GDT: UFC 216: Ferguson vs. Lee

Discussion in 'Mixed Martial Arts' started by Avs_19, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. m9

    m9 Registered User

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    Of course I read it, and also the response from the UFC. It was usual fighter/promoter bickering.. happens all the time. Hardly some terrible treatment like you are insinuating. DJ was asked to fight against a guy that usually fought in another division. That's it. Fighters do it all the time.

    This whole "upside" to fighting a guy thing is just so weird. He's still fighting, still getting paid. What was the "upside" to fighting Ray Borg?

    He just wanted the easier fight, that's it.
     
  2. LSCII

    LSCII Dark Cloud

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    So wait, you're saying that Johnson coming out and calling white and the UFC's mistreatment of him as being the usual? Really? Seriously? You can't really be suggesting that a guy who never once said a bad thing against the company actually coming out and saying he's been bullied and threatened to be par for the course, can you? lol

    DJ has toed the company line for years and never complained about pay, not being pushed, exclusion from PPVs, and the like. So when he did, it showed you how frustrated and upset he was. He didn't want to fight Borg. They forced him to. Then, at the last second, they wanted him to fight a guy that's not in his weight class, that's not a title holder in another division. Since they were so adamant about Borg, he stuck it to them, and rightly so.

    The upside to fighting Borg is pretty obvious. He was the next guy in line, per the organization. He was a one dimensional opponent that DJ would likely handle easily, and that he'd set the record against if he executed properly. Dillishaw was a guy with no track record at the weight, wasn't a champ from another division, wasn't a big PPV draw, and represented a ton of unknowns for DJ. There was no value to him putting his streak at risk since the payoff wasn't anything special. You say this is a business and other guys slot up and down all the time. Sure, that's true, but why is it only a business for the UFC? Why is it that when a fighter makes a business decision, he gets ridiculed? DJ had a much easier, more predictable fight against Borg than he would against Dillishaw. He made a business decision to force the UFC to stand by their original decision because that was best for his career, which is his business and how he makes money. If he took that Dillishaw fight and lost, it would literally invalidate his entire career at that weight. People would say the only reason he looked good was because the level of competition at his weight was sub par. So again, zero upside to taking on a former champ in a different division just to help the UFC salvage a marginal PPV.
     
  3. m9

    m9 Registered User

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    I think we're in agreement that DJ just wanted the easier fight, so that's fine.

    The rest of what you wrote about this harsh mistreatment or whatever is just being dramatic. It wasn't a big deal and got figured out rather quickly.
     
  4. Jasper

    Jasper Registered User

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    So DJ took the easy fight because of politics. Lets see him fight TJ next then. There's a DJ fight I'd actually be interested in.
     
  5. LSCII

    LSCII Dark Cloud

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    If I were DJ, I'd be looking at the winner of Garbrandt Dillishaw.
     
  6. Rocko604

    Rocko604 Playoffs?

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    He might be going after Anderson's 16 straight win record now. He's at 13. He's not leaving 125 if that's the case. IMO, I want to see him fight the Garbrandt/Dillawshaw winner as well, at 135. No different than Conor going up to fight RDA at the time. He has nothing to lose (except the Silva streak I guess). But knowing how Dana and the UFC would promote it, all the pressure to win would be on DJ.

    I've heard a lot of comparison to Anderson, and how he wasn't scared to move up in weight, Anderson would fight anyonez!11! Yeah, he moved up to 205 to fight James Irvin, Forrest Griffin (albeit just coming off losing the LHW belt) and put Stephen Bonnar into retirement. There was no chance in hell at the time that Anderson was going to move up to fight Liddell, Rampage, Shogun, or Jones, regardless if he would have been the favourite to win.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  7. MD thaivuN

    MD thaivuN Anime Music Hipster

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    Promotional-wise, i think only Garbrandt makes sense for DJ. Dillashaw is not a particularly good draw. I'm not even sure he draws more than the winner of Cejudo/Pettis.

    And if Garbrandt passes the Dillashaw test, DJ might be the one that makes the most sense for Garbrandt too. After Dillashaw, the next contenders are Rivera & Cruz, who are facing each other. Don't think UFC/WME is all that pressed to give Rivera or Cruz a title shot. If Dillashaw wins, UFC will probably just go back to status quo and do their usual non-promotion of lower weight classes
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  8. m9

    m9 Registered User

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    This stuff about Silva is just plain garbage.

    As you mentioned, Griffin was one of the top 205 guys around at the time. Pretty big step-up.

    Irvin was scheduled because Affliction had their PPV the same night and the UFC tried to put together a last-minute card - Silva took the fight on a month's notice.

    For the Bonnar fight, the main event dropped out fairly last minute (I want to say Aldo dropped out but I'm not 100%) and Silva filled in to save the card.

    And of course you left off him fighting Daniel Cormier, either the #1 or #2 LHW of all-time on like 3 days notice.

    So fought a top guy in Griffin, two short notice fights to help the UFC, and then fought possibly the best LHW of all-time on a few days notice. But yeah, "no chance in hell" he would move up to fight others? Give me a break.
     
  9. m9

    m9 Registered User

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    Hard to really figure it out with these fights upcoming. I could see a close fight between Dillashaw and Garbrandt as well that leads to a rematch.
     
  10. Rocko604

    Rocko604 Playoffs?

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    Did he fight Jones, Liddell, Rampage or Shogun when he was MW champ? No he didn't. The only time Anderson moved up was to help out the UFC, but only as long as he was put in a position where his legacy would not be tarnished, be it easy fight ( he was heavily favoured over Forrest), or coming off the couch on 3 days notice to fight one of the GOATs. (I left that one off because he wasn't MW champ).

    But yeah, DJ needs to move up to prove himself as legit.

    End of the day, I really don't care if champions move up in weight. I don't care that Silva didn't fight Jones, or GSP didn't fight Silva etc. My point was using "Anderson fought LHW" as a way to dismiss DJ's accomplishment is a weak argument given who he fought while still MW champ.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  11. kurt

    kurt the last emperor

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    I think I'd be more interested in getting another crack at a Cruz fight if I was DJ, but I doubt Cruz considers that unless he loses his fight to Rivera. If Cruz wins, he'll he taking the winner of Cody/TJ I presume. That would maybe leave the loser of Cody/TJ to potentially fight DJ at 135, or maybe Sergio Pettis emerges as a worthy challenger at 125 if he somehow gets through Cejudo (though I wouldn't bet on that).
     
  12. m9

    m9 Registered User

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    I never said DJ needs to move up to be legit, and I also don't care if champions move up in weight. I agree with you on all of that.

    You chose to spin something that is a positive on Silva's record (moving up in weight with some success) into a negative because you didn't like the guys he had faced. I'll also add your timeline is off anyway, as Anderson Silva become the MW champ the same year Chuck Liddell lost the belt. Liddell was then retired within 3 years. I don't really see much room for some superfight between the two that would make sense. Nobody even talked about this like it was a thing at the time. It's also a time when many of the guys in the mix at 185/205 jumped between both divisions - Franklin, Belfort, Henderson, etc. Silva beat them all. You think those fights go any differently at 205 lbs?
     
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  13. kurt

    kurt the last emperor

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    Has anyone ever had as dominant/unblemished run as DJ? The only thing that comes close is Ben Askren, with maybe someone like Anderson Silva or Ronda Rousey in shouting distance. Guys like GSP, Fedor, Aldo etc all had great runs, but took some pretty substantial damage in some of their fights. It seems like, outside of a very small handful of moments, DJ has been on cruise control. It's incredible.
     
  14. Sheppy

    Sheppy Registered User

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    I think it's more less Anderson's fights over the last 2-3 years that are kind of overshadowing how good he was/is. If Anderson retired after the 2nd Weidman fight, it doesn't look so bad... but the loss to Bisping, the no contest to Diaz and the lousy win against Brunson kind of hurt him a bit.
     
  15. Rocko604

    Rocko604 Playoffs?

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    No you did not. If you go back to my OP, this wasn't based on stuff I've read on here, but on what I've been hearing (on siriusxm) and other forums, which has been a lot of "yeah DJ beat Anderson's record but Anderson moved up to LHW! DJ should have to fight Cody or TJ to prove himself". And my argument is "yes he did, but unlike what you want DJ to do, who did Anderson fight at LHW? Forrest, who was coming off a loss, and a couple of scrubs."
     
  16. m9

    m9 Registered User

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    The initial argument by other people is dumb (DJ v Anderson and moving up in weight) but you've essentially answered their dumb opinion by offering an equally questionable opinion.

    It's also worth mentioning that Anderson Silva had ALREADY moved up in weight to get to 185 in the first place. He was a very accomplished fighter at "welterweight" to the point that he was supposed to fight Matt Hughes for the belt at UFC 36 before it fell through. So you've got a guy that was a high-level at 170lbs, the best all-time at 185lbs, plus what he did at 205.
     
  17. td_ice

    td_ice Peter shows the way

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    Just getting around to watching the prelims now.

    Man, that Vannata Green fight, what a war.

    Really interesting too, when the fight was announced a draw, both fighters seemed very pleased with the call. Tons of much respect for each either. They also knew that that was most likely gonna be good enough for FOTN.
     

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