Confirmed Signing with Link: [VAN] F J.T. Miller re-signs in Vancouver (7 years, $8M AAV)

[Ruthervin]

He may not have directly said as much ( and realistically, why would he?), but basically inferred not only that Benning wanted Glass over Petey, (which is completely believable given Benning's love for meat and potatoes players) but that he had to overrule Benning to get who the scouts wanted.

Also still see no proof that Linden overruled Benning in getting Makar.

Meh. We will have to agree to disagree. Onwards and upwards. I think the Canucks will have a strong season coming up and I look forward to it.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Meh. We will have to agree to disagree. Onwards and upwards. I think the Canucks will have a strong season coming up and I look forward to it.

As do I, GO Canucks Go!

 

[rypper]

No.

Linden's quote/implication from that interview was that the scouts were extremely high on Pettersson whereas Benning wasn't quite sold. Linden never once said that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson. The only one that strongly attempted to infer that (without actually explicitly saying it) was Thomas Drance. @rypper @Peter Griffin - I apologize for my late response here. I tried to find that clip from all those years but was unable to find it. My guess is that it's somewhere in The Athletic archives if you want to search for it (I'm not an Athletic subscriber. I temporarily became a member all of those years ago just to listen to the clip).

Before the 2017 draft, Jim Benning a few times that he was extremely high on some of the defensemen (Heiskanen, Makar) but that they likely wouldn't be around when it was their turn to select. Benning expressed interest in Makar and even stated that he'd try and move up if the deal was right. The whole "Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson" was completely made up.

Yeah you're in fantasyland.

First of all you've completely fabricated the Linden blocking a Benning trade for Makar, that never happened outside of your own imagination.

Second, Drance's comments on the Glass/Pettersson debate were completely neutral, with him saying he had sources from inside the organization claiming both sides, leaving him to believe the truth was somewhere inthe middle.

This was well after other sources had put out articles coming out with much harder stances. IE. Ryan Kennedy from the hockeynews. There may have been no sources that outright said LInden stepped in to make sure the team picked Pettersson over Glass (besides Linden's own comments) but there's enough periphery evidence it's not hard to put two and two together. (Linden's comments, IMac's article, etc.)

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Another way to look at is JT Miller is being paid an average of 7.66M over the next 8 years.

Ranking him # 67 1/2 highest player in the league:

2023-24 Active NHL Players - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

2023-24 NHL players who are currently active in the league

www.capfriendly.com

right between this guy at #67:

Andrei Svechnikov Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Andrei Svechnikov contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

and this guy at #68:

Jared Spurgeon Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Jared Spurgeon contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

Everyone exhale.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I love how all these posters think we should have just traded him as it didn't make sense for us to go "all in" right now............like replacing our best player and heart and soul of our team was gonna make us better.

WE are a lot closer than people are giving us credit for to being pretty good. At this point I'm all for using prospects AND draft capital to open our window up a little further and ultimately get that top 4 RHD that we desperately need. Moving Miller for picks was never going to improve our team. Management took stock of the landscape realized that and moved our chips to the middle of the table. I'm super glad they did........

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Cap space is an asset. Not paying O'Reilly and Duchene a combined $15 million/year opened up opportunities for the Avs to add players like Toews, Nichushkin and Burakovsky without needing to send money out.

The potential return for Miller (or Horvat) is secondary. Not being locked into a declining 30+ year old for 7 years when your team isn't even good enough to make the playoffs when he's performing at his absolute peak is the real reason not to sign this contract.

Already labeled a declining player, lol wow. People want just so badly to hate this contract.

 

[Hodge]

Already labeled a declining player, lol wow. People want just so badly to hate this contract.

Do you think Miller is going to improve upon his 99 point season?

The contract is not the issue here. The cap situation and overall quality of the team signing the contract is. If Colorado, Tampa, Calgary, Edmonton or Carolina could somehow fit this contract under the cap it would make plenty of sense for them to sign Miller for 7x8. Their window to win the Cup is right now so Miller no longer being worth 8M in 3-4 years is irrelevant. Vancouver on the other hand isn't even a playoff team yet.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Do you think Miller is going to improve upon his 99 point season?

The contract is not the issue here. The cap situation and overall quality of the team signing the contract is. If Colorado, Tampa, Calgary, Edmonton or Carolina could somehow fit this contract under the cap it would make plenty of sense for them to sign Miller for 7x8. Their window to win the Cup is right now so Miller no longer being worth 8M in 3-4 years is irrelevant. Vancouver on the other hand isn't even a playoff team yet.

I think Miller will be a PPG player for at least half of the contract, then maybe he goes down to a 55-65 point player, who can still win faceoffs, still be effective on the PK and PP and still be a leader on the team, oh and to top it off, by that time the cap will have gone up quite a bit which will make this contract a lot easier to swallow anyways.

The expectation is this year they will make the playoffs, if you had watched the latter half of last season you would know that.

I don't think were a contender now, I do think were a playoff team that can grow with Miller and still with Miller as a contributor be a contender, which is why I like (don't love) this contract.

 

[JohnHodgson]

It's always funny when people point at the one exception and ignore everything else. Pavelski was the ONLY forward over the age of 36 producing well in the NHL. If "Its not unreasonable at all to say a player like Miller will play well until he's 35" that was the case why aren't there tons of guys in their mid 30s playing well? Instead it's just a couple of guys that were also generational talents like Crosby, Ovi, Bergeron, and Kane.

Miller has also been high level for what 3 years? He's had 7 years of meh play. Kreider is 30.... he's not 35. No clue why you even mention him. Nobody is saying Miller will be bad next year.

Logic goes out the window with fans once their teams sign these contracts lmao.

What? There are a ton of guys in the mid 30s playing well... do you even watch hockey?

It's a combination of player type, mileage and trends to determine if a player can age well. JT Miller is a late bloomer and didn't have his first full year in the NHL till he was 22/23. He's had NO durability concerns missing less than a handful of games in 3 years (he lead the team in GP in 2 seasons). I don't believe JT has had any significant injuries or setbacks that would greatly minimize his future outlook. JT can bang downlow but he's not a Power Forward type... he's an all-around player that has size, speed and smarts.

High Level Forwards 35+ that are producing reasonably well or did in the recent past:

Joe Pavelski
Jeff Carter
Eric Staal
Patrice Bergeron
Blake Wheeler
Joe Thornton (Dude was productive into his 40s)
Jarome Iginla
Ryan Getzlaf
Anze Kopitar
TJ Oshie
Paul Stastny
Corey Perry

Guys on the verge of entering the list:
Phil Kessel
Jordan Staal
Nicklas Backstrom
Jonathan Toews
Claude Giroux
Brad Marchand

Unless you think everyone here is a generational talent.... then you probably need to watch more hockey. Btw, if you think Bergeron is a generational talent, then you probably need to watch some more hockey.

Nobody is expecting JT Miller to be a point per game forward at age 35. If he can score 40+ points and play a 3C or 2W role age 35+, he would be doing really well.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Well then they won, I guess.

They did. I tapped out. Big time bitched.

 

[TommyDangles]

What? There are a ton of guys in the mid 30s playing well... do you even watch hockey?

It's a combination of player type, mileage and trends to determine if a player can age well. JT Miller is a late bloomer and didn't have his first full year in the NHL till he was 22/23. He's had NO durability concerns missing less than a handful of games in 3 years (he lead the team in GP in 2 seasons). I don't believe JT has had any significant injuries or setbacks that would greatly minimize his future outlook. JT can bang downlow but he's not a Power Forward type... he's an all-around player that has size, speed and smarts.

High Level Forwards 35+ that are producing reasonably well or did in the recent past:

Joe Pavelski
Jeff Carter
Eric Staal
Patrice Bergeron
Blake Wheeler
Joe Thornton (Dude was productive into his 40s)
Jarome Iginla
Ryan Getzlaf
Anze Kopitar
TJ Oshie
Paul Stastny
Corey Perry

Guys on the verge of entering the list:
Phil Kessel
Jordan Staal
Nicklas Backstrom
Jonathan Toews
Claude Giroux
Brad Marchand

Unless you think everyone here is a generational talent.... then you probably need to watch more hockey. Btw, if you think Bergeron is a generational talent, then you probably need to watch some more hockey.

Nobody is expecting JT Miller to be a point per game forward at age 35. If he can score 40+ points and play a 3C or 2W role age 35+, he would be doing really well.

Bro what?

Paul Statsny, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, and Jeff Carter have been producing well past 35? Are you sure you watch hockey? The guys signing cheap deals scoring 30-40 points lmao? All those guys have declined big time in their 30s. Fine for a guy on a cheap contract. Not for a guy making 8M.

You even mention Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel, and Jordan Staal lmao. All those guys have had a steep decline in performance / injury issues.

You really just proved my point. There are very few guys performing at a high level deep into their 30s. Most of the guys that were able to keep that high level of play were generational talents that came into the league tearing it up ex. Crosby, Thornton, Ovechkin, Bergeron. I'd bet on McDavid/Matthews being able to play well into their 30s. I wouldn't bet on Miller lol.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Bro what?

Paul Statsny, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, and Jeff Carter have been producing well past 35? Are you sure you watch hockey? The guys signing cheap deals scoring 30-40 points lmao? All those guys have declined big time in their 30s. Fine for a guy on a cheap contract. Not for a guy making 8M.

You even mention Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel, and Jordan Staal lmao. All those guys have had a steep decline in performance / injury issues.

You really just proved my point. There are very few guys performing at a high level deep into their 30s. Most of the guys that were able to keep that high level of play were generational talents that came into the league tearing it up ex. Crosby, Thornton, Ovechkin, Bergeron. I'd bet on McDavid/Matthews being able to play well into their 30s. I wouldn't bet on Miller lol.

I just said that NOBODY is expecting Miller to be a point-per-game player in his 35-37 years. All we expect is reasonable 40-50 point production. How dense are you? Nobody on this planet would bet on Miller be a PPG player in this late 30's. The point is that players can STILL be reasonably productive past 35.

Stastny just had 45 points in 71 games, a 52 point pace in a second line center role. That's great production for someone about to turn 37.

Corey Perry was EXCEPTIONAL in the past 3 playoffs. He scored 40 points in 82 games this year with Tampa in a bottom six role... that's amazing output for a 37 year old.

Jeff Carter just had 45 points in 76 games this year - he was great for the Penguins and about to turn 38 in a couple months.

If you're still confused, you can read the first paragraph again.

You just joined in 2021 so I see you're new to hockey. It's all good... everything's a learning experience

 

[TommyDangles]

I just said that NOBODY is expecting Miller to be a point-per-game player in his 35-37 years. All we expect is reasonable 40-50 point production. How dense are you? Nobody on this planet would bet on Miller be a PPG player in this late 30's. The point is that players can STILL be reasonably productive past 35.

Stastny just had 45 points in 71 games, a 52 point pace in a second line center role. That's great production for someone about to turn 37.

Corey Perry was EXCEPTIONAL in the past 3 playoffs. He scored 40 points in 82 games this year with Tampa in a bottom six role... that's amazing output for a 37 year old.

Jeff Carter just had 45 points in 76 games this year - he was great for the Penguins and about to turn 38 in a couple months.

If you're still confused, you can read the first paragraph again.

You just joined in 2021 so I see you're new to hockey. It's all good... everything's a learning experience

You said producing reasonably well. In what world is 40-50 points producing reasonably well? Jesus. That's not reasonably productive.

You're moving the goal posts. Now it's "great production for someone about to turn 37". Is it great production for someone making 8M?

Corey Perry was EXCEPTIONAL!!! He was fine for a depth guy being paid a cheap contract. Did his job. He's not making 8M though. He has declined hard. Just like Carter & Statsny. No clue why you're continuing to ignore that. If Miller is putting up 40-50 points making 8M that's absolutely terrible.

As I said logic goes out the window with fans when their team signs contracts like these. The mental gymnastics is always funny to watch.

"You just joined in 2021 so I see you're new to hockey. It's all good... everything's a learning experience " Might be the cringiest thing I've ever read on here. Try to stay on topic.

 

[sting101]

Do you think Miller is going to improve upon his 99 point season?

The contract is not the issue here. The cap situation and overall quality of the team signing the contract is. If Colorado, Tampa, Calgary, Edmonton or Carolina could somehow fit this contract under the cap it would make plenty of sense for them to sign Miller for 7x8. Their window to win the Cup is right now so Miller no longer being worth 8M in 3-4 years is irrelevant. Vancouver on the other hand isn't even a playoff team yet.

Did he get paid like a 99pt player because that would mean he got 10million per

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You said producing reasonably well. In what world is 40-50 points producing reasonably well? Jesus. That's not reasonably productive.

You're moving the goal posts. Now it's "great production for someone about to turn 37". Is it great production for someone making 8M?

Corey Perry was EXCEPTIONAL!!! He was fine for a depth guy being paid a cheap contract. Did his job. He's not making 8M though. He has declined hard. Just like Carter & Statsny. No clue why you're continuing to ignore that. If Miller is putting up 40-50 points making 8M that's absolutely terrible.

As I said logic goes out the window with fans when their team signs contracts like these. The mental gymnastics is always funny to watch.

"You just joined in 2021 so I see you're new to hockey. It's all good... everything's a learning experience " Might be the cringiest thing I've ever read on here. Try to stay on topic.

It's a calculated risk for sure, it was necessary though, regardless of that, let's say he declines in year 5 of the contract, down to a 50 point player, you really think that in 6 years the cap hasn't gone up enough that the contract doesn't look nearly as bad, seems like putting up 40-50 points and making 8 million now is terrible, but will it be in 6 years?

 

[TommyDangles]

It's a calculated risk for sure, it was necessary though, regardless of that, let's say he declines in year 5 of the contract, down to a 50 point player, you really think that in 6 years the cap hasn't gone up enough that the contract doesn't look nearly as bad, seems like putting up 40-50 points and making 8 million now is terrible, but will it be in

"seems like putting up 40-50 points and making 8 million now is terrible, but will it be in 6 years?" Yes. The cap will go up, but not nearly enough to make 8M look cheap. If the cap is 95M that would be around a 7M contract today. That's still a lot of money that could really hurt the team's cap flexibility, which is the most important thing. Even 40-50 points is a bit optimistic. There were only 8 guys in the NHL last year with 40+ points at 35 years old when the season started. Excluding the guys like Ovi, Bergeron, Malkin (generational talents) there were only 5 in the ENTIRE NHL. It's a rarity for even that level of production. More likely he's a 30-40 point guy at that point.

 

[andora]

So what is reasonable production for a 38 year old.. 85, 90 points

Wtf am i reading

If he is producing .5 or better pts per game, taking faceoffs, playing 2nd 3rd line and potentially elevating in the playoffs

Its worth it

Jesus this has gone to shit

 

[Hoglander]

The last couple years won't be great, but he should be worth it for most of his contract. He's an impact player on and off the ice, and we already know he is a good fit with the team and coach. If someone like David Perron can (quietly) hover around a point per game at 34 years of age, there's no reason Miller can't.

 

[TommyDangles]

So what is reasonable production for a 38 year old.. 85, 90 points

Wtf am i reading

If he is producing .5 or better pts per game, taking faceoffs, playing 2nd 3rd line and potentially elevating in the playoffs

Its worth it

Jesus this has gone to shit

You consider 40 points to be reasonably good production for a guy making 8M?

Ask Dallas how Benn & Seguin contracts are. I mean they are at about .5 PPG, take faceoffs, and potentially could elevate during the playoffs. I guess they are worth it.

 

[tiburon12]

It's a calculated risk for sure, it was necessary though, regardless of that, let's say he declines in year 5 of the contract, down to a 50 point player, you really think that in 6 years the cap hasn't gone up enough that the contract doesn't look nearly as bad, seems like putting up 40-50 points and making 8 million now is terrible, but will it be in 6 years?

This was the Sharks' justification, did not pan out. Pandemic aside, maybe one contract like this is stomachable, but it's a slippery slope once the first is inked

 

[TS Quint]

Yeah you're in fantasyland.

First of all you've completely fabricated the Linden blocking a Benning trade for Makar, that never happened outside of your own imagination.

Second, Drance's comments on the Glass/Pettersson debate were completely neutral, with him saying he had sources from inside the organization claiming both sides, leaving him to believe the truth was somewhere inthe middle.

This was well after other sources had put out articles coming out with much harder stances. IE. Ryan Kennedy from the hockeynews. There may have been no sources that outright said LInden stepped in to make sure the team picked Pettersson over Glass (besides Linden's own comments) but there's enough periphery evidence it's not hard to put two and two together. (Linden's comments, IMac's article, etc.)

Do any of you have any links? This all Just sounds like a bad memory competition.

 

[TS Quint]

It's a calculated risk for sure, it was necessary though, regardless of that, let's say he declines in year 5 of the contract, down to a 50 point player, you really think that in 6 years the cap hasn't gone up enough that the contract doesn't look nearly as bad, seems like putting up 40-50 points and making 8 million now is terrible, but will it be in 6 years?

LMAO! YES. Of course yes.

 

[rypper]

Do any of you have any links? This all Just sounds like a bad memory competition.

Ryan Kennedy article:

This season's best free agent might end up being Vancouver's Judd Brackett

The Canucks' director of amateur scouting is on an expiring contract and according to multiple sources around the league, tension with GM Jim Benning may end in an exit. Vancouver's loss would be a major win for whichever NHL team snapped up the top hockey mind.

thehockeynews.com

Brackett was ostensibly in charge of the draft, but it doesn't sound like he always had the easiest time convincing his boss to make certain choices. Thankfully for Canucks fans, Brackett has prevailed more often than not - particularly at the 2017 draft when a skinny Swede was available early.

"My understanding," said the scout, "is that Pettersson was never a guy Benning wanted."

This was echoed by other sources and keep in mind, Pettersson wasn't universally ranked as high as the No. 5 slot the Canucks picked him at. Casey Mittelstadt was still on the board at the time, as was WHL star Cody Glass. Vancouver easily could have gone a different way and no one would have batted an eye. Instead, the Canucks landed a foundational center.

Imac comment about Benning deferring to Brackett:

Drance's article on Brackett:

Autonomy and a breakdown in trust: Why Judd Brackett is leaving the Canucks

Inside the end of a relationship that was fruitful and productive for Brackett and for the Canucks organization.

theathletic.com

Linden's comments:



(Why would the POHO need to step in, if it wasn't the GM he was overriding?)

 

[andora]

You consider 40 points to be reasonably good production for a guy making 8M?

Ask Dallas how Benn & Seguin contracts are. I mean they are at about .5 PPG, take faceoffs, and potentially could elevate during the playoffs. I guess they are worth it.

First of all they are both 9.5 not 8
Second of all sefuin started the contrct poorly from the get go and ben gave one good year so far. If miller falls one year in then throw up your arms

I thought the pretense of the exchange was in the last couple years of the deal the produxtion goes to .5.. or did that change?

If miller produces ppg for the first few years, then falls down to .5 in the last 2 while contributing in other areas it has been fine

He puts up 30 points in 23/24 yeah bad

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Annndddd again, if we cashed out on Horvat and Miller, why the hell would
Petey stick around after next season? Why wouldn't Demko, Pod and Hughes not all ask for a trade?

Why would any of our young core stick around for a rebuild?

That's the problem, especially Petey, who said he wanted to be on a competitive team, we would basically lose him and hope to draft another one, which seems really dumb, does it not?

i do honestly think re-signing jtm was the best possible move given the circumstances

but if we’d been able to cash him out for a good return, which the market didn’t seem to yield, and then horvat was also converted into younger assets, i don’t see why petey, hughes, and demko would all of a sudden ask for trades. they’re not kane and toews staring down their late prime or last years, respectively. they’re guys in their 20.

and sidenote: when petey said he wanted to be on a competitive team i don’t think he meant he wanted to be on a playoff bubble team. imo the reasonable interpretation of that statement is he wanted to see that there was a future and not adding boat anchor contracts every year (à la beagle/roussel/schaller, myers/ferland, holtby, and OEL/poolman in his first four offseasons with the team).

did mackinnon and landeskog ask for trades when colorado moved on from duchene and varlamov? did pietrangelo and tarasenko want to leave after st louis transitioned away from backes and oshie? or even hedman and stamkos when lecavalier and st louis left? the trick is your younger vets have to see a vision, not just markstrom, tanev, and toffoli walking with nothing coming back (which of course was the original context of the petey comments).