Washington wins the lottery

[Kabers]

Certainly doesn't hurt having a few of the bottom teams lose a few extra to improve their percentages. But what would it have gained the Caps to lose another game or two?

Not quite sure.

And a simple reminder, the Capitals were dead last in the NHL (for a few weeks) with Jagr, Gonchar, Lang, Grier, Kolzig playing (although quite poorly) and so on.

Nicely put. People forget that even with all the Jagr, Bondra, Gonchar we were the worst team in the NHL for a while there and never rose above the bottom 5. Even with them gone and management basically giving up all hope on us, we still managed to play with a lot more heart, win some games, and finish the season with some pride. Could've tanked those final few games at Pitt and Boston but instead we came to play.

The Pens didn't actually pick up their play until they set a new record with an 18 game losing streak and had securely wrapped up the bottom slot.

Even if we had tanked the final week, there's not much more that could've gotten us anyway. Losing a few more games when you have nothing left to hope for in the season isn't going to damage the credibility of the game. Especially not when you have the lottery in place which, despite what some may think, worked exactly the way it's supposed to.

 

[clefty]

You are right that many teams showed signs of following the Penguins despicable strategy. Just shows how horrible the situation is and how bad the lottery system is!

The Pens management sucks on purpose. Craig patrick is, IMO, a good general manager. He's proven it in the past. He's excellent. he simply has been Mario's lackey for a number of years now. He's great, he just doesn't have any balls.

They made an effort at least. They tried early on. The pens just had a masterplan from day one. A sad, shameful, unethical masterplan to finish last. They tried to turn hockey into a clownish sideshow. I am SO glad that they failed. I'm thrilled that all the efforts to suck, the unloading of good veterans for bag of pucks, the efforts to instill a climate of crappy play and the great loss of revenues because of all this have all been for nothing. Absolutely nothing

Today is a great day for hockey. A conscious long term plan to lose failed. Hopefully it alleviates the effect this crappy system has on teams

I've come to expect much more from your posts.

Moving right along, no one tanked this season. With the draft lottery in place, it doesn't make sense to do so. Even if the Caps and Pens tanked (which they didn't) and even if it was their plan to lose (which it wasn't) they're both getting a franchise forward each, so who cares? Question how they got to that position all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that ther two best players in the draft are going to Washington and Pittsburgh. I'm just glad I'm a fan of one of them.

Additionally, the lottery, in the grand scheme of things, is fair. As a Pens fan, you wont hear a single complaint from me about drafting Evgeni Malkin.

Ove's going to Washington. Fine by me.

 

[bleedgreen]

Sending Eminger, Gordon, and them down WAS in fact to help Portland make a playoff push. Why have them suffer losses in the NHL and not gain much experience when they could gain playoff experience in the AHL if they make it? That was management's plan - have the young guys gain playoff experience while creating chemistry both on and off the ice. It makes perfect sense to me. If the Caps were in the playoff hunt when they got sent down, then yes, it would have looked shady. But the fact is we were already way out of the playoffs. So why not have one team make the playoffs instead of none? This also explains why Yeats was playing in the NHL. Ouellet and Stana are the goalies in Portland and have been doing an awesome job. So we're not going to all of a sudden get Yeats and play him in Portland when we already have two goalies who are having great seasons. Plus, Yeats posted a 3.12 GAA and a .908 save %. That's not bad, so obviously he wasn't in there to purposely lose games. Heck, Kolzig's numbers this year were a 2.89 GAA and a .908 save % (yes, that's the same save % as Yeats). So the difference between Yeats and Olie was .23 goals a game. We must have really been trying to lose games! A whole .23 goals per game!

you misunderstand a little. i dont think for a second that the players were trying to lose, of course they didnt. the results were .23 a game....fine, that doesnt mean management wasnt giving the team the best chance to lose, does it? im not saying they were successful at tanking, just that they were giving it a little push. you say where else would yeats play with 2 goalies there....the ahl! where he was signed to play! you cant tell me for a second they ever signed yeats to play in the nhl. if they did then they were absolutly tanking. he was signed to an ahl tryout - he should be there with oullette getting valueable experience at the show before heading back top the ahl playoffs. youre also avoiding the earlier point about priorities. no team puts their ahl team before their nhl team, no matter how bad the nhl team is. eminger and gordon had already been in the nhl, and were doing fine, sending them down is questionable because there was no pressure on them at all to produce - the caps were already out. in that situation its much better to have them getting experience in the nhl, they still had plenty of time to send them down later. you can sell it anyway you like, but it looks shady for a team thats out of contention to send its best young players to the minors instead of giving them experience at the nhl level. they could've sent them back last week and accomplished all they wanted for the ahl experience - instead of a month and a half ago.

 

[Evilo]

Karma is a *****. Lemieux and patrick tried to screw the system and got exactly what they deserved!

I couldn't be happier for the Caps! I was rooting for the Hawks to get it, them being an original 6 team and having a really kickass fanbase but the Caps can use Ovechkin. They don't exactly have all that many quality youngsters anyway. The owner has shown in the recent past a real desire to win but an inability to do so.

This may have been for the best. Now all the Capitals need is to fire crappy-George and they're in business!

Hopefully, this will be a lesson to teams who play to lose. And it sure should be a lesson for the Pens fans who spent months embarassing themselves and their team with those crappy Ovechkin jerseys.

The next step should be to make sure this never happens again. Those race for the bottom of the standings hurt the credibility of hockey greatly. It's an embarassment to what this game is about.

Yes you're absolutely right.
The best prospect should go to the team with the healthy owner that tried to lose rather than the team without money that had no other choice but losing.
Thanks you for making such ridculous comment.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

All this talk of tanking games and the credibility of the league is garbage, whether it's the Capitals, Blue Jackets or Penguins...or even the Nordiques of the late 80's/early 90's.

I find it funny that people actually have a problem with the system. The Caps just proved that the system works. Nothing can be taken for granted. At the same time, ensuring a bottom-five spot when your team is going NOWHERE is simply smart management in today's world of sports. A long rebuilding process is painful, no doubt about it, but the rewards are usually long-lasting.

What I find 'shameful' is making the playoffs 25 years in a row, and NEVER making the Cup finals (I suppose 1986 was the Blues' closest call). Wallowing in mediocrity, now THAT's a surefire way to lose a fan base. At least lottery teams have some excitement going on at this time of the year, and gives fans of these teams something to talk about.

It's funny but it took a mass exodus of players for the Caps to finally become an entertaining club...

Bottom line: Massive rebuilding sucks but it's a necessary evil at some point for virtually every major professional sports franchise.

 

[EroCaps]

Yes you're absolutely right.
The best prospect should go to the team with the healthy owner that tried to lose rather than the team without money that had no other choice but losing.
Thanks you for making such ridculous comment.

we tried so hard to lose that we dominated you head to head after your management worked you to death...4-1.

 

[Mothra]

eminger and gordon had already been in the nhl, and were doing fine, sending them down is questionable because there was no pressure on them at all to produce - the caps were already out. in that situation its much better to have them getting experience in the nhl, they still had plenty of time to send them down later. you can sell it anyway you like, but it looks shady for a team thats out of contention to send its best young players to the minors instead of giving them experience at the nhl level. they could've sent them back last week and accomplished all they wanted for the ahl experience - instead of a month and a half ago.

well.....they werent doing "fine".....and many would and have said they struggled in the AHL......

I have no problem with them being sent down instead of playing on a loser team....the best thing for their development was to play in the AHL...whether you agree or not doesnt matter

 

[Evilo]

Did you deal your players for money purposes or rather to start from scratch and tank?
Yep. Pittsburgh traded because they had to.
Something Vlad can't understand it seems probably because of his personnal vendetta with Mario.
Vlad, do you realize that the Penguins are losing (not that much but still) money this season? Even with the payroll they have? How would you expect CP and Mario to pay the stars they used to have?

 

[Mothra]

Yes you're absolutely right.
The best prospect should go to the team with the healthy owner that tried to lose rather than the team without money that had no other choice but losing.
Thanks you for making such ridculous comment.

talk about ridculous comments.....

"healthy owner that tried to lose "

Caps for years are a lunch pale group....he decides to open up the wallet in order to win...it doesnt work...for whatever reason....then...instead of hanging on and trying to re-tool....they blow it up in one season...get what they can.....and try to put themselves in the best position for a new CBA....Leonsis wants nothing more than to win....they were a bottom team ALL season....save for Semin, most of the prospects they had on the NHL team were struggling (Semin too at times).....so they did what was best for their development...the sent them down

how about the fact they didnt trade/give away Witt or Kolzig at the trading deadline. You think no one wanted these guys? And its not like they flirted with a playoff spot at all this year......if they had been even remotely close and then moved all the players...then fell into the lottery you might have something....of course thats not what happened......and I'm pretty sure they were in the bottom 5 for most/all of the season.......

 

[EroCaps]

Did you deal your players for money purposes or rather to start from scratch and tank?
Yep. Pittsburgh traded because they had to.
Something Vlad can't understand it seems probably because of his personnal vendetta with Mario.
Vlad, do you realize that the Penguins are losing (not that much but still) money this season? Even with the payroll they have? How would you expect CP and Mario to pay the stars they used to have?

We dealt our players for money reasons, and then hockey reasons.

We were losing too much money to afford Jagr's salary and the entourage he requires to appear dominant. We couldn't afford any more players.

We weren't going to win with our veteran group, and our young guys would have taken too long to contribute towards contention.

We didn't tank, either, we just stunk. We never had an 18-game losing streak, or blatantly flunked a head-to-head.

 

[Jacob]

So.. Why then did Matt Yeats get back-to-back-to-back starts?

We've been through this discussion before. You insinuate that the Penguins made maneuvers to assure last overall, but never admit that the Capitals did the same.

 

[Mothra]

Did you deal your players for money purposes or rather to start from scratch and tank?
Yep. Pittsburgh traded because they had to.

what does it matter why?

The Caps were terrible ALL season.....and have been losing money for years...If it werent for a great run by Pit the race for last place (that sounds wierd) would not have been even close.....I'm sure finishing last....even had the Caps aimed for that....would not have seriously crossed their mind because who would have expected the Pens to pick it up and do so well down the stretch

again.....its not like they were the 12th worst team and then nose dived at the end.....the stunk all season and finished pretty close to where they were ALL season

 

[Mothra]

So.. Why then did Matt Yeats get back-to-back-to-back starts?

We've been through this discussion before. You insinuate that the Penguins made maneuvers to assure last overall, but never admit that the Capitals did the same.

I know you arent talking to me....I never said anything even like that

as for starting yeats....who cares...again...not like they werent in the bottom 5 already......and maybe the fact that he played pretty well they gave him another start....had he stunk who is to say he wouldnt have been one and done

 

[EroCaps]

So.. Why then did Matt Yeats get back-to-back-to-back starts?

We've been through this discussion before. You insinuate that the Penguins made maneuvers to assure last overall, but never admit that the Capitals did the same.

Because starting a guy in four games who'll never see anymore NHL action seemed like the compassionate thing to do. It's not like he played poorly, he finished with a .908. Kolzig actually looked worse against the Rangers and Bruins.

 

[Jacob]

Compassion, you say? So the only thing someone needs to get to the NHL is pity?

They had more deserving goaltenders. Sure, they could have argued that Stana and Ouellet were helping Portland, but BOTH goaltenders can't be in net in the same game (unless Army has revised his system). The logical thing to do would be to play Stana a few games down there, and bring up Ouellet. Then send him back down, and bring up Stana, right? That's what was being done earlier in the season.

And the "pity callups" don't end with Yeats. Look at Stroshein and Angelstad. I was happy for Angelstad when I saw his between-periods interview with Craig Laughlin, but still, there's something wrong when journeymen AHLers get powerplay duty in the NHL. Angelstad himself said he was playing more in Washington than he was in Portland.

.and maybe the fact that he played pretty well they gave him another start....had he stunk who is to say he wouldnt have been one and done

He lost his first two games. I don't care what the scoresheet says, I saw with my own two eyes a kid that looked like he had never put on goalie pads in his life. He was fighting every puck, and it was a miracle Atlanta didn't light him up.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Vlad, do you realize that the Penguins are losing (not that much but still) money this season? Even with the payroll they have? How would you expect CP and Mario to pay the stars they used to have?

By making the playoffs? By strengthening the fanbase thanks to showing pride and playing to the best of your abilities? I dunno, seems to me there's an awful lot they could do, without spending too much money.

Hiring coaches that are actually qualified instead of Mario's boyfriends would be a start. having some structure at all levels to establish credibility. The bottom line for me is that the Penguins, as an organizations, have been a disgrace this year. A disgrace that hurt hockey.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Yes you're absolutely right.
The best prospect should go to the team with the healthy owner that tried to lose rather than the team without money that had no other choice but losing.
Thanks you for making such ridculous comment.

At least, the Caps tried. The Penguins? They made it very clear from day one they were absolutely not interested in putting a decent product for their fans.

The management there is hurting hockey in Pittsburgh, and hockey at large. Nobody needs such a team in this league. I will never understand why some people continue to support the horrible string of decisions that have been made the last few years.

You are right, the Caps weren't much better. Both teams were guilty. I'm just glad Pittsburgh lost, because they made it so clear they were after Ovechkin for much longer.

I fail to see how the Pittsburgh are ever going to generate money. They are in the sports/entertainment business. The way to make money there is to compete and entertain.

 

[bleedgreen]

well.....they werent doing "fine".....and many would and have said they struggled in the AHL......

I have no problem with them being sent down instead of playing on a loser team....the best thing for their development was to play in the AHL...whether you agree or not doesnt matter

thats the point of all this isnt it? expressing opinions about what we see - i dont see why you would go that way with this. your opinion doesnt matter any more than mine. he argued his side, i argued mine....i have no problem with it so im not sure why you would.

 

[bleedgreen]

how about the fact they didnt trade/give away Witt or Kolzig at the trading deadline. You think no one wanted these guys? And its not like they flirted with a playoff spot at all this year......if they had been even remotely close and then moved all the players...then fell into the lottery you might have something....of course thats not what happened......and I'm pretty sure they were in the bottom 5 for most/all of the season.......

i dont think for a second anyone wanted kolzig unless the caps were picking up a ton of salary. any rumour otherwise was washington creating hype. you cant give them any credibility because they didnt trade kolzig, if ANYONE wouldve picked up that contract he would have been gone.....he didnt stay because they wanted to keep him.

 

[Jacob]

At least, the Caps tried. The Penguins? They made it very clear from day one they were absolutely not interested in putting a decent product for their fans.

The management there is hurting hockey in Pittsburgh, and hockey at large. Nobody needs such a team in this league. I will never understand why some people continue to support the horrible string of decisions that have been made the last few years.

You are right, the Caps weren't much better. Both teams were guilty. I'm just glad Pittsburgh lost, because they made it so clear they were after Ovechkin for much longer.

Come back to us if they continue to dump off salaries and remain uncompetitive for the next few years. The Penguins didn't lie to anyone. They are rebuilding, they admitted it, they asked their fans to be patient. So far, so good. I've never known of a team to finish last and still have a largely positive season.

I fail to see how the Pittsburgh are ever going to generate money. They are in the sports/entertainment business. The way to make money there is to compete and entertain

They've spent the last 3 years dumping salaries, not the last 30. The idea being that they need to hold tight until they get an arena built, and possibly even a favorable CBA.

I fail to see how finishing in the bottom 5 with a 75 million dollar payroll is somehow better than finishing in the bottom 5 with a 25 million dollar payroll. You argue that "at least they tried", but that's bull. Trying doesn't count, you have to execute. Leonsis looks like worse of a business man than Lemieux, because at least Lemieux has excuses.

In the end, I think that the Penguins season was more productive than Washington's, only because they KNEW they were rebuilding and they gave a lot of young guys a chance to establish themselves in the NHL. Washington didn't officially start their rebuild until February, and even then, they don't really have a plethora of young players on their roster.

Hiring coaches that are actually qualified instead of Mario's boyfriends would be a start. having some structure at all levels to establish credibility. The bottom line for me is that the Penguins, as an organizations, have been a disgrace this year. A disgrace that hurt hockey.

You know who you remind me of? Pierre McGuire. That guy's opinion on all things hockey is money, but if you bring up the Pittsburgh Penguins, he turns into sour grapes. He's a disgruntled former employee, what are YOUR reasons?

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

How was what the Penguins did shameful and unethical? They finished last. But they were there since day one. Clownish sideshow? I mean, that's just a tad harsh.

How does a team plan to lose long-term? And why? And how is that worse than a make shift plan to lose, such as the Capitals and Rangers are doing?

They were not there since day one. The Pens had more points than the Caps as late as the second week of Jan. It took an absolute collapse by the Pens for the Caps to make any separation.

The Caps didn't trade away stars to start losing. They had been doing it since the start of the season. An AHL defense will do that to a team.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I fail to see how finishing in the bottom 5 with a 75 million dollar payroll is somehow better than finishing in the bottom 5 with a 25 million dollar payroll. You argue that "at least they tried", but that's bull. Trying doesn't count, you have to execute

You know what? You're absolutely right from a sports point of view!

It's pretty pathetic to fail with a 75M payroll, no question. That's the hockey nuts in me speaking. We all know one thing HAS to finish last and we all know one goalie has to have the worst save percentage and so on...

It's part of a 30-team environment that one will be crowned king for a year and one will be the top loser. It's all fun as long as everyone tries.

Where it's no fun is when you don't try. Is Lemieux a smarter hockey guy than Leonsis? Most probably. But he is terribly misguided and is simply not trying hard. I care about this sport and I think it is in the interest of all fans (and even more in the interest of Pittsburgh fans) to have a league where people try. Otherwise, it cheapens the sport.

It seems pretty obvious to me that we disagree on that. I happen to think highly of organizations such as the Wild. They try. Everybody should try. I know some organizations don't try as hard, and I don't look too favorably toward them. And when I see an organization not trying at all, and making a parody of the NHL, I don't like it.

We seem to disagree on this, which is unfortunate. But hey, if you're fine with the way things are in the NHL, I am not. In this era of overscouting, it will become increasingly clear that the next step after the CBA will be to have a healthy competitive league and I think the best way to achieve this will be to award the best lottery slot to the 17th team overall, not the 30th.

If you're fine with people who give up, I am not. If the Minnesota Wild were able to achieve results from the start with NOTHING, nobody will ever make me believe the Pens couldn't do likewise. The money thing does not change the fact you can and MUST try to win. There are cheap free agents, import UFAs. Instead of dumping Jagr for picks you could have acquire a couple of cheap youngsters, sure things. Instead you end up with three guys who are in limbo and further sucking up ressorces instead of helping.

Small shortsighted gains don't always pay up in the long run. The decisions the Pens have taken to save a few penny are costing them more than they gain. The fanbase will need to be won back, the team has totally gave up on playoffs revenue.

The Pens are a mess that was created on purpose. It is also undeniable that they do not follow the spirit of hockey. It's a game where you try to win. They didn't give a flying **** about that.

It's wrong.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

You know who you remind me of? Pierre McGuire. That guy's opinion on all things hockey is money, but if you bring up the Pittsburgh Penguins, he turns into sour grapes. He's a disgruntled former employee, what are YOUR reasons?

That's a good question. What are my reasons?

The fact is, when I told the truth about Button, I was anti-Button. When I was telling the truth about Dudley, I was anti-Dudley. Now I'm anti-Mario.

It's bullcrap. I call it like it is. I can accept that you disagree with me. I don't feel the need to discredit your opinion by asking you if you're Mario's cousin.

I think you should consider whether it is possible that I am simply calling it like I see it, for no particular reasons. I will give credit to the Pens, to Mario, to Craig Patrick or to anyone when I feel they deserve some.

I have no problem with you thinking I am wrong. All I can say is that there's no bias here. I wish nothing but the best to Pittsburgh fans as long as it is all done in fair play and doesn't hurt the interests of the league and fans of hockey at large.

 

[JDB3939]

That's a good question. What are my reasons?

The fact is, when I told the truth about Button, I was anti-Button. When I was telling the truth about Dudley, I was anti-Dudley. Now I'm anti-Mario.

It's bullcrap. I call it like it is. I can accept that you disagree with me. I don't feel the need to discredit your opinion by asking you if you're Mario's cousin.

I think you should consider whether it is possible that I am simply calling it like I see it, for no particular reasons. I will give credit to the Pens, to Mario, to Craig Patrick or to anyone when I feel they deserve some.

I have no problem with you thinking I am wrong. All I can say is that there's no bias here. I wish nothing but the best to Pittsburgh fans as long as it is all done in fair play and doesn't hurt the interests of the league and fans of hockey at large.

Teams tank to get high picks. It's a fact of sports. How do the Raiders go from Super Bowl contenders to top 2 pick in just a year?

The Nordiques did it. The Penguins have done it. Ottawa did it. Quebec did it. And Washington, Pittsburgh, and Chicago all tried to do it this year. Chicago just couldn't keep Ruutu from scoring late in the season and he kept them out of the cellar. And damn near every team was set to do it when Gretzky draft year was coming up (only skipped the draft on a technicality which I STILL think is WRONG).

This is a fact of sports. Losing teams want some kind of "reward" if you would call it that for losing. And that is a super prospect like Ovechkin.

You complain with the lottery system being flawed and awarding the bottom 5 teams the top player. Would you prefer the rich get richer and Colorado or Detriot win Ovechkin in a lottery including the whole league? No you wouldn't. No one would but Colorado or Detriot fans.

The Penguins sucked this year. The Caps did too. Face it. You can't change it. So why sit here and dwell on something that has already happened? Maybe it wasn't right, but the economics of the game aren't right either. I don't see you being in an uproar about that. If you could come up with a way to pay the 50+ million dollar player salary budget the Penguins would no doubt have with Jagr, Kovalev and company I'm sure they would have been willing to toss in a Cup contending season just for you. But since they are broke, they fielded a young team with the hopes of landing the next franchise savior.

They were honest, they knew this year was going to be bad. As a Pens fan, I'm glad they didn't try to lie to us and say we were going to make the playoffs. Call it a rebuilding year and call it a loss. And this year was not totally to tank to get Ovechkin. It was to give ice time to the young guys in this system and see if they could develop. And ya know what? It worked! Orpik, Koltsov, and Kraft all thrived and are showing they have what it takes to be impact players. Morozov is finally putting that "potential" we've been hearing about for years to work.

 

[Mothra]

thats the point of all this isnt it? expressing opinions about what we see - i dont see why you would go that way with this. your opinion doesnt matter any more than mine. he argued his side, i argued mine....i have no problem with it so im not sure why you would.

I never said my opinion was more valid than yours...or anyones for that matter....

You did state that many of the prospects were "doing fine" in the NHL and I really dont see it that way......and most that follow the team feel the same.....they looked ok at times but often overmatched and out of place......there were panic threads on this in the Caps board showing how none of these guys can score even at the AHL level....how Eminger had zero points in 30+ games in the A (he now has 1 point in 37 games in the AHL this season...and is -7)

These guys were sent down because they were not ready....not so they (the Caps) would lose......I am of the belief that had they called up those guys and stuck it out with them.....they would have been a worse team then they were down the stretch anyway