Speculation: UFA targets

[Flowah]

Only sign players they can flip at the deadline. Nothing over two years..He should be bargain hunting and that's it.

++

At this point, Holland can spend money to acquire picks, essentially. Get those short term, flippable players for free during FA, then trade for picks. Obviously we want to go for guys who'll get us higher round picks but if it's just a 4-6 rounder and they're cheap, who cares?

Oh and try to leave a bit of caproom.

 

[jkutswings]

I agree on Del Zotto. Sounds like a good move.

I really am not okay with them just standing pat. I know everyone wants them to suck next year too so they can land Dahlin... but I think they need to look at refurbishing this team more than hope and pray to be #1 or #2OA with the same roster.

Move Green, one of Nike or Tats, and use a ocuple of those thirds to entice VGK to take on Ericsson or Helm or someone.

Shake up the roster and then sign an Oshie or someone and add a reclamation project or two like Vanek.

Bringing back the same ridiculously flawed roster next year should be out of the question.

And if they did land Oshie...

Nike/Tatar-Z-Mantha
AA-Nielsen-Oshie

Looks like a pretty good top 6.

And the Wings would be setting themselves up to never lose a shootout ever.

It's those darn shootouts that are preventing them from going after Patrick or Hischier.

 

[BinCookin]

I agree on Del Zotto. Sounds like a good move.

I really am not okay with them just standing pat. I know everyone wants them to suck next year too so they can land Dahlin... but I think they need to look at refurbishing this team more than hope and pray to be #1 or #2OA with the same roster.

Move Green, one of Nike or Tats, and use a ocuple of those thirds to entice VGK to take on Ericsson or Helm or someone.

Shake up the roster and then sign an Oshie or someone and add a reclamation project or two like Vanek.

Bringing back the same ridiculously flawed roster next year should be out of the question.

And if they did land Oshie...

Nike/Tatar-Z-Mantha
AA-Nielsen-Oshie

Looks like a pretty good top 6.

And the Wings would be setting themselves up to never lose a shootout ever.

I have always been optimistic around here.
But considering where our team is... Signing an Oshie is a waste of time.
Besides the fact I do not think any FA's are going to sign here. Not once we have proven to be a basement team.

What we really need is our own young players to improve. If they dont first overall pick. If they do, we will get closer to the playoffs.

I do not think our team has been failing for 5 years. I think we have been doing what we should be doing. But with this year as a clear example... What we should be doing going forward is a full on rebuild.

This means:

Use Draft picks on drafting
Try trading up in the draft
Sign UFA's to 1 year deals to flip them for picks later in the year.
At this point everything is about 25 yr old players and younger.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's kinda what the Oakland A's do. Sign a guy to a short term deal...they play better than expected and their stock goes up in-season and the flip them for prospects.

And what have the Oakland As won since instituting Moneyball? The right to get jackhammered by Detroit or New York in the playoffs.

The Wings aren't a Moneyball-like team. They never have been and they never should be. They need to be more judicious about their long term deals to average players... but they're not operating on a shoestring budget here.

Look at the Patriots for success tips, not the Oakland As. Find one thing a player is good at and let him go at it. Bring in a guy to plug one hole. Do they have a role on the team? Good, play them. If they don't, cut them loose.

Don't complicate things more than necessary. If you need a puck moving D, go get a puck moving D (Del Zotto). Identify one thing a player can do well and put him to it. If you have a truly elite talent like Z, he can be a do-everything type of guy. Everyone who is kinda middling though? Get them doing one thing and excelling at that one thing as opposed to being okay at everything.

 

[BinCookin]

And what have the Oakland As won since instituting Moneyball? The right to get jackhammered by Detroit or New York in the playoffs.

The Wings aren't a Moneyball-like team. They never have been and they never should be. They need to be more judicious about their long term deals to average players... but they're not operating on a shoestring budget here.

Look at the Patriots for success tips, not the Oakland As. Find one thing a player is good at and let him go at it. Bring in a guy to plug one hole. Do they have a role on the team? Good, play them. If they don't, cut them loose.

Don't complicate things more than necessary. If you need a puck moving D, go get a puck moving D (Del Zotto). Identify one thing a player can do well and put him to it. If you have a truly elite talent like Z, he can be a do-everything type of guy. Everyone who is kinda middling though? Get them doing one thing and excelling at that one thing as opposed to being okay at everything.

Lets not compare Baseball (no cap) to Hockey (cap).

How about just look at what Toronto did with willingness to use money to gain draft picks.

Sign UFA's and flip them
Take on bad contracts

These are things Toronto did.

I would also like to be Clear. Toronto has been rebuilding for about 7-8 years, this will NOT be fast!!

 

[Winger98]

And what have the Oakland As won since instituting Moneyball? The right to get jackhammered by Detroit or New York in the playoffs.

The Wings aren't a Moneyball-like team. They never have been and they never should be. They need to be more judicious about their long term deals to average players... but they're not operating on a shoestring budget here.

Look at the Patriots for success tips, not the Oakland As. Find one thing a player is good at and let him go at it. Bring in a guy to plug one hole. Do they have a role on the team? Good, play them. If they don't, cut them loose.

Don't complicate things more than necessary. If you need a puck moving D, go get a puck moving D (Del Zotto). Identify one thing a player can do well and put him to it. If you have a truly elite talent like Z, he can be a do-everything type of guy. Everyone who is kinda middling though? Get them doing one thing and excelling at that one thing as opposed to being okay at everything.

Moneyball really isn't just getting guys, building value, and then shipping them out. It's identifying things that are undervalued. I think what Arizona is just starting to do is closer to a moneyball concept. In five years, we'll see how it pans out.

Dennis Wideman, come on down! You're the next contestant on blueline band-aids!

Mark Streit, too.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Holland wades into free agency and looks to revamp the blueline in a big way with whatever fixes he can find.

 

[Retire91]

Don't want Vanek or Ott back. If they don't have trade value then they have no place on this team. There is enough young talent to put a roster together without FA. If some cheap veteran D to short term deals can help protect our goalie a little better that might be worth it. No more veteran plug forwards. They are completely unnecessary.

 

[njx9]

Look at the Patriots for success tips, not the Oakland As. Find one thing a player is good at and let him go at it. Bring in a guy to plug one hole. Do they have a role on the team? Good, play them. If they don't, cut them loose.

Start by drafting a top 3 all-time player at the single most important position on the ice, then add one the best modern coach to help utilize that talent and an all-league caliber front office that doesn't, repeatedly, give massive extensions and idiotically long free agent contracts to mediocre-at-best role players, but instead, constantly signs extremely cheap players to those roles and then utilizes them appropriately? I'm totally in, but I think the team would need an entire new front office, coaching staff and group of players before they could pretend to be anything like the Patriots.

To the original post, there's no reason the team should sign a single new player, this offseason, to anything longer than a 1 year deal. I don't think there's a single thing the team could do in the offseason to actually be competitive, short of praying the Larkin suddenly becomes an elite 1C and Ouellet or Jensen or someone becomes an elite 1D. Might as well sit tight, grab a couple of late 1 year bargains, and be done with it.

 

[Run the Jewels]

With Shattenkirk, the only chance an awful team like Detroit has is to pay him more than any other team. That's impossible with all the **** contracts Holland has handed out like candy on Halloween. I agree with Syckle, you need to go the route you went with Vanek, cheap, short term contract or two on a reclamation project with the idea of spinning the player(s) off at the trade deadline to get more draft picks.

 

[Frk It]

Start by drafting a top 3 all-time player at the single most important position on the ice, then add one the best modern coach to help utilize that talent and an all-league caliber front office that doesn't, repeatedly, give massive extensions and idiotically long free agent contracts to mediocre-at-best role players, but instead, constantly signs extremely cheap players to those roles and then utilizes them appropriately? I'm totally in, but I think the team would need an entire new front office, coaching staff and group of players before they could pretend to be anything like the Patriots.

To the original post, there's no reason the team should sign a single new player, this offseason, to anything longer than a 1 year deal. I don't think there's a single thing the team could do in the offseason to actually be competitive, short of praying the Larkin suddenly becomes an elite 1C and Ouellet or Jensen or someone becomes an elite 1D. Might as well sit tight, grab a couple of late 1 year bargains, and be done with it.

Yeah... just last summer we re-signed Darren Helm to a 5 year, 3.85 million dollar deal with several articles coming out about how Holland is friends and has a personal relationship with Helm's fiancee.

Similar in that both teams had prolonged success. But big difference in approach. I wish we were more business-like and shrewd in decisions on players, like the Patriots are. That's where we are polar opposites.

 

[AD1066]

I would also like to be Clear. Toronto has been rebuilding for about 7-8 years, this will NOT be fast!!

You could argue that the reason Toronto has been rebuilding so long is that they tried to skip steps and accelerate the rebuild in the first place.

We have some good complimentary pieces and I think if we land that elusive 1C and 1D we'll be competitive within 5 years' time.

 

[Chris 84]

Jakub Jeřábek is a good, solid, puck-moving d-man. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=33045

of course, there is no need if russo looks good, etc, but this guy can play.

 

[Retire91]

Toronto is actually an excellent example to look at because they tried to become competitive and rebuild at the same time. Just like the wings. And it failed. Just like the wings. Toronto only acquired talent once they fully committed to the rebuild.

 

[Dead Thing Fan]

Off season signings

I'm not so sure that the Wings will be overly involved in the FA market this summer as they are in a cap crunch.

Commitments to(9 forwards) Zetts, Nielsen, Nyquist, Abby, Helm, Sheahan, Larkin, Mantha, Glendening,(6 dmen) Green, DDK, Kronner, Ericsson, Sproul, Jensen, (2 tenders)Howard and Mrazek adds up to a cap hit of (give or take)$60,575,000. Add Franzen(before being LTIRed) and Weiss's buyout adds another $6,521,212 for a total of $ $67,096,212(more or less). This leaves a little less than $6 million in available to fill out the roster. Roster UfAs are Miller, Callahan and McIlrath. More importantly than our UFAs, is resigning out RFAs: Tatar, AA, Ouellet and Russo and $6 mil ain't going to be enough.

Holland will have to use some of those draft picks to get Vegas to take Howard off our hands and free up $5.2 million.


I personally have no interest in signing any player over the age of 30 and this includes Vanek. GO YOUNG!!!!!!

 

[BinCookin]

I'm not so sure that the Wings will be overly involved in the FA market this summer as they are in a cap crunch.

Commitments to(9 forwards) Zetts, Nielsen, Nyquist, Abby, Helm, Sheahan, Larkin, Mantha, Glendening,(6 dmen) Green, DDK, Kronner, Ericsson, Sproul, Jensen, (2 tenders)Howard and Mrazek adds up to a cap hit of (give or take)$60,575,000. Add Franzen(before being LTIRed) and Weiss's buyout adds another $6,521,212 for a total of $ $67,096,212(more or less). This leaves a little less than $6 million in available to fill out the roster. Roster UfAs are Miller, Callahan and McIlrath. More importantly than our UFAs, is resigning out RFAs: Tatar, AA, Ouellet and Russo and $6 mil ain't going to be enough.

Holland will have to use some of those draft picks to get Vegas to take Howard off our hands and free up $5.2 million.


I personally have no interest in signing any player over the age of 30 and this includes Vanek. GO YOUNG!!!!!!

No RFA's in Detroit are going to get very big raises if they remain the worst offensive team in the league!

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

nobody for more than three years and really lets be honest. nobody great is gonna wanna come here and thats just fine

no chance shattenkirk says yes detroit, give me some of that

del zotto sounds good
vanek on a 1 year deal

also DO NOT give away picks so Vegas take sa ad contract

force them too by dealing away one of tatar or sheahan for a prospect dman and then leave nothing but bad contracts for vegas to look through

 

[Debrincat93]

honestly, i would be OK with a full tanker again for the hell of it.

Pick 1-2 guys to not rush a few kids, flip them for picks at the deadline and just keep it moving. Do this right and we can be back in the mix of things. Do it wrong and delay the inevitable and, well... we know how that will work.

 

[Flowah]

And what have the Oakland As won since instituting Moneyball? The right to get jackhammered by Detroit or New York in the playoffs.

The Wings aren't a Moneyball-like team. They never have been and they never should be. They need to be more judicious about their long term deals to average players... but they're not operating on a shoestring budget here.

Look at the Patriots for success tips, not the Oakland As. Find one thing a player is good at and let him go at it. Bring in a guy to plug one hole. Do they have a role on the team? Good, play them. If they don't, cut them loose.

Don't complicate things more than necessary. If you need a puck moving D, go get a puck moving D (Del Zotto). Identify one thing a player can do well and put him to it. If you have a truly elite talent like Z, he can be a do-everything type of guy. Everyone who is kinda middling though? Get them doing one thing and excelling at that one thing as opposed to being okay at everything.

You're taking the wrong lesson from Moneyball. It's about cost-effectiveness. If you can be that effective on a tight budget, you can be even better with a bigger budget. It's about being able to identify talent and sign it to a good contract.

I would also like to be Clear. Toronto has been rebuilding for about 7-8 years, this will NOT be fast!!

Ahhhhhhh why do people keep saying this? Toronto before Shanahan wasn't a rebuild. They were trading for guys like Phaneuf and Kessel. That's not a rebuild. Just because they were bad doesn't mean they were rebuilding.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Shattenkirk, Vanek, Del Zotto I'd be ok with. I say throw bank at John Tavares at the end of next season.

 

[Shaman464]

I agree on Del Zotto. Sounds like a good move.

I really am not okay with them just standing pat. I know everyone wants them to suck next year too so they can land Dahlin... but I think they need to look at refurbishing this team more than hope and pray to be #1 or #2OA with the same roster.

Move Green, one of Nike or Tats, and use a ocuple of those thirds to entice VGK to take on Ericsson or Helm or someone.

Shake up the roster and then sign an Oshie or someone and add a reclamation project or two like Vanek.

Bringing back the same ridiculously flawed roster next year should be out of the question.

And if they did land Oshie...

Nike/Tatar-Z-Mantha
AA-Nielsen-Oshie

Looks like a pretty good top 6.

And the Wings would be setting themselves up to never lose a shootout ever.

What is moves that will make this team a bubble team again? Alex.

 

[BinCookin]

You're taking the wrong lesson from Moneyball. It's about cost-effectiveness. If you can be that effective on a tight budget, you can be even better with a bigger budget. It's about being able to identify talent and sign it to a good contract.


Ahhhhhhh why do people keep saying this? Toronto before Shanahan wasn't a rebuild. They were trading for guys like Phaneuf and Kessel. That's not a rebuild. Just because they were bad doesn't mean they were rebuilding.

If you want me to reword...

They have been acquiring top 7 OA draft picks for 6-7 years now....

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

IMO, Steve Ott and Thomas Vanek are more than welcome back next season

I'd be ok with both.

Hopefully with a better Coach & GM in charge of things, we can somehow rid ourselves of guys like Sheahan, Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Kronwall, etc. I know for a few it'd be very difficult, but at this point, we need the majority of minutes given to guys like AA, Bertuzzi, Nosek, Svechnikov, and Frk (among others) to show what they can do when given the opportunity.

It's a long shot, I know...but it's what I'd like to see happen.

 

[Flowah]

If you want me to reword...

They have been acquiring top 7 OA draft picks for 6-7 years now....

Being bad isn't enough to rebuild into a successful team, who knew? You need to be bad enough to get high picks, draft well, and not deadweight your team with bad trades and bad contracts.

When you're bad on accident, like the Leafs were and we are, that prolongs the suck. Not surprising their turnaround from just 3 years ago given their solid new gameplan. Not surprising our suckage given our "we like our team"gameplan.

 

[njx9]

Yeah... just last summer we re-signed Darren Helm to a 5 year, 3.85 million dollar deal with several articles coming out about how Holland is friends and has a personal relationship with Helm's fiancee.

Similar in that both teams had prolonged success. But big difference in approach. I wish we were more business-like and shrewd in decisions on players, like the Patriots are. That's where we are polar opposites.

Exactly. If that's the model you want to follow, you have to be cutthroat and cold enough to tell a guy like Vanek to get lost when he comes back and asks for 2+ years. You skip on any players like Nielsen, if they won't budge off of a 5-year guaranteed contract. And you certainly don't throw the boat at a guy like Oshie, on the off chance he can put the team back into 8th place. Find the bargains. I'm not sure I loved Ott, but that was exactly the kind of contract the team should be going for - short, cheap, buryable if it gets ugly, moveable if the guy has a career season.

 

[BinCookin]

Being bad isn't enough to rebuild into a successful team, who knew? You need to be bad enough to get high picks, draft well, and not deadweight your team with bad trades and bad contracts.

When you're bad on accident, like the Leafs were and we are, that prolongs the suck. Not surprising their turnaround from just 3 years ago given their solid new gameplan. Not surprising our suckage given our "we like our team"gameplan.

Everything is not black and white, you make it seem like
Morgan Reilly and Nazem Kadri do not at all have any addition to their rebuild, when they clearly do.

My main point is Toronto is not in year 2 of a rebuild. They are most likely in year 10 of many ****** rebuilds... AND that that starting point is much further ahead than where we are NOW.