shopped. Probably Kunitz given that Bennett won't free up any cap space. Bennett could be moved as I do not see him as a please thriving in a bottom 6 role but only as a sweetener in a package including an overpayed vet like Kunitz or Scuderi.

Thus far, its an amazing offseason... for a nice change

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Does anyone else feel like BB is basically a lock to be given a good shot at succeeding this season? Management made it well known that they were unhappy with both him and Despres, and got MASSIVELY burnt on selling Despres for nothing.

I don't think they are going to take the same approach with BB, even though they may have wanted to in the past.

It honestly comes down to his ability to play LW. The top two RW on this team aren't going anywhere save an injury. There are two LW spots up for grabs in the top six if he really wants one.

He had this to say about playing his off wing and its echoed the same thing I've said for years:

"“I actually like entering the zone on the off-wing like that,” he said. “You have more options when you're on your off-wing, which I like. And I think it's easier to drive to the net on your backhand. So it's not a problem at all, really. It's just different.”

The problem is catching outlet passes on his back hand and working the boards in his own end. However, that's all about repetition. If he makes a serious commitment to work on those weaknesses, they shouldn't be issues.

It's all about seeing that opportunity and knowing what he needs to work on before camp to give himself the best chance to win one of those LW spots. There is no reason he can't spend an hour a day taking outlet passes on his off wing to turn that weakness into a strength. It's not rocket surgery here.

If I can see that opportunity for him, there is no excuse he can't see it as well.

 

[Jacob]

I don't really see any reason to keep Bennett around. Hornqvist and Kessel will be around a while, Perron might be also. Bonino might be moved to the LW for the top 6. There's no room for Bennett even if he does pan out.

 

[Penguinator]

I don't really see any reason to keep Bennett around. Hornqvist and Kessel will be around a while, Perron might be also. Bonino might be moved to the LW for the top 6. There's no room for Bennett even if he does pan out.

Maybe but you'd at least wait for him to pan out before trading him.

Let's suppose he isn't injured & shows progression next season. You wait 'til the TDL, package him & ship him for a 2nd pairing Dman.

This said he'll have to pan out on the bottom 6 but at least it'll be more of a scoring line.