Van' Riemsdyk not available. Kadri's asking price is 'extremely high'

[Ricky Bobby]

except Dion doesn't provide anymore support than we could get by re signing Polak at less than half his cap hit

we could easily slide Polak into DP's role minus the pp where i'd rather have MR get his mins

we're losing anyway so going with a top 4 of Hunwick-Rielly/Gards-Polak while we break in the kids is much better than hoping we can deal DP 2-3 years down the road when he's diminished further

Dion is a much better insulator than Polak and Hunwick. Having Dion also allows us to deal those guys for value.

People worry far too much about the Dion contract. Dealing Dion doesn't speed up the rebuild. It just sets up our D to have their development hurt. Dealing doesn't speed up this issues to work through that will take time like acquiring top talent, losing the Horton contract, losing the Lupul contract, Kessel retention, Gleason buyout, Robidas,etc.

The Dion contracts drops off substantially in real dollars and he'll still be a useful Dman in a few years.

Will he be a 7 million cap hit Dman? Nope. But with only a few years left at under 6 or even a lot less in the last year in real dollars there will be a market for him from teams who count real dollars.

The same market of teams that count real dollars that handed out multi year contracts at good money to greybeards like Beauchemin, Mitchell, Bieksa or traded for high cap guys with short term like Wisnewski or McCabe.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

I too am frustrated that our coach is putting our players in roles in which they can succeed.

I know right. But we're the internets. We see through his clever scheme.

 

[Menzinger]

I think it's going to be a lot harder to trade a 7 million dollar Dion than some are suggesting.

Kessel only made a million more and only had one serious suitor. I think Kessel is a much more valuable piece than Dion is now.

Unless management has Dion in their long term plans for the team he should be moved by the end of the forthcoming offseason as his value will be at its highest.

 

[slozo]

I think it's going to be a lot harder to trade a 7 million dollar Dion than some are suggesting.

Kessel only made a million more and only had one serious suitor. I think Kessel is a much more valuable piece than Dion is now.

Unless management has Dion in their long term plans for the team he should be moved by the end of the forthcoming offseason as his value will be at its highest.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's going to be easy; only that it's going to be possible, maybe even probable. From my standpoint, I think it is possible. Difficult, but possible.

3rd tier defenceman have been very valuable pieces to add to many a contender at the trade deadline, in the past. Won't be any different this year I imagine. Phaneuf is a 2nd pairing d-man with physical presence, experience, and some skill on the PP.

I guarantee there will be more than one inquiry.

 

[New Liskeard]

That man wearing the C is a disgrace. If he doesn't get shipped it needs to stripped

ayo

a rhyming new catchphrase :p

Babcock said that Dion is a good man, leads by example and works hard; Reilly spoke to Phaneuf taking the time to mentor him, teach him and train with him in the off season. Then again what do those guys know about hockey and hockey players anyway?

 

[New Liskeard]

Dion was given too much term, and too many dollars for His skill set. Anyone who knows anything about hockey knows this.

Who said anything about that? You are deflecting and avoiding the main point. Point being, I showed how Dion's cap hit is not nor will likely be an issue down the road. To which you disagree, and are now trying to change the topic. To your point, what is the difference between overpaid and market value. It can be argued that the last defenceman of his ilk that hit the market was Chara. Nonis paid him what he believed he was worth and what the market would bare for that kind of player. If Clarkson was overpaid why did three teams offer him all similar contracts, and the Oilers offered even more than the Leafs. Because that was what his market value was at the time, right or wrong.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

We're 29th in the league because we can't score goals, not because we can't prevent them. Trading away our best PP QB and leading defenseman scorer is not going to help. Even in the future, only Rielly will be better than him offensively.

Defense-men take a long time to develop. Big able to play top 4 in the NHL usually takes 4+ years. We're counting on Rielly improving, and maybe one trade/FA addition. If we trade Dion, then we need to replace him with a free agent (two trades for top 4 defensemen is too rare and would cost too much). So then we're looking at worse defensemen, like Sekera or Petry, for nearly the same cap hit, or an equivalent defenseman who costs even more (and those never actually hit FA). We need to get back at least the difference in quality between Dion and a FA replacement if we trade him.

Plus, we have a very healthy cap going forward, so we need to focus more on quality than efficiency of players.

I'm not a huge fan of Phaneuf, and I don't think he is an elite defender by any means.

But, I am curious as to what our plan would be if we were to move Phaneuf.

Would we need another vet defender to replace the role and minutes he played?

If so, what would the cost be for a similar defender?

 

[gabeliscious]

i know other fans seem to ***** about phaneuf because of his contract but i get the impression that babcocks really likes phaneuf. his play is 100% not a problem this season imo and i think it is reasonable to think that under babcock his play will continue. babs contract is longer then phaneufs so hopefully phaneuf will be ok long term for us.

we dont have much in the pipeline to replace phaneuf with and we definitely cant retain on his contract. i think people need to get use to the idea that given babs fondness of him + his contract, phaneuf is here to stay.

all things considered i think our defense is pretty good once we fill in the few gaps. we need a longterm partner for reilly and to solidify the bottom pairing with inexpensive prospects.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I think we'll eventually see Phaneuf paired with Rielly. Gardiner, on the other hand, will be paired with a younger RHD.

 

[Doc300c]

except Dion doesn't provide anymore support than we could get by re signing Polak at less than half his cap hit

we could easily slide Polak into DP's role minus the pp where i'd rather have MR get his mins

we're losing anyway so going with a top 4 of Hunwick-Rielly/Gards-Polak while we break in the kids is much better than hoping we can deal DP 2-3 years down the road when he's diminished further

And I'm done with this discussion as you believe Polak can take Dion's spot and will make this team better.

 

[Trapper]

I think we'll eventually see Phaneuf paired with Rielly. Gardiner, on the other hand, will be paired with a younger RHD.

I don't see Phaneuf paired with Rielly.
They are going in opposite directions.
Rielly #1,2, top minutes, best players.
Phaneuf #3,4, less minutes, selected opponents. Like Babs is using him now.

 

[rumman]

Who said anything about that? You are deflecting and avoiding the main point. Point being, I showed how Dion's cap hit is not nor will likely be an issue down the road. To which you disagree, and are now trying to change the topic. To your point, what is the difference between overpaid and market value. It can be argued that the last defenceman of his ilk that hit the market was Chara. Nonis paid him what he believed he was worth and what the market would bare for that kind of player. If Clarkson was overpaid why did three teams offer him all similar contracts, and the Oilers offered even more than the Leafs. Because that was what his market value was at the time, right or wrong.

These are the deals you pass on, let the other teams make the mistakes. Nonis was ******** not to let Phaneuf go at the deadline of his expiring contract, then he would have gotten something of value in return, but he kept him giving Phaneuf all the leverage in contact talks. Others certainly would have paid what Dion got, but that,s on them, if they wanted to jump off a cliff should Nonis jump too? And this cap talk, well Leafs aren't up against the cap this year, but they could sure use some better players that would eat up capspace which would limit future moves. Phaneuf has plyed well with his diminished role thus far this year, but no team wants to carry these contracts, it's fiscally ********. I wouldn't pay for a Porche and be happy when I ended up with a Skoda, and neither would you.

 

[MJ65]

James van Riemsdyk ‏@JVReemer21 1m1 minute ago
Appreciate all the well wishes and support. The process has been longer than expected, but I'll be back on the ice soon enough. Can't wait!

 

[HockeyCA]

James van Riemsdyk ‏@JVReemer21 1m1 minute ago
Appreciate all the well wishes and support. The process has been longer than expected, but I'll be back on the ice soon enough. Can't wait!

I thought this year was an important development year for JVR under Babcock.. In hopefully turning him into a more complete player, along with getting his compete level up. It's too bad it was cut short.. Maybe its a good thing though to isolate him from all the losing, although he's probably used to it at this point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I thought this year was an important development year for JVR under Babcock.. In hopefully turning him into a more complete player, along with getting his compete level up. It's too bad it was cut short.. Maybe its a good thing though to isolate him from all the losing, although he's probably used to it at this point.

I was thinking JVR being out is good for the tank but bad because we can't really trade him now (well can but who wants an injured player) and doesn't his no trade clause kick in this summer?

 

[HockeyCA]

I was thinking JVR being out is good for the tank but bad because we can't really trade him now (well can but who wants an injured player) and doesn't his no trade clause kick in this summer?

He's on a cap friendly deal, and he's young. I don't think the Leafs want to move him. Not yet anyways. That could change, however, if he doesn't show a significant step in his development. He's always been the type of player that leaves you wanting more.. At least thats always been my impression of him. You see the size, the talent, and the spurts of compete, and it makes you wonder why it's not there all the time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's on a cap friendly deal, and he's young. I don't think the Leafs want to move him. Not yet anyways. That could change, however, if he doesn't show a significant step in his development. He's always been the type of player that leaves you wanting more.. At least thats always been my impression of him. You see the size, the talent, and the spurts of compete, and it makes you wonder why it's not there all the time.

I was just thinking of the arguments for trading that have been covered before, that he has 2 years left on a cap friendly deal that frankly, doesn't help us that much but would be of huge value to a contender bumping up against the cap.

 

[HockeyCA]

I was just thinking of the arguments for trading that have been covered before, that he has 2 years left on a cap friendly deal that frankly, doesn't help us that much but would be of huge value to a contender bumping up against the cap.

I guess it depends on whether the Leafs view him as a piece that a team can build around when they are finally ready to compete in say, 3-5 seasons time. Big, young, wingers with soft hands are difficult to find. The fact that he's on a cap friendly contract is just the sweetener. Again, I will just refer you to my previous post regarding his play often leaving you with wanting more.. There are legitimate questions here as to whether he will even actually take the next step and become one of the best players at his position in the league type of player, because thats where many view his potential ceiling as actually being. Have to think long and hard about trading a player like that, because if he gets to a new team and it all finally clicks you might regret that one for a long time.

 

[moon111]

If Kadri is traded, I feel Stamkos is going to be signed. And I have a feeling the Leafs already will know whether it would happen or not.

 

[TorontoTrades]

take away JVR from the leafs and what does our LW situation look like?

Winnik, Michalek, Greening, Leivo, Leipsic, A. Johnson, Timashov....


i mean don't get me wrong the last 4 are nice young but none are top line talent... Moving JVR just doesn't really make sense at this time without having a replacement in place.

 

[Ovate]

take away JVR from the leafs and what does our LW situation look like?

Winnik, Michalek, Greening, Leivo, Leipsic, A. Johnson, Timashov....


i mean don't get me wrong the last 4 are nice young but none are top line talent... Moving JVR just doesn't really make sense at this time without having a replacement in place.

Komarov played LW most of his career, and is better than anyone you mentioned.

I agree our LW depth is ****, but we shouldn't be making moves based on current roster holes in a rebuild.

 

[Stephen]

If Kadri is traded, I feel Stamkos is going to be signed. And I have a feeling the Leafs already will know whether it would happen or not.

I think if Kadri's value is high to end the year they can sign Stamkos and keep Kadri, or trade him in a hockey deal that makes sense long term.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I guess it depends on whether the Leafs view him as a piece that a team can build around when they are finally ready to compete in say, 3-5 seasons time. Big, young, wingers with soft hands are difficult to find. The fact that he's on a cap friendly contract is just the sweetener. Again, I will just refer you to my previous post regarding his play often leaving you with wanting more.. There are legitimate questions here as to whether he will even actually take the next step and become one of the best players at his position in the league type of player, because thats where many view his potential ceiling as actually being. Have to think long and hard about trading a player like that, because if he gets to a new team and it all finally clicks you might regret that one for a long time.

The cap friendly contract is a sweetener - that's the big reason why it may make sense to trade him NOW as opposed to LATER as in 3-5 seasons time, the contract will be an entirely different story.

 

[Ovate]

The cap friendly contract is a sweetener - that's the big reason why it may make sense to trade him NOW as opposed to LATER as in 3-5 seasons time, the contract will be an entirely different story.

How many people are going to make halfway decent offers for JVR if he's getting paid 7M+? And he will command at least that much on the free market.

Once you hit UFA, your trade value drops close to 0. We'd get a better return for JVR trading him as a rental than we would after re-signing him in UFA.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How many people are going to make halfway decent offers for JVR if he's getting paid 7M+? And he will command at least that much on the free market.

Once you hit UFA, your trade value drops close to 0. We'd get a better return for JVR trading him as a rental than we would after re-signing him in UFA.

Yup, that's exactly my point and the point that's been made here many times before. And that's when JVR get injured I thought, uh oh, there goes our opportunity to trade him now while his value is perhaps as I high as it ever will be.