Ville de Québec Partie XII: Attendez patiemment

[Killion]

Isn't saying the team is in the death throws and in huge trouble and readily believing some guy saying there is 5k at a game just as bad as believing Viola, Barroway & Bettman? You were another one Killion that thought that the Panthers were done after this season. Now that that's clearly not happening and the puck will drop in Sunrise in 2015, you can't just move the goal posts and say they're gone after 2016.

As I dont believe much of anything Bettman has to say about Arizona or Florida to begin with, and as one cannot expect candor from either Barroway or Viola.... and that a poster, who has absolutely nothing whatsoever to gain comes here affirming what most have "assumed" to be the case despite the denials from league personnel & team ownership.... then ya, Im gunna go with the Member & my gut, what Ive read in the media & heard through the grapevine. I dont expect the Panthers to survive.... Sorry.... Just do not see Broward caving to their demands, dont see Viola turning the ship around... simply cannot withstand & will not sit still with those kinds of losses mounting. Not happening... That teams in play, a potential Relocation Candidate even more so than Arizona. As for when? Likely 2016/17. All contingent on the County, Consultants Report and I dont see that going over well with the elected officials who are well aware of the fact that if they do give further concessions to the club the Chamber of Commerce, Hotel Association & Tourist Board along with the Taxpayers will absolutely crucify them.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Yeah when crosby and malkin quits we better move the Pens.. in 2006 they where closer a relocation then Panthers ever been. With the amount of bandwaggon fans its easy to think Pens have allways been supportive. With Lemiuex, Crosby, Malkin and prime Jagr any market can survive.

A big difference between Pittsburgh then and Florida now is the arena. The Pens struggled mightily in the charming but antiquated Igloo, located one the edge of its struggling downtown core. I've been there for games, and it was truly awful. Florida has one of the nicest arenas in the NHL, located next to a huge shopping mall. At least in Pittsburgh there was hope that a new arena would make the team more profitable ... no such hope can be found with the Panthers.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

As I dont believe much of anything Bettman has to say about Arizona or Florida to begin with, and as one cannot expect candor from either Barroway or Viola.... and that a poster, who has absolutely nothing whatsoever to gain comes here affirming what most have "assumed" to be the case despite the denials from league personnel & team ownership.... then ya, Im gunna go with the Member & my gut, what Ive read in the media & heard through the grapevine. I dont expect the Panthers to survive.... Sorry.... Just do not see Broward caving to their demands, dont see Viola turning the ship around... simply cannot withstand & will not sit still with those kinds of losses mounting. Not happening... That teams in play, a potential Relocation Candidate even more so than Arizona. As for when? Likely 2016/17. All contingent on the County, Consultants Report and I dont see that going over well with the elected officials who are well aware of the fact that if they do give further concessions to the club the Chamber of Commerce, Hotel Association & Tourist Board along with the Taxpayers will absolutely crucify them.

Killion last summer you said this was the Panthers last year because you didn't see how those losses were sustainable and that new ownership couldn't turn it around, you can't just keep moving the date down by one year, that's cheating.

As for attendance, if the Panthers are averaging 5k a game, that means one of 2 things: either they were giving away 10k tickets for years, or 5k tickets and the attendance has declined 50% this year for some reason. I don't find the latter makes much sense, and if they gave away 10k tickets away their revenue totals wouldn't be where they are, so I'll believe Mr. Richards.

 

[Killion]

Killion last summer you said this was the Panthers last year because you didn't see how those losses were sustainable and that new ownership couldn't turn it around, you can't just keep moving the date down by one year, that's cheating.

As for attendance, if the Panthers are averaging 5k a game, that means one of 2 things: either they were giving away 10k tickets for years, or 5k tickets and the attendance has declined 50% this year for some reason. I don't find the latter makes much sense, and if they gave away 10k tickets away their revenue totals wouldn't be where they are, so I'll believe Mr. Richards.

... welp, I sure dont remember saying definitively this year or even next was "thats it thats all folks". Not like me to prognosticate definitively in cases that are clearly in flux. I wouldve said something along the lines of "this could be it for the Panthers" but no, not "this is it". No way. The Consultants Report had been delayed, there was an Election etc, a lot of moving parts.... As for the anemic attendance, thats got much to do with the previous regime, Yormark et al, how they conflabulated numbers, on & on. Viola & his crew move in, put a stop to all of it, get back to basics, and my God, look at what their facing? Totally unsustainable. Broward doesnt come through, Im sorry hanzal, that teams a goner but that wont be decided until we hear from the County. I knew that last summer, decision was supposed to be made, delayed, delayed yet again... but the axe will fall if it doesnt favor the Panthers.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

... welp, I sure dont remember saying definitively this year or even next was "thats it thats all folks". Not like me to prognosticate definitively in cases that are clearly in flux. I wouldve said something along the lines of "this could be it for the Panthers" but no, not "this is it". No way. The Consultants Report had been delayed, there was an Election etc, a lot of moving parts.... As for the anemic attendance, thats got much to do with the previous regime, Yormark et al, how they conflabulated numbers, on & on. Viola & his crew move in, put a stop to all of it, get back to basics, and my God, look at what their facing? Totally unsustainable. Broward doesnt come through, Im sorry hanzal, that teams a goner but that wont be decided until we hear from the County. I knew that last summer, decision was supposed to be made, delayed, delayed yet again... but the axe will fall if it doesnt favor the Panthers.

This is OT so this will be all I have to say on the subject, and I know I can't change your opinion anyways, but if you look through the Coyotes megathread you have posts in there saying that the team is as good as done. How did that turn out? Lasted another 5-7 years minimum. Would seem unwise to assume a team was as good as gone, especially in the NHL. Anything can happen. Not over till the moving trucks are in Sunrise. I will add that if the decision goes against them in the summer (if it even happens then), even if 15/16 is a "dead in the water" season, it won't appear that way, as you know the NHL doesn't operate like that. Lots to play out still.

 

[Killion]

Lots to play out still.

... Now that, you and I agree on, and believe me, I take no delight in this situation.
... It aint fair, should never have been allowed to have reached such depths.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

A big difference between Pittsburgh then and Florida now is the arena. The Pens struggled mightily in the charming but antiquated Igloo, located one the edge of its struggling downtown core. I've been there for games, and it was truly awful. Florida has one of the nicest arenas in the NHL, located next to a huge shopping mall. At least in Pittsburgh there was hope that a new arena would make the team more profitable ... no such hope can be found with the Panthers.

Only thing that keept pens in Pittsbrugh twice was Lemieux and Crosby.. but keep telling yourself it was the arena. One would also think MiamiHockey was pro Florida Only one thing differs Tampa from Panthers a winning product no more no less

 

[Glacial]

but if you look through the Coyotes megathread you have posts in there saying that the team is as good as done.

You're making the assumption one person can look through the megathread to find it. We're talking over 100 threads that reached the after-this-post-count-lock-it threshold. Maybe with a dedicated team of megathread researchers one can put all the comments and predictions in order. Heck, keeping the cast of characters who come and go from the Coyotes & Glendale was quite a task in itself.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Only thing that keept pens in Pittsbrugh twice was Lemieux and Crosby.. but keep telling yourself it was the arena. One would also think MiamiHockey was pro Florida Only one thing differs Tampa from Panthers a winning product no more no less

Breaking News: the Panthers have reached the Stanley Cup Final, and attendance was awful then, too.

Miami is really not a sports town. The Marlins moved into a beautiful stadium, located close to the core of the Miami population that should support them, and yet they draw very poorly. I've been to Dolphins games, Hurricanes games, Marlins games, and in every case the stadium was less than half full. In fact, last season I went to two Panthers games in which I paid less than $25 each time to sit in the 8th Row on the Blueline ... and both times my son and I were the only people in our row.

I'd much rather see a team in Quebec than a team in South Florida. Canadians know and love hockey and will support their team.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Breaking News: the Panthers have reached the Stanley Cup Final, and attendance was awful then, too.

Miami is really not a sports town. The Marlins moved into a beautiful stadium, located close to the core of the Miami population that should support them, and yet they draw very poorly. I've been to Dolphins games, Hurricanes games, Marlins games, and in every case the stadium was less than half full. In fact, last season I went to two Panthers games in which I paid less than $25 each time to sit in the 8th Row on the Blueline ... and both times my son and I were the only people in our row.

I'd much rather see a team in Quebec than a team in South Florida. Canadians know and love hockey and will support their team.

Well thats your opinion. Thing is at the current dollar rate i doubt Qubecc can even afford to 1. Buy team from Viola 2. Buyout 22+ year lease 3. Convince Bettman

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The only thing that is a concern is 3.

Quebecor is a media conglemerate. Synergy baby.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Well thats your opinion. Thing is at the current dollar rate i doubt Qubecc can even afford to 1. Buy team from Viola 2. Buyout 22+ year lease 3. Convince Bettman

Yes, that is my opinion.

But, you need to know this about Quebec:

1) They are building a spectacular arena. A huge issue when they moved was the size of Le Colisee.
2) The owners of the new arena are Quebecor ... a multi-billion dollar corporation that just happens to own the NHL broadcast rights in Quebec, and paid handsomely for them.
3) Quebecor has deep, deep, deep pockets. More importantly, they have a vested interest in having an NHL team whose games they can broadcast to their media customers in Quebec.

So, 1. buying the team will not be an issue for Quebecor
2. Breaking a lease that provides funds to the team will not be difficult.
3. Bettman is already convinced (check out the amount that Quebecor paid for the NHL rights) ... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/hockeys-french-connection/article15642270/

I certainly admire the few loyal Panthers fans I see at the game. But Quebecor has everything lined up for an NHL franchise, and my opinion is that it will be the Panthers to move.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Yes, that is my opinion.

But, you need to know this about Quebec:

1) They are building a spectacular arena. A huge issue when they moved was the size of Le Colisee.
2) The owners of the new arena are Quebecor ... a multi-billion dollar corporation that just happens to own the NHL broadcast rights in Quebec, and paid handsomely for them.
3) Quebecor has deep, deep, deep pockets. More importantly, they have a vested interest in having an NHL team whose games they can broadcast to their media customers in Quebec.

So, 1. buying the team will not be an issue for Quebecor
2. Breaking a lease that provides funds to the team will not be difficult.
3. Bettman is already convinced (check out the amount that Quebecor paid for the NHL rights) ... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/hockeys-french-connection/article15642270/

I certainly admire the few loyal Panthers fans I see at the game. But Quebecor has everything lined up for an NHL franchise, and my opinion is that it will be the Panthers to move.

If so why not just pay the 450 million dollar expansion fee and get it over with.. I guess you can survive a few years in western conference and later on switch with Columbus.. Panthers have money owners Columbus seems like they have not.. and its a owners game after all

 

[Scandale du Jour]

If so why not just pay the 450 million dollar expansion fee and get it over with.. I guess you can survive a few years in western conference and later on switch with Columbus.. Panthers have money owners Columbus seems like they have not.. and its a owners game after all

The Panthers are already in the "right" division + the league wants to go to Vegas and Seattle.

Believe me, we all would prefer an expansion team (even though from a hockey standpoint, I would prefer an established team) over "stealing" a team from another market. At the end of the day, I will still celebrate like crazy... and likely drink myself to death... IF (and it is a big IF) we get a team via relocation.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

The Panthers are already in the "right" division + the league wants to go to Vegas and Seattle.

Believe me, we all would prefer an expansion team (even though from a hockey standpoint, I would prefer an established team) over "stealing" a team from another market. At the end of the day, I will still celebrate like crazy... and likely drink myself to death... IF (and it is a big IF) we get a team via relocation.

Well If that ever happens it will most likely kill my interest for NHL but If not i sure hope your fan base can stay classy and who knows i might even join it.. still the same team and nobody knows it like the fans on this board.. with that said i do not doubt the new ownership and i think they can give new life to the cat.. time will tell

 

[Ugmo]

Well If that ever happens it will most likely kill my interest for NHL but If not i sure hope your fan base can stay classy and who knows i might even join it.. still the same team and nobody knows it like the fans on this board.. with that said i do not doubt the new ownership and i think they can give new life to the cat.. time will tell

God forbid if it ever happens, you'd have to be a really forgiving fan. I had less than zero interest in the Avalanche after the Nordiques moved, and zero interest in the NHL for a couple of decades and counting now after the Whalers moved. The only thing that has somewhat brought me back is speculation over the return of the Nordiques.

 

[Hal1971]

God forbid if it ever happens, you'd have to be a really forgiving fan. I had less than zero interest in the Avalanche after the Nordiques moved, and zero interest in the NHL for a couple of decades and counting now after the Whalers moved. The only thing that has somewhat brought me back is speculation over the return of the Nordiques.

Me too, I've followed them a bit, but when I saw Sakic lift the cup in a denver jersey and thanking the denver fan for the support. I knew it was not my team anymore and I completely lost interest in the NHL.

 

[MiamiHockey]

If so why not just pay the 450 million dollar expansion fee and get it over with.. I guess you can survive a few years in western conference and later on switch with Columbus.. Panthers have money owners Columbus seems like they have not.. and its a owners game after all

I could be wrong, and Quebec could get an expansion franchise. But, even though the Panthers' current ownership group is wealthy, I just don't see them as the type of individuals who will sustain huge annual losses to keep the Panthers in Florida. Their actions this season (e.g., cutting staff, marketing) speak to that.

It was so pathetic at Tuesday's game that there was not even an anthem singer - they played pre-recorded tape of the Canadian and US anthems. Pitiful.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

I could be wrong, and Quebec could get an expansion franchise. But, even though the Panthers' current ownership group is wealthy, I just don't see them as the type of individuals who will sustain huge annual losses to keep the Panthers in Florida. Their actions this season (e.g., cutting staff, marketing) speak to that.

It was so pathetic at Tuesday's game that there was not even an anthem singer - they played pre-recorded tape of the Canadian and US anthems. Pitiful.

They have other intressts in SF casino etc

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

I had less than zero interest in the Avalanche after the Nordiques moved, and zero interest in the NHL for a couple of decades and counting now after the Whalers moved. The only thing that has somewhat brought me back is speculation over the return of the Nordiques.

Same for me in Winnipeg. After Jets 1.0 left, the only hockey I watched was the World Jr's - and some of the playoffs...

When we got the new franchise from Atlanta 4 years ago, I hadn't heard of 95% of the players in the league.

I sincerely hope that Quebec City gets a franchise soon. (And this is from a Jets fan that goes waaaaaaaaaaay back and remembers the Nordiques and Jets having some battles in the 70's - heck, I remember Curt Brackenbury...)

 

[Fenway]

I firmly believe Quebec City will have a team within 18 months.

Does it come from expansion or relocation I have no clue. My hunch is that the NHL wants 2 teams in Florida and North Carolina is the franchise in jeopardy.

Don't worry about Las Vegas and Seattle as the NHL wants 2 more teams in the West.

I was lucky enough to be working for ESPN (gulp) 28 years ago for this.

 

[LeafShark]

I firmly believe Quebec City will have a team within 18 months.

Does it come from expansion or relocation I have no clue. My hunch is that the NHL wants 2 teams in Florida and North Carolina is the franchise in jeopardy.

Don't worry about Las Vegas and Seattle as the NHL wants 2 more teams in the West.

I was lucky enough to be working for ESPN (gulp) 28 years ago for this.

In theory, Raleigh should be as viable as Nashville, although its lack of performance is surely hurting them. It also has a cup which makes it harder to justify moving the team. Raleigh is the smallest location save Buffalo or any Canadian team IIRC. I also think it benefits the league too much to keep the team there, because there is huge growth opportunity in Raleigh. If they relocate it won't be because the league wants it to go elsewhere, but because their hand is forced, like Atlanta.

 

[Brodie]

Raleigh is a great fit for the NHL. The demographics are all there and there's likely to never be any pro competition for dollars and eyeballs. Plus they had sustained success on and off the ice in recent memory, unlike some other franchises. Plus, having the one team in the south is a terrible plan... it works for MLB, but only because TBS was a thing for so long.

 

[Fenway]

In theory, Raleigh should be as viable as Nashville, although its lack of performance is surely hurting them. It also has a cup which makes it harder to justify moving the team. Raleigh is the smallest location save Buffalo or any Canadian team IIRC. I also think it benefits the league too much to keep the team there, because there is huge growth opportunity in Raleigh. If they relocate it won't be because the league wants it to go elsewhere, but because their hand is forced, like Atlanta.

I sense the NHL wants to expand to 34 teams and have 17 in each conference.

Quebec City WILL happen unless the loonie collapses below 75 cents which seems unlikely.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I sense the NHL wants to expand to 34 teams and have 17 in each conference.

Quebec City WILL happen unless the loonie collapses below 75 cents which seems unlikely.

The Canadian dollar is not going to be an issue for Quebec - this is exactly why Bettman has been focused on attracting owners with deep pockets. It was an issue for the pre-Katz Oilers, who did not have deep pockets, but it's not a huge issue any more for any of the Canadian franchises, particularly given the TV deal that Rogers just signed.

The arena is being built by the same wealthy corporation (Quebecor) that just paid $120 Million for the NHL Broadcast rights in Quebec. If there has ever been a franchise move / expansion telegraphed, this is it.

The only remaining question is where the franchise will come from.