Olympics: [TSN] IOC will have to pay for NHL players

[Finlandia WOAT]

What context are you referring to?

The context that anything averaging 21 million viewers on cable television is very, very good?

You decided it's not by comparing television broadcast numbers to the population as a whole, which is asinine.

 

[Xokkeu]

In 2014 there were roughly 245 million US persons age 18 and older...averaging 21 million viewers means typically 91% of US adults were NOT watching the Olympics; the Sochi Olympics weren't watched by many more people than popular TV shows that year

I figured out a long time ago that so called "popular shows" like American Idol (which at its peak had over 30 million average viewers) may be considered "popular" but in reality the vast majority is NOT paying attention

Regarding the Sochi Olympics, when 9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention, that doesn't show a lot of "care" IMO; we'll just have to agree to disagree

I don't have cable myself and don't watch TV; I'm part of the vast majority of North American adults that at any given time is NOT watching anything on TV

Thanks for the discussion

Yes compared to breathing the Olympics are not popular. Compare to other sporting events however. Only the super bowl beats it. As NBC showed by dropping its matters enough to drop $4 billion on.

 

[Xokkeu]

I am wondering how much ratings for olympic hockey are going to drop in Canada for games on in the early morning hours with next to no nhl players playing?

Before the NHL got involved there was still great interest in olympic hockey without pros because Canadians knew their best players could not play so it was an accepted thing and we watched because there was no option and we went in with an underdog mentality and hoped we could get the upset over juggernaut Soviet and Czech teams. But now with having had the best of our players play and win multiple golds it is difficult to see Canadians working themselves into the old mentality they used to have for olympic hockey,especially when games will be on at 3-4 in the morning.

I would have to think viewership decline is going to be very drastic here in 2018 if the NHL does not go. It could be pretty ugly.

Viewership will tank in Canada. But I doubt it takes much of a hit in the US and Europe. Maybe ou won't get 30 million American viewers for the gold medal game like in 2010. But most Americans watch the Olympics for people they've never heard of anyway. Hardcore hockey fans might stay away. But that number is relatively small.

 

[kurt]

For example, athletes competing at IAAF events during their season make their money from those events (only soem get paid for just competing) but they don't get paid for competing at their premier event, the IAAF World Championships. The price money there is fairly big already plus WR bonuses. At the Olympics, national OCs take care of performance bonuses (ie. medals). The cost of Olympics would go through the roof if tehy paid every athlete. They already get free housing and food.

I'm not asking for anything to go "through the roof". I just think, for virtually all things that have value and earn revenue, the workers that are responsible for creating that value should be sharing that revenue with organizers.

 

[Nino33]

The context that anything averaging 21 million viewers on cable television is very, very good?

You decided it's not by comparing television broadcast numbers to the population as a whole, which is asinine.

The context was how much American "care"
So they care as much as they do about Big Bang Theory and NCIS (and far less than they did about American Idol); if you want to act like that's a big deal and shows how much American care about the Olympics, go ahead

I don't believe that my comments were asinine, but I do believe that thinking 1 out of 10 adults means a lot is asinine

 

[Nino33]

Viewership will tank in Canada. But I doubt it takes much of a hit in the US and Europe. Maybe ou won't get 30 million American viewers for the gold medal game like in 2010. But most Americans watch the Olympics for people they've never heard of anyway. Hardcore hockey fans might stay away. But that number is relatively small.

In 2010 it was in prime time, and the US was in the gold medal game


Your saying "most Americans watch the Olympics for people they've never heard of anyway" shows me you don't know what you're talking about....American Olympic coverage shows Americans and that's pretty much it, and tells their whole life story (while other nations are competing); if the Americans aren't winning medals it's like the event doesn't exist; for hockey, if the Americans aren't in the medal round, the only hope is hardcore hockey fans

You're showing pretty clearly you know nothing about US TV watching habits

 

[Nino33]

Yes compared to breathing the Olympics are not popular. Compare to other sporting events however. Only the super bowl beats it. As NBC showed by dropping its matters enough to drop $4 billion on.

Actually in 2014 the Sunday Night NFL regular season telecasts averaged 21.3 million viewers (despite the most-lopsided games in the history of the NBC primetime package)

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The context was how much American "care"

"Care" compared to what, exactly?

Also, your "9 in 10" don't care is incorrect: 1) because the 21 million average takes into account people who only watch part of it (applicable to an event that switches often between different events) and 2) just because a person isn't actively wathing the Olympics does not mean they do not care- for example, they may not watch, but will still check the results online.

Actually in 2014 the Sunday Night NFL regular season telecasts averaged 21.3 million viewers (despite the most-lopsided games in the history of the NBC primetime package)

Do you not understand how good this is?

For 3-4 hours a night, every night, for two weeks, NBC was able to average the equivalent of the most watched regular season NFL games.

It's the same thing for the most watched cable television shows- the ratings of the best 30 to hour long program, but 3-4 hours a night for two weeks.

 

[Nino33]

"Care" compared to what, exactly?

Care enough to complain/be unhappy if NHL players are in the Olympics

Also, your "9 in 10" don't care is incorrect: 1) because the 21 million average takes into account people who only watch part of it (applicable to an event that switches often between different events) and 2) just because a person isn't actively wathing the Olympics does not mean they do not care- for example, they may not watch, but will still check the results online.

Same could be said about Big Bang Theory, NCIS and NFL Sunday Night Football

Do you not understand how good this is?

I get it, it's "good" for" TV but the vast majority of adults in North America are NOT watching TV every night

Some posters are trying to explain to me (you being one of them) how important the Olympics are, and how bad the NHL is for not stopping their business and paying for their players to risk injury because the Olympics are so important and because the Olympics are so important Americans are going to care that NHL players aren't there.....and I'm saying they don't (and if it turns out there's no NHL players, I'm saying few will care)

The Olympics are about as important as a "sit com" or a regular season football game (and I think more Americans care about Big Bang Theory and NFL football than the Olympics)



The idea that NHL players might not play in the Olympics has been around for awhile now...if those trying to convince me were right, they'd easily be able to link to multiple news stories about the many outraged Americans over this possibility (good luck trying to do so)

 

[Xokkeu]

In 2010 it was in prime time, and the US was in the gold medal game


Your saying "most Americans watch the Olympics for people they've never heard of anyway" shows me you don't know what you're talking about....American Olympic coverage shows Americans and that's pretty much it, and tells their whole life story (while other nations are competing); if the Americans aren't winning medals it's like the event doesn't exist; for hockey, if the Americans aren't in the medal round, the only hope is hardcore hockey fans

You're showing pretty clearly you know nothing about US TV watching habits

The majority of Olympic athletes are unknown to US audiences because they don't follow the sports. So unless it's somebody like Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt, NBC has to drum up a storyline about them. Yet people still watch.

But sure it's irrelevant because every human being on earth isn't watching.

 

[Xokkeu]

The context was how much American "care"
So they care as much as they do about Big Bang Theory and NCIS (and far less than they did about American Idol); if you want to act like that's a big deal and shows how much American care about the Olympics, go ahead

I don't believe that my comments were asinine, but I do believe that thinking 1 out of 10 adults means a lot is asinine

You just basically said the Olympics are on par with some of the most watched programming on tv and yet they don't matter. How does that even compute?

 

[jj cale]

Viewership will tank in Canada. But I doubt it takes much of a hit in the US and Europe. Maybe ou won't get 30 million American viewers for the gold medal game like in 2010. But most Americans watch the Olympics for people they've never heard of anyway. Hardcore hockey fans might stay away. But that number is relatively small.

Well, time of games is certainly going to affect ratings for hockey in the U.S but you are right in that the bite of no nhl'ers won't affect it much.

And yeah,business as usual for olympic hockey in europe as their head is always in nirvana when it comes to anything olympics.

And I think we are both spot on that ratings are going to be a disaster in Canada, I doubt the NHL is going, the writing seems to be on the wall.

 

[Nino33]

You just basically said the Olympics are on par with some of the most watched programming on tv and yet they don't matter. How does that even compute?

It computes because TV shows don't matter, they're a meaningless diversion that a small fraction of adults pay attention to

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Care enough to complain/be unhappy if NHL players are in the Olympics

Oh, sure, the people who care enough about the Olympics to think the NHL not going is a big deal is fairly slim because the NHL itself is not that popular.

The Olympics themselves are very popular.

Same could be said about Big Bang Theory, NCIS and NFL Sunday Night Football

And?

I'm pointing out you fundamentally misunderstood the statistics you are attempting to argue against.

(Also, no, you can't say the same thing about the Big Bang Theory, being a 22 minute self-contained sit com, against an Olympics quickly switching between different events)

I get it, it's "good" for" TV but the vast majority of adults in North America are NOT watching TV every night

And nobody said otherwise.

This isn't the same as claiming no one cares about the Olympics.

Some posters are trying to explain to me (you being one of them) how important the Olympics are, and how bad the NHL is for not stopping their business and paying for their players to risk injury because the Olympics are so important and because the Olympics are so important Americans are going to care that NHL players aren't there.....and I'm saying they don't (and if it turns out there's no NHL players, I'm saying few will care)

I never argued any of that- and I only have to say this because you directly accused me of such.

I only jumped in because you claimed that most Americans don't care about the Olympics- which is laughably untrue.

I think the problem here is that you are extrapolating your own opinions and attitudes (having admitted to not watching television/owning cable) to ~320 million people in a different country, as seen here:

It computes because TV shows don't matter, they're a meaningless diversion that a small fraction of adults pay attention to

The Olympics are about as important as a "sit com" or a regular season football game (and I think more Americans care about Big Bang Theory and NFL football than the Olympics)

That's not true: you're comparing a weekly 30 minute television show, in prime time, to 3-4 hours, nightly, oft tape delayed, for two weeks every 4 years.

Do you think the Big Bang Theory could bring in 19 million (it's highest rated season) per episode if it aired 3-4 hours a night?

 

[Nino33]

I only jumped in because you claimed that most Americans don't care about the Olympics- which is laughably untrue.

The whole context is in regards to NHL participation (read the thread title!), and the argument was that Americans care enough that the NHL should participate

I'm not trying to convince you that Americans don't care at all about the Olympics, I was saying to the NHL the care is irrelevant/meaningless

Xokkeu is the main one trying to show the Olympics matter so much the NHL should participate (and was doing the same in this thread too http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2131617&page=9), that's why television viewership numbers came up

It seems to me you "jumped in" without knowing what was being discussed, and I lumped you in with the side you jumped in on...again, read the thread title (it's not about whether the Olympics matter/whether Americans care enough about the Olympics to watch it on TV)

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Actually, I'm arguing against this post:

In 2014 there were roughly 245 million US persons age 18 and older...averaging 21 million viewers means typically 91% of US adults were NOT watching the Olympics; the Sochi Olympics weren't watched by many more people than popular TV shows that year

I figured out a long time ago that so called "popular shows" like American Idol (which at its peak had over 30 million average viewers) may be considered "popular" but in reality the vast majority is NOT paying attention

Regarding the Sochi Olympics, when 9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention, that doesn't show a lot of "care" IMO; we'll just have to agree to disagree

I don't have cable myself and don't watch TV; I'm part of the vast majority of North American adults that at any given time is NOT watching anything on TV

Thanks for the discussion

If you wish to move back from the claims in the post that have been disputed, be my guest.

And it's fair to say that I didn't read the discussion closely enough; OTOH, it's also fair to point out that the nature of this board allows for many topics to develop within threads (for example: TV ratings and the general popularity of the Olympics in a thread about Olympic participation).

 

[Nino33]

There's nothing to "move back from" for me (and what I posted is factually correct); Xokkeu posted TV numbers to support his view that the NHL should shut down for the Olympics, and I showed him the TV numbers aren't that big a deal/don't support the idea that the NHL should shut down

The only person talking about TV ratings and the general popularity of the Olympics was you (the topic didn't develop in the thread, you interjected it.....all previous conversation, including in the other thread, connected to NHL participation)

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

There's nothing to "move back from" for me (and what I posted is factually correct); Xokkeu posted TV numbers to support his view that the NHL should shut down for the Olympics, and I showed him the TV numbers aren't that big a deal/don't support the idea that the NHL should shut down

"9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention"

You think this is an accurate portrayal of American consumption of the Olympics? 90% of adults are flat out not paying attention?

What absolute rubbish.

The only person talking about TV ratings and the general popularity of the Olympics was you (the topic didn't develop in the thread, you interjected it.....all previous conversation, including in the other thread, connected to NHL participation)

The post I quoted above was posted by you, in response to Xokkeu, before I posted anything in this thread, in which you use the 21 million viewer average to conclude that "9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention".

Are you getting me and Xokkeu mixed up?

Here's the conversation for reference:

Are you talking about Olympic hockey? Because I can guarantee you Americans care a whole lot more about the Olympics than the NHL.

So here you just meant the majority of the players have the Stanley Cup as #1? http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123822737&postcount=210

You think the millions of fans going to games every year (and the games on TV) says less about caring than following a tournament every 4 years? I don't
If the American team's not in the medal round, you think many Americans would bother watching? I don't

What makes you such an expert that you can guarantee your opinion is correct?

Sorry but your ludicrous statement that the Olympics don't matter to North Americans was either poorly worded or just wrong.

You didn't respond to anything I actually said, not sure why...

I'm not the one guaranteeing my opinions are correct, or calling the opinions of others ludicrous (you seem pretty bitter/argumentative and unable to actually support your views)

242 million Americans watched at least some of the Sochi Olympics. That's 70% of the population.

NBC averaged 21 million viewers.

NBC paid $4 billion dollars for four Olympics.


So again. Either you worded your statement wrong, or you're just wrong that North Americans don't care about the Olympics.

In 2014 there were roughly 245 million US persons age 18 and older...averaging 21 million viewers means typically 91% of US adults were NOT watching the Olympics; the Sochi Olympics weren't watched by many more people than popular TV shows that year

I figured out a long time ago that so called "popular shows" like American Idol (which at its peak had over 30 million average viewers) may be considered "popular" but in reality the vast majority is NOT paying attention

Regarding the Sochi Olympics, when 9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention, that doesn't show a lot of "care" IMO; we'll just have to agree to disagree

I don't have cable myself and don't watch TV; I'm part of the vast majority of North American adults that at any given time is NOT watching anything on TV

Thanks for the discussion

 

[Nino33]

No, I'm not getting you two mixed up

If I was arguing about "TV ratings and the general popularity of the Olympics" you'd have a point, but I wasn't (no one was!)

I was pointing out that NHL participation would not matter to Americans, and used TV numbers in response to Xokkeu's post (which noted that 1 out of 10 watched on average and 242 million Americans watched at least some of the Sochi Olympics!); again, the whole point was regarding NHL participation

What's "absolute rubbish" is you trying to claim I was arguing something I wasn't

 

[Xokkeu]

The whole context is in regards to NHL participation (read the thread title!), and the argument was that Americans care enough that the NHL should participate

I'm not trying to convince you that Americans don't care at all about the Olympics, I was saying to the NHL the care is irrelevant/meaningless

Xokkeu is the main one trying to show the Olympics matter so much the NHL should participate (and was doing the same in this thread too http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2131617&page=9), that's why television viewership numbers came up

It seems to me you "jumped in" without knowing what was being discussed, and I lumped you in with the side you jumped in on...again, read the thread title (it's not about whether the Olympics matter/whether Americans care enough about the Olympics to watch it on TV)

You said the Olympics don't matter. I asked you if you were trying to specify if you meant only Olympic hockey doesn't matter, you proceeded to say most Americans don't watch the Olympics at all. I've never once written that the "Olympics matter so much that the NHL should participate." I asked you several times if you intended to say the Olympics don't matter and you continued to push that argument, instead of saying that NHL participation in the Olympics is basically irrelevant to their popularity, which is an entirely different argument. I'm starting to wonder if you even read what's being written. Some Olympic hockey games will get higher ratings in the US than the NHL regular season, with or without NHL players, simply because it's the Olympics.

 

[Xokkeu]

Well, time of games is certainly going to affect ratings for hockey in the U.S but you are right in that the bite of no nhl'ers won't affect it much.

And yeah,business as usual for olympic hockey in europe as their head is always in nirvana when it comes to anything olympics.

And I think we are both spot on that ratings are going to be a disaster in Canada, I doubt the NHL is going, the writing seems to be on the wall.

The time zone is a killer. If it's a USA-Canada final somehow, best case I guess they start the game at noon and that's only a 9pm eastern start. But of course then it's 3am in Europe.

 

[Xokkeu]

It computes because TV shows don't matter, they're a meaningless diversion that a small fraction of adults pay attention to

What does matter?

 

[Nino33]

I honestly thought you two understood the discussion was about NHL participation


Xokkeu - if you read the conversation quoted above you'll notice I pointed out you didn't answer my questions (that all related to NHL participation), I guess so you could push your agenda of the importance of the Olympics


Sorry you two, I never imagined you didn't understand given it was a hockey site and the thread titles referenced NHL participation that that was what was being discussed

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

No, I'm not getting you two mixed up

Really? Because Xokkeu is very clearly arguing the same thing I am.

But whatever.

Sorry you two, I never imagined you didn't understand given it was a hockey site and the thread titles referenced NHL participation that that was what was being discussed

In 2014 there were roughly 245 million US persons age 18 and older...averaging 21 million viewers means typically 91% of US adults were NOT watching the Olympics; the Sochi Olympics weren't watched by many more people than popular TV shows that year

I figured out a long time ago that so called "popular shows" like American Idol (which at its peak had over 30 million average viewers) may be considered "popular" but in reality the vast majority is NOT paying attention

Regarding the Sochi Olympics, when 9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention, that doesn't show a lot of "care" IMO; we'll just have to agree to disagree

I don't have cable myself and don't watch TV; I'm part of the vast majority of North American adults that at any given time is NOT watching anything on TV

Thanks for the discussion

This will be my final post on this topic, so I strongly advise you to read that, even in the context of the conversation it was in, and see why two people completely misunderstood what you were saying- and no, trying to claim that I (won't speak for Xokkeu) should have intrinsically known what you were talking about won't cut it. I am not a mind reader on Tuesdays.

 

[Nino33]

It's a hockey site, and a thread about NHL participation (the second such thread too).....it's not my fault that you two don't understand context/relevance