Speculation: Vancouver - Pittsburgh

[Peter Griffin]

Kapanen, at the time he was well thought of. An I'm personally more interested in LEKK.

Kapanen was traded for Kessel, no? He had 7 years left on his contract.

 

[Ryder71]

Kapanen was traded for Kessel, no?

Yes, and I know Kessel was signed but TOR wanted to move him. Maybe not the best argument. But TOR retained on Kessel as well.

The Penguins landed Kessel, Tim Erixon, Tyler Biggs and a 2016 conditional second-round pick in exchange for Kasperi Kapanen, Scott Harrington, Nick Spaling, and two 2016 draft picks (a conditional first, and a third). Rutherford had approved the selection of Kapanen in the first round of the 2015 draft.Feb 28, 2023

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yes, and I know Kessel was signed but TOR wanted to move him. Maybe not the best argument. But TOR retained on Kessel as well.

Well no, because the question was regarding trading for an impending UFA. Absolutely JR would trade Willander or Lekkerimaki for the right player with term on their contract or an extension in place.

 

[Ryder71]

Well no, because the question was regarding trading for an impending UFA. Absolutely JR would trade Willander or Lekkerimaki for the right player with term on their contract or an extension in place.

My apologies there. I think we traded a 1st and KAP, don't remember all the ins and outs. But, maybe we can do a sign and trade. Jake would know a lot of guys on the team the coaching staff and front office, so... hoping it can work out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's correct to say that Lekkerimaki caliber prospects don't get traded for rentals. The only example even close to that I can think of was Esposito in the Hossa deal, but Guentzel isn't Marian Hossa.

When those caliber of prospects are traded, it's for players with term or players who immediately sign extensions with their new teams. Brannstrom in the Stone deal and Suzuki in the Pacioretty deal are 2 clear examples of that. Although I think a debate to be had at that point is whether Lekkerimaki is on par with those two, I especially remember Brannstrom was hyped up like crazy as a prospect.

Unless the Canucks do something unprecedented and frankly stupid, Lekkerimaki only goes to the Penguins if Guentzel is going with an extension. Based on what Pacioretty and Stone were traded for, I bet it would be pretty damn close to Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki and a 2025 1st for Guentzel with an extension.

 

[Ryder71]

Not sure if Jake would want to live in VAN but it's one of the most beautiful cities in North America if not the world. And again he would know many former players, coach and management. Sign and trade would be best if it can get done.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I think it's correct to say that Lekkerimaki caliber prospects don't get traded for rentals. The only example even close to that I can think of was Esposito in the Hossa deal, but Guentzel isn't Marian Hossa.

When those caliber of prospects are traded, it's for players with term or players who immediately sign extensions with their new teams. Brannstrom in the Stone deal and Suzuki in the Pacioretty deal are 2 clear examples of that. Although I think a debate to be had at that point is whether Lekkerimaki is on par with those two, I especially remember Brannstrom was hyped up like crazy as a prospect.

Unless the Canucks do something unprecedented and frankly stupid, Lekkerimaki only goes to the Penguins if Guentzel is going with an extension. Based on what Pacioretty and Stone were traded for, I bet it would be pretty damn close to Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki and a 2025 1st for Guentzel with an extension.

There’s also the argument of whether Mark Stone’s value as a 27 year old, PPG Selke nominee is more or less than a 29/30 year old PPG goal scorer, that while he isn’t a liability, isn’t adding much of value when not scoring. I’d argue the younger, more complete player held more value.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There’s also the argument of whether Mark Stone’s value as a 27 year old, PPG Selke nominee is more or less than a 29/30 year old PPG goal scorer, that while he isn’t a liability, isn’t adding much of value when not scoring. I’d argue the younger, more complete player held more value.

Yeah he did, but Lekkerimaki is absolutely not as good of a prospect as Brannstrom was at the time. That doesn't mean he'll age as poorly as Brannstrom did, but Brannstrom had insane hype at the time of the trade.

I'd put both Guentzel between Pacioretty and Stone, and Lekkerimaki between Suzuki and Brannstrom. I'd also say that both of those two are closer to the lower end (meaning more similar to Pacioretty and Suzuki).

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yeah he did, but Lekkerimaki is absolutely not as good of a prospect as Brannstrom was at the time. That doesn't mean he'll age as poorly as Brannstrom did, but Brannstrom had insane hype at the time of the trade.

I think he's very comparable to Suzuki.

The hype is getting pretty high with Lekk. WJC MVP and is on an absolute tear over in Sweden right now.

I remember checking awhile back as I was having a discussion regarding Stone’s value at the time he was traded and from what I found Branmstrom was considered around a top 20 prospect at the time. I’d argue Lekk is probably around the 30’s league wide now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The hype is getting pretty high with Lekk. WJC MVP and is on an absolute tear over in Sweden right now.

I remember checking awhile back as I was having a discussion regarding Stone’s value at the time he was traded and from what I found Branmstrom was considered around a top 20 prospect at the time. I’d argue Lekk is probably around the 30’s league wide now.

Yeah that's why I view him as more comparable to Suzuki.

Like I edited in above, I think Lekkerimaki is a bit above Suzuki but clearly below Brannstrom. I also have Guentzel a bit above Pacioretty and clearly below Stone.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yeah that's why I view him as more comparable to Suzuki.

Like I edited in above, I think Lekkerimaki is a bit above Suzuki but clearly below Brannstrom. I also have Guentzel a bit above Pacioretty and clearly below Stone.

So really, Lekk and a 2nd for Guentzel with an extension is comparable value. Stone > Guentzel, Brannstrom > Lekkerimaki.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So really, Lekk and a 2nd for Guentzel with am extension is comparable value.

If the Canucks still had their 2024 2nd, I'd say yes. That's about as equal to the Stone/Pacioretty trades as you can get.

Since they don't, it would probably be a 2025 1st with the Penguins adding a minor piece or a 2025 2nd with the Canucks adding a minor piece.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You don't get prospects of that quality for a rental, despite how good the rental is.

Who was the last rental with playoff numbers as good as Guentzel's?

Of all active players with at least 10 games, Guentzel is tied for 3rd in playoff goals per game with McDavid (.59) behind Drai and MacK.

What VAN winger sniffs that? What's that worth to a team with Cup aspirations?

 

[Peter Griffin]

If the Canucks still had their 2024 2nd, I'd say yes. That's about as equal to the Stone/Pacioretty trades as you can get.

Since they don't, it would probably be a 2025 1st with the Penguins adding a minor piece or a 2025 2nd with the Canucks adding a minor piece.

But why? In the Stone trade it wasn’t a 2019 2nd that was traded, it was a future 2020 pick. It’s literally the same situation here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But why? In the Stone trade it wasn’t a 2019 2nd that was traded, it was a future 2020 pick. It’s literally the same situation here.

Oh you're correct, I thought the Stone trade happened in 2020 and they got a 2020 2nd for some reason.

 

[Ryder71]

But why? In the Stone trade it wasn’t a 2019 2nd that was traded, it was a future 2020 pick. It’s literally the same situation here.

If you're ok with Lekk and a 2hd in '25 don't you need to add a player to even out the cap?

 

[Peter Griffin]

If you're ok with Lekk and a 2hd in '25 don't you need to add a player to even out the cap?

Mikheyev would be the odd man out most likely either in this trade or elsewhere.

 

[Ryder71]

Mikheyev would be the odd man out most likely either in this trade or elsewhere.

So, you'd do LEKK, '25 2hd and Mikheyev for Jake if he's signed to an extension? If Jake is signed long term I'd want a '25 1st instead of a 2hd. But I'd offer maybe a 3rd rounder back.

 

[Peter Griffin]

So, you'd do LEKK, '25 2hd and Mikheyev for Jake if he's signed to an extension? If Jake is signed long term I'd want a '25 1st instead of a 2hd. But I'd offer maybe a 3rd rounder back.

Yes I would be fine with that. The ‘25 1st would be difficult to move in addition to Lekk I would think.

 

[Wattsburgh]

Winning B2B cups?

Crosby and Co went to back to back Cups way before Rutherford came in. Was just a matter of time until it happened again. Him ruining the team / leaving it a mess wasn’t worth the two Cups we would have eventually won anyway.

Besides, those two Cup wins are also why Sullivan is still the Head Coach. Gross.

Yes I liked his aggressive approach at the time compared to someone who just sits and does nothing but he definitely lost basically every trade / gave up too much. And the out of nowhere appearance of Jake Guentzel won the second one by the way. Don’t think that had anything to do with JR.

 

[Ryder71]

Crosby and Co went to back to back Cups way before Rutherford came in. Was just a matter of time until it happened again. Him ruining the team / leaving it a mess wasn’t worth the two Cups we would have eventually won anyway.

Besides, those two Cup wins are also why Sullivan is still the Head Coach. Gross.

Yes I liked his aggressive approach at the time compared to someone who just sits and does nothing but he definitely lost basically every trade / gave up too much. And the out of nowhere appearance of Jake Guentzel won the second one by the way. Don’t think that had anything to do with JR.

JR orchestrated the Hornqvist deal, which like it or not changed the direction of the team. He also made the Kessel trade, brought in Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Carl Hagelyn and Nick Bonino.

 

[The Old Master]

he also made the Lovejoy for fatty trade. so, I'm hoping history repeats itself. and we get 3 firsts for jake.

 

[McJedi]

Canucks insider Rick Dhaliwhal mentioned today that the Canucks are still in the Jake Guentzel sweepstakes. I didn't think the Canucks would be active going after another big fish after acquiring Elias Lindholm but apparently not.

I have a proposal

To Vancouver- Jake Guentzel

To Pittsburgh- Ilya Mikheyev, Nils Hoglander, 25 1st rounder

Pens fans, what do you think?

Value seems close but due to the 2025 date on the first rounder. I’d make Vancouver add Podkolzin.

 

[Gurglesons]

Value seems close but due to the 2025 date on the first rounder. I’d make Vancouver add Podkolzin.

Yep. Perfect deal for me.

Gives us a roster player who can play in the top 9. A player like Hoglander with top six potential. And two scratch off tickets in Podkolzin and a 1st.

 

[Wattsburgh]

JR orchestrated the Hornqvist deal, which like it or not changed the direction of the team. He also made the Kessel trade, brought in Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Carl Hagelyn and Nick Bonino.

Yeah I know the pros made. Just meant the cons, which is meant to be directed towards Van fans not thinking Rutherford won’t overpay.