Moose Head
Registered User
Given what other rentals have gone for, for lesser players, this is a pretty mediocre return.
Confirmed Trade: [VGK/CGY/PHI] Noah Hanifin (75% retained), Mikhail Vorobyov to VGK; 2026 1st , 2025 cond. 3rd, Daniil Miromanov to CGY; 2024 5th to PHI
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Given what other rentals have gone for, for lesser players, this is a pretty mediocre return.
It’s a mediocre return because everyone knows Hanifin has a small list of teams he’s willing to sign with long-term. He also had an 8-team NMC list. It’s not like Conroy panicked and took the first deal that came along. He held out as long as he could. No one was willing to offer much.
TheOrganist
Don't Call Him Alex
- Feb 21, 2006
- 3,973
- 1,289
You’re telling me Calgary couldn’t get Vegas’s 2024 first round pick for the best player on the market?
What i don't get is the timing. I mean, if it's one hour till the deadline and that's the best offer on the table, so be it. But two days before? Why not wait and see if some other team becomes desperate and ups their offer?
Settling for this trade now sort of indicates, that the package met Conroy's asking price, which would be...interesting.
Settling for this trade now sort of indicates, that the package met Conroy's asking price, which would be...interesting.
I was initially very disappointed with the return too because I really had my sights set on a C prospect. But in the grand scheme of things, I’m realizing it doesn’t really matter. Let’s say we got Edstrom instead of the conditional 2nd, would everyone be happy then? Reading Scott Wheeler’s assessment of Edstrom, he projects as a “solid 3C.” So we got a 3rd/ conditional 2nd instead of a projected 3C. Does that really matter? Our roster is basically just missing elite top-6 C’s, and we weren’t getting a prospect with that potential in a Hanifin trade.
The more important thing is that Conroy has chosen a direction for our future and is sticking to it. I still wish we got a better return, but imo I still give Conroy credit and don’t think this trade was nearly as much of a negative as people think
The draft this year is in Vegas and they want to keep that pick.
SeanMoneyHands
Registered User
- Apr 18, 2019
- 13,538
- 11,806
I still think Hanifin signs with Tampa in the summer since that's where his heart is set on.
SeanMoneyHands
Registered User
- Apr 18, 2019
- 13,538
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- Jan 24, 2007
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The No trade list, plus Hanifin's agent presumably leaking that he wanted to sign long term in Tampa exclusively possibly murdered Conroy's leverage. Maybe he should have waited and held out for Vegas's 2024 1st though but I don't think he did horribly here.
The question I have though is did Conroy accept this cause he set some ultimatum with Tampa to up their offer (which was probably garbage) and he had to follow through.
why does everyone think this would help? Their were probably six teams that had any interest at all if four of them tell you we ain’t interested at alll and the other two give you underwhelming offers where exactly does this mystery leverage come from all of a sudden on deadline day?
Really curious??
Jared Dunn
Registered User
I'm not sure if it's Tampa so much as nice weather and low taxes, which Vegas can certainly offer. Regardless, if this is a rental price I don't think Vegas is too upset, and if you're right they'll probably get a pick to flip his rights to Tampa
- Apr 2, 2023
- 10,172
- 9,826
- Jan 9, 2009
- 15,675
- 10,233
On top of that you're taking the chance that those very few interested teams don't spend their available cap space elsewhere and you end up holding a bag of nothing on Friday.... or at best, a worse deal than was available on Wednesday.
Just so people know, it was reported this morning by Ryan Leslie that Hanifin's agent had been leaking to every team that he will only sign with the Lightning. And no one else.
The Lightning knew the position they were in, and didn't offer much.
Basically, Hanifin agent really put the Flames in a bad position. The trade is a result of that.
The Lightning knew the position they were in, and didn't offer much.
Basically, Hanifin agent really put the Flames in a bad position. The trade is a result of that.
- Jan 9, 2009
- 15,675
- 10,233
Obviously it's a better deal than what Tampa offered. And Tampa wasn't a rental destination.
He’s a rental and got a rental return. I was expecting a Lindholm return. 1st and a couple 2nds. This falls just short.
Conroy is playing 3D chess here....meh returns leads to a meh team and bottoming out for years.
McKenna in 26 & Dupont in 2027!
McKenna in 26 & Dupont in 2027!
joestevens29
Registered User
- Apr 30, 2009
- 52,923
- 15,736
Might've been worried with all the trades yesterday that teams were starting to burn assets up
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,289
- 8,719
I could quote a shitload of posts that echo these 3 posts, but I've got other things to do today:
I don't know that I recall this much criticism about GMs doing trades 2 days out in front of the deadline. Maybe there has been and I've missed it, or I wasn't around, or I ignored it, but it's like people don't understand "wait until the last minute, squeeze every drop of blood you can get out of that turnip" isn't always the optimal strategy.
Not to mention,
* There's 29, 30 other teams around the league having trade discussions
* Sometimes Trade A has to happen to set up Trade B
* Teams may have multiple offers out and say "this is all we're willing to pay, if you don't take it we'll go work on this other deal" and sellers have to decide if holding out to the bitter end for a meager increase in return is worth the risk of getting nothing
* Waiting until the last minute can screw up those other trades, and other GMs do not appreciate being screwed from making other trades because someone's trying to squeeze them for a little, little more
* Daily cap calculations can impact when a trade gets done (or not done) ... which can then impact other trades under consideration
* "Not making a trade at all, getting nothing and having the guy walk in the summer for nothing is still better than not getting the absolute max value possible" is an incredibly bad way to manage your assets and build a franchise
Some of you should go back to college and take the psychology class with the lab experiment on game theory that tests this stuff, where you're offered a prize dependent on what kind of value you get in making various deals, just to see how hardcore "if I don't get exactly what I want, I'll take nothing" you really are. Cause ... it's great to sit behind a keyboard and say it; it's quite another to try that in the real world when you're running a business and dealing with people.
I don't know that I recall this much criticism about GMs doing trades 2 days out in front of the deadline. Maybe there has been and I've missed it, or I wasn't around, or I ignored it, but it's like people don't understand "wait until the last minute, squeeze every drop of blood you can get out of that turnip" isn't always the optimal strategy.
Not to mention,
* There's 29, 30 other teams around the league having trade discussions
* Sometimes Trade A has to happen to set up Trade B
* Teams may have multiple offers out and say "this is all we're willing to pay, if you don't take it we'll go work on this other deal" and sellers have to decide if holding out to the bitter end for a meager increase in return is worth the risk of getting nothing
* Waiting until the last minute can screw up those other trades, and other GMs do not appreciate being screwed from making other trades because someone's trying to squeeze them for a little, little more
* Daily cap calculations can impact when a trade gets done (or not done) ... which can then impact other trades under consideration
* "Not making a trade at all, getting nothing and having the guy walk in the summer for nothing is still better than not getting the absolute max value possible" is an incredibly bad way to manage your assets and build a franchise
Some of you should go back to college and take the psychology class with the lab experiment on game theory that tests this stuff, where you're offered a prize dependent on what kind of value you get in making various deals, just to see how hardcore "if I don't get exactly what I want, I'll take nothing" you really are. Cause ... it's great to sit behind a keyboard and say it; it's quite another to try that in the real world when you're running a business and dealing with people.
- Jan 9, 2009
- 15,675
- 10,233
Yep... Who hasn't been there? Get to the store late for that Black Friday Sale and all the good stuff is already gone. Been there done that.
I don't know....Right now I'd prefer TB's 2024 1st, and I'm sure we would have gotten an actual prospect. I think they might have just stiffed Tampa.
Hanifin’s agent had a hand in driving down Hanifin’s value. I wonder if the Flames sue for tampering.
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