TSN: Jack Johnson will not be suspended

[Blind Gardien]

GKJ, I dont disagree with that. But I do maintain my stance that Downie embellished the whole thing and Johnson didnt make much contact. That was my only point here. No one is trying to defend Johnson.

My only question is how anybody thinks they can state definitively whether much contact was made or not. It looked upon careful review (from the extremely crappy camera angle) like it was a glancing blow to the side of the head... which is actually probably not as bad as the initial live action made it seem (because the speed of Johnson's cutback and his violent elbowing motion, and Downie's collapse certainly combined to make it initially seem quite brutal).

But even having formed that general opinion, I wouldn't go on to tell anybody that I've definitely got it right. We just don't have enough to go on, really. And by extension, we similarly can have no clue about whether or not Downie was embellishing or not. Just because it is in his character to do so doesn't mean that he did it in this case. It's another unknown.

So if you take the stance that we don't really know the finer details of what happened, most of the posters here are judging on the "intent", which seems to be the most clear thing we can see.

I tend to be in agreement with Bruwinz37 that what Johnson did was pretty classless and wrong. And in a vacuum, in a hockey world of my own personal preference, a glancing blow with no real injury sustained, even if the attempt to injure was made as classlessly as it was, is no cause for suspension.

However, stepping out of that vacuum into what has typically been an ultra-conservative IIHF approach with respect to acts of violence, I'm a little surprised that they weren't more severe. Pleased, because I want to see more of Johnson, who is one of the best players in the tournament, but a little bit surprised.

 

[Bruwinz37]

My only question is how anybody thinks they can state definitively whether much contact was made or not. It looked upon careful review (from the extremely crappy camera angle) like it was a glancing blow to the side of the head... which is actually probably not as bad as the initial live action made it seem (because the speed of Johnson's cutback and his violent elbowing motion, and Downie's collapse certainly combined to make it initially seem quite brutal).

But even having formed that general opinion, I wouldn't go on to tell anybody that I've definitely got it right. We just don't have enough to go on, really. And by extension, we similarly can have no clue about whether or not Downie was embellishing or not. Just because it is in his character to do so doesn't mean that he did it in this case. It's another unknown.

So if you take the stance that we don't really know the finer details of what happened, most of the posters here are judging on the "intent", which seems to be the most clear thing we can see.

I tend to be in agreement with Bruwinz37 that what Johnson did was pretty classless and wrong. And in a vacuum, in a hockey world of my own personal preference, a glancing blow with no real injury sustained, even if the attempt to injure was made as classlessly as it was, is no cause for suspension.

However, stepping out of that vacuum into what has typically been an ultra-conservative IIHF approach with respect to acts of violence, I'm a little surprised that they weren't more severe. Pleased, because I want to see more of Johnson, who is one of the best players in the tournament, but a little bit surprised.

Thank you for your well thought out post. Clearly I am not stating definitively that Johnson missed. I am merely giving my opinion on the matter, which is all I have to go by.

 

[WCR]

On the other hand - this is how another sporting organisation deal with elbows:

Henson awaits Dunlop decision

Wales and Ospreys centre Gavin Henson faces a nervous wait to discover whether he will be cited for an off-the-ball clash with Leicester prop Alejandro Moreno in yesterday's fractious Heineken Cup Rugby Union game at the Liberty Stadium.

Moreno launched a swinging arm at Henson, who reacted with an elbow-led challenge to leave the Italian international nursing a nasty facial wound. As Moreno fell to the ground, Henson appeared to aim a kick at him which missed.

If citing commissioner Bill Dunlop takes action, Henson could find himself suspended when Wales open their RBS 6 Nations defence against England at Twickenham.

And the outcome of this incident?

Gavin Henson will miss the first three matches of Wales' Six Nations title defence after he was banned for more than 10 weeks on Friday for elbowing an opponent.

Henson was banned for 72 days to March by a European Rugby Cup disciplinary panel in Glasgow, Scotland, for breaking Leicester prop Alejandro Moreno's nose while playing for Ospreys in a Heineken Cup match on Sunday. A second charge that he aimed a kick at Moreno was dismissed.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Not sure how anyone can defend such a brutal elbow to the head!

Jackson and Downie both exchanged little taps to the legs with their sticks, no reason to throw that vicious eblow out. It was a dirty cheapshot, probably out of frustration from losing the game. It's especially bad considering Downie didn't have the puck and it was not as if Jackson was going in for a hit and just happened to have his elbows up, he blatantly tried to take his head off with his elbow. He is young and no need to hold it against him in the future, unless he continues with such acts, but nonetheless it was a brutal elblow that probably did deserve a match penalty.

Agreed. It's a one time incident and should have no bearing on what happens to Jack down the road HOWEVER, I do feel that a one game suspension would have been appropriate.

 

[Charge_Seven]

Is it just me or is all this beginning to sound like the Kennedy assassination? Slo-mo replays. Theories about the head not moving in the direction it should after being struck from a particular direction. Conspiracies about missing camera angles. What's next, Walt Kyle on the grassy knoll?

I'm outta here before Zapgruder shows up with new film.

There was a second elbower...

 

[GKJ]

GKJ, I dont disagree with that. But I do maintain my stance that Downie embellished the whole thing and Johnson didnt make much contact. That was my only point here. No one is trying to defend Johnson.

Did you see TSN show Downie after the hit? Downie was in another zip code.

 

[Blind Gardien]

There was a second elbower...

And what about the knee, that's what I want to know! Was the whole TSN crappy replay faked? Notice how they tried to show it on the goal-cam too, but it conveniently swung away from the players just before contact occurred. Maybe there is more "embellishment" going on here than just what Downie is alleged to have done!

 

[Bruwinz37]

Did you see TSN show Downie after the hit? Downie was in another zip code.

No I didnt. Center Ice cut me off right after the game. Did they interview Downie? I havent seen one story on his injury if he has one. Have you?

 

[JrHockeyFan]

Watched again today

This could go on forever, but, having just watched it again:

The head does not snap back because he did not hit him in the face. Johnson has skated past Downie and throws the elbow too late to hit him there. Downie is also turning to his right as Johnson goes by.

It is interesting to note though that the back of Downies left ear appears to be sticking out awkwardly from that semi-covered hole as if his helmet was pushed forward from behind the ear. A blow from the front would not make that happen.

This one single angle shown is not conclusive about anything except that Johnson threw an elbow. And that there was no way that Downie could see it coming. A cheap shot all around, not that hitting him in the face would be better(?)

If you have condemned Johnson in this thread (other than "not condoning" elbows) it must be mild criticism indeed. You have spent more time critical of Downie. The "two hander" decription of Downies retaliation for being whacked first is embellished by the way. Yes he has two hands on his stick, but the hit was nothing. Certainly no worse than what he retaliated for.

By the way, game drawn examples of "intent" for hits along the board or goalies hacking at skaters are not applicable in this incident. Guys expect to be hit along the boards and forwards expect a little stick action if they are screening the net really tight. Elbows thrown after a stoppage in play when players leave the ice does not compare in any way. This makes it a non-game action designed not to get a game result, but rather just an attempt to hurt the other guy.

Finally, the IIHF did not review the incident from what I have heard. They immediately said this after the game. I am hazarding a guess that since they just got finished telling the refs to put the whistle away, they did not want to question the ref for not handing out a match penalty. The ref essentially delivered the style of calling they asked for. The fact that it was called a "kneeing" incident is not flattering to the ref since he was standing right there. Unless of course he was looking elsehwere which I cannot tell.

Bottom line here. TIVO all you want to: Johnson got away with one.

 

[Crosbyfan]

What if the exact same thing happens in the final game, say with the US scoring into an empty net to win 4-2, and Downie elbows Johnson in the exact same manner, with the exact same apparent intent, except Johnson ends up with a serious injury?

Who's fault is it?

Obviously it would be Downie's. Is it also Johnson's? The IIHF's?

I would be hard pressed not to blame the IIHF.

 

[Wranglers110]

It doesn't matter what Downie did before and it doesn't matter if Downie is alright. You don't throw elbows with the intent to injure. Period.

At best, Johnson can say he was outsmarted by a pest.

 

[bleedgreen]

couple of people have called it a "flying elbow". which i find curious since he never left his feet, and wouldnt have to for an elbow. not saying it didnt happen, but it definitely wasnt a "flying" elbow.

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

Enough of this Jack Johnson elbow its in the past...Lets move forward towards another gold medal

GO CANADA

 

[Crosbyfan]

Enough of this Jack Johnson elbow its in the past...Lets move forward towards another gold medal

GO CANADA

Yes, let us ignore cheapshots to the head. If we just ignore them maybe they will go away. It is only coincidence that it happens more in hockey than in other sports because it is accepted in hockey more than other sports. It's not a very serious thing anyway. It's not like anyones carreer was ever shortened by concussions caused by cheapshots to the head.

 

[Bruwinz37]

This could go on forever, but, having just watched it again:

The head does not snap back because he did not hit him in the face. Johnson has skated past Downie and throws the elbow too late to hit him there. Downie is also turning to his right as Johnson goes by.

It is interesting to note though that the back of Downies left ear appears to be sticking out awkwardly from that semi-covered hole as if his helmet was pushed forward from behind the ear. A blow from the front would not make that happen.

This one single angle shown is not conclusive about anything except that Johnson threw an elbow. And that there was no way that Downie could see it coming. A cheap shot all around, not that hitting him in the face would be better(?)

If you have condemned Johnson in this thread (other than "not condoning" elbows) it must be mild criticism indeed. You have spent more time critical of Downie. The "two hander" decription of Downies retaliation for being whacked first is embellished by the way. Yes he has two hands on his stick, but the hit was nothing. Certainly no worse than what he retaliated for.

By the way, game drawn examples of "intent" for hits along the board or goalies hacking at skaters are not applicable in this incident. Guys expect to be hit along the boards and forwards expect a little stick action if they are screening the net really tight. Elbows thrown after a stoppage in play when players leave the ice does not compare in any way. This makes it a non-game action designed not to get a game result, but rather just an attempt to hurt the other guy.

Finally, the IIHF did not review the incident from what I have heard. They immediately said this after the game. I am hazarding a guess that since they just got finished telling the refs to put the whistle away, they did not want to question the ref for not handing out a match penalty. The ref essentially delivered the style of calling they asked for. The fact that it was called a "kneeing" incident is not flattering to the ref since he was standing right there. Unless of course he was looking elsehwere which I cannot tell.

Bottom line here. TIVO all you want to: Johnson got away with one.

Well hey, you are making progress, you realize it wasnt a hit from behind like you so vehemently exclaimed earlier. Baby steps......

 

[bleedgreen]

Yes, let us ignore cheapshots to the head. If we just ignore them maybe they will go away. It is only coincidence that it happens more in hockey than in other sports because it is accepted in hockey more than other sports. It's not a very serious thing anyway. It's not like anyones carreer was ever shortened by concussions caused by cheapshots to the head.

ignoring cheapshots to the head worked for mark messiers career.

 

[bhj]

Hideous cheap shot..

No suspension..

 

[GKJ]

No I didnt. Center Ice cut me off right after the game. Did they interview Downie? I havent seen one story on his injury if he has one. Have you?

I'm talking about directly on the ice right after the hit. He needed help skating to the bench.

 

[Bruwinz37]

I'm talking about directly on the ice right after the hit. He needed help skating to the bench.

Cant say I did, but I dont doubt it.

Really makes you wonder why Hockey Canada didnt want the play reviewed, eh?

 

[Macman]

Cant say I did, but I dont doubt it.

Really makes you wonder why Hockey Canada didnt want the play reviewed, eh?

I can think of a few reasons why they didn't ask for a review:

1. Why give the Americans any extra motivation in the event of a rematch.

2. Sutter's a tough nut. Maybe he thinks it's all just part of the game.

3. Maybe Canada prefers to let an already tired Johnson play an extra game instead of giving him a day off for a game the Americans will likely win anyway.

4. Maybe Canada wants to use it as motivation in the event of a rematch.

Please, enough with the conspiracy theories. You've gone from Downie embellishing the hit to Hockey Canada and even TSN helping cover up that embellishment.

 

[ZombieMatt]

It's unfortunate that this debate is even happening. It should have been a very cut and dry affair.

Jack Johnson attempted to injure a player. Whether or not he actually DID is completely irrelevant. The intent to injure is obvious, I don't think anybody could deny it.

Intent to injure a player is a suspension. JJ should have been suspended.

 

[Transported Upstater]

It's unfortunate that this debate is even happening. It should have been a very cut and dry affair.

Jack Johnson attempted to injure a player. Whether or not he actually DID is completely irrelevant. The intent to injure is obvious, I don't think anybody could deny it.

Intent to injure a player is a suspension. JJ should have been suspended.

I agree, Matt.

 

[Crosbyfan]

It's unfortunate that this debate is even happening. It should have been a very cut and dry affair.

Jack Johnson attempted to injure a player. Whether or not he actually DID is completely irrelevant. The intent to injure is obvious, I don't think anybody could deny it.

Intent to injure a player is a suspension. JJ should have been suspended.

I agree. Hopefully there will be no more attempts to injure in the tournament. The IIHF has certainly dropped the ball on this one. If there is any more cheapshotting of this kind hopefully there will be appropriate suspensions. Regardless of who commits them or what team they play for.

 

[allcar67]

What's it take to become a fuss in your estimation? A broken neck or jaw? Concussion? Death? Johnson's elbow was every bit as nasty as Bertuzzi's hit from behind. Maybe even worse since he used an elbow encased in hard plastic instead of a gloved fist. The intent in both cases was retribution, maybe even to injure. The only difference last night was Johnson was lucky enough not to have succeeded.

You can seriously injure someone when you do what Johnson did, and the punishment should reflect that. It shouldn't be mitigated by whether or not he actually managed to maim a guy.

You Canadians are really entertaining to read. Do you really think that a player barely grazing another player after being slashed by that player is the same as a player being stalked up and down the ice and nearly killed after the team said that there would be an attack on him like Steve Moore was by Bertuzzi? If so, I'm glad I'm not living in your country under your system of "justice."

By the way, if Jack Johnson should be thrown out of this tournament, how do you people allow a real criminal like Bertuzzi to represent you on your Olympic team?

Also, after the garbage that Steve Downie pulled on his junior team, how did your hockey federation even allow him on your national junior team?

Jack Johnson's play was a "heat of the moment" fit of stupidity by an 18 year old. Todd Bertuzzi's attack was a team condoned mandate. If you can't see the difference, I feel sorry for you and your country.

 

[Transported Upstater]

You Canadians are really entertaining to read. Do you really think that a player barely grazing another player after being slashed by that player is the same as a player being stalked up and down the ice and nearly killed after the team said that there would be an attack on him like Steve Moore was by Bertuzzi? If so, I'm glad I'm not living in your country under your system of "justice."

By the way, if Jack Johnson should be thrown out of this tournament, how do you people allow a real criminal like Bertuzzi to represent you on your Olympic team?

Also, after the garbage that Steve Downie pulled on his junior team, how did your hockey federation even allow him on your national junior team?

Jack Johnson's play was a "heat of the moment" fit of stupidity by an 18 year old. Todd Bertuzzi's attack was a team condoned mandate. If you can't see the difference, I feel sorry for you and your country.

Are you the same allcar67 who posted on tsn?

Because this makes sense if you are.